*Why* Do You Use the DAW You Use?

[nerol1st]

 

In a related Cubase question, how many Cubase folks got into the program because of cracks? I've known a few PC guys with the program, and in my experience, not one had paid for the app.

 

 

I paid for it. Even if I used a PC I would still pay for it.

[EnemyofSilence]

I've been using Software-based sequencing (then synced to tape) since 1990 or so. First with Powertracks, then with Calkwalk Pro 2. I stayed with Cakewalk

[TBush]

Now on Logic Studio 8. They've simplified a bunch of stuff that should've been simple to begin with, but left the depth for those of us who need it. And while Sound Diver's been left behind by Apple, there's plenty to make up for it. I've added the Redmatica bundle to the equation, and after 20+ years sampling is finally FUN. I use Live 7 as well, and a select few plug-ins. And multiple control surfaces distributed around my studio so I can run things from anywhere - although now with Leopards 'Spaces', I can just move my laptop around with me and see as well as control my DAW machine from anywhere wirelessly (my Tranzport is feeling left out). While I've run across a couple minor bugs in 8, they're are no show-stoppers - nothing that's ever made me crash or lose work (hell, my last crash log from Logic is v7 and dated Jan 21, 2007. Not bad. I've never had to call support. One of the best things about Sonar was their user forum - it was a wealth of information. Thankfully I found Sonikmatter - a great resource, if a bit intimidating at first. If ya wanna bitch, go elsewhere. If ya want an answer, it's the place to go. This week I added a Mini as a Logic Node. My nearly 6 year old G4 MDD is still the main machine, UAD and all. 54 channels of Audio I/O and 48 Midi ports (768 channels). Turned out to be a solid choice all around. I can do whatever I need to, and do it quickly. The technology is now transparent! So that's, um, why!

 

Great post- re-affirms my probable next move to Mac/Logic when my current Windows/Logic system becomes obsolete...

[gappie]

ive been using SAW for some years now. the reason i started to use it is because at that time it sounded better to my ears (but maybe i fooled myself.. who cares, it are my ears), and i enjoyed the interface. maybe a steep learning curve but so logical to me. works nice with my rme fireface. havent looked into any other software since then. so i dont know what is out there nowadays.. lol, guess that is why i started to read this thread..

[Roy Brooks]

I have a Yamaha AW1600. I use it because it is the one I have.

[Mark L]

What's a DAW?

 

Is it something to do with recording on a computer?

 

If so, I haven't got one. Don't really understand computer recording

[maybeyes2]

I started using cubase over the last few months. I find it works quite well for what I want to do and I have gotten decent at using it. Originally I used Kristal and then Reaper for a bit. I think my main reason for going to cubase is that a buddy of mine uses that program for recording and I plan on doing some stuff with him. In light of that cubase becomes the equalizer and will allow me to mix and overdub more effectively at home.

 

I also have sonor - have used it a bit and will continue to work with it to get to know it a little better. I would probably use the other software for my own curiosity to see how something sounds. I will say that Reaper and Kristal are pretty intuitive, but so is cubase. Can't really comment on sonor because I have not worked with it enough.

 

BTW, most of the stuff I do is not synth driven, but I am not averse to using a drum machine and patching in the drums later on as an overdub.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

What's a DAW? Is it something to do with recording on a computer? If so, I haven't got one. Don't really understand computer recording

 

 

Oh boy...

[Mark L]

Oh boy...

 

Like I said:

 

I had a look at a webpage which attempts to explain to a complete noob how Cubase works. It might have been written in Mandarin Chinese for all I understood of it

 

I think I'll cling for dear life to my el-cheapo 16-track.....

[franknputer]

DAW = Digital Attention Waster.

[Ernest Buckley]

Saul,

When I made the switch I felt completely out of my element which is what most of us feel but after a while, like a major session, you start to "get it" and you realize the power and potential of a DAW. Resistance, my friend, is as they say, futile.

 

You will eventually come to the dark side...

EB

[Mark L]

Saul, When I made the switch I felt completely out of my element which is what most of us feel but after a while, like a major session, you start to "get it" and you realize the power and potential of a DAW. Resistance, my friend, is as they say, futile. You will eventually come to the dark side... EB

 

I'd love to come over to the dark side, Ernest, I really would. But I have visions of getting lost, as one would in a Tolkein-esque forest. A kind of digital Mirkwood, if you will

 

Where would one start? Is Cubase a good DAW or am I over-reaching myself?

 

By the way, a new and more powerful laptop is definitely on the cards whether I sell my soul to the digital whore or not....

 

Toodles

 

Saul

[Ernest Buckley]

When deciding on a DAW, I say download all of them and work with each. You have to see which one flows best with you. I went with DP because everyone I work with has it. Theres nothing wrong with tape machines but they do have their limits as you know.

[UstadKhanAli]

Saul, try a few DAWs and see if they work for you. If it ain't working for you, then use something else. While DAWs are almost ubiquitous with recording nowadays, it's not the only game in town, and for some people, not the best choice. Make sure it works for you, and not just because "everyone else is doing it."

[Mark L]

When deciding on a DAW, I say download all of them and work with each

 

Bloody hell, mate, I'm not made of money, you know!!

[Mind Riot]

I only just recently made the switch from stand alone multitrack recorders to PC daws, and I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It does take some learning but it's so worth it, I feel like all these doors have opened for my creativity now. Plugins are so much easier to work with than hardware effects, and even some of the free ones are just outstanding.

 

I built my PC for this a couple months ago and bought an E-mu 1616 PCI interface. The interface came with a bunch of bundled stuff, and I liked the look and layout of Sonar LE the best out of all of them so I started learning that.

 

Sonar LE caused my computer to lock up with CPU spikes for ten minutes at a time with no tracks recorded and nothing running, during which I couldn't even open task manager or move the mouse. I e-mailed Cakewalk, but it took them a week and a half or so to respond, and by then I had discovered Reaper. They eventually did get back to me with a form letter with no explanation to load a bundled session into the software mixer that comes with the E-mu, and it seemed to work, but I had no way of knowing if the problem would come up again or what caused it.

 

I got hooked on Reaper about two hours after starting to use it, and I still love it. It's stable, fast, efficient, and very powerful for working with audio (perhaps at the expense of the MIDI side of things) which suits me fine as I don't do any MIDI. Plus it's inexpensive, skinnable, and comes with some great bundled plugs, and the forum and developer support are really special.

 

Personally I think all the current crop of daws are very capable so it just becomes about which one feels best to you to work with, and for me there's a lot about Reaper that I find attractive and it's just fun to use. I really liked the look of Sonar LE and would have used it if it had worked and probably upgraded to another CakeWalk product later, but I sure am glad I found Reaper because I like almost everything about it.

 

So I'm kinda chiming in on moving from stand alone recorders to software daws as well as answering the original question of the thread here in one shot.

[rasputin1963]

Bloody hell, mate, I'm not made of money, you know!!

 

 

You probably will eventually give DAWs a go.... Might as well dive into one of the more dense and powerful ones, like CUBASE or SONAR.

 

I listened to every song featured on your website, and I'm wondering how a DAW will influence your work and work-style.

 

It would be like giving Ernest Hemingway a computerized word processing program. Would a word processor have saved him time? Probably not, as he would've used the new extra freedoms to tweak and tweak and tweak every sentence until it was perfect.

 

One thing DAWs do is make you start visualizing your arrangements more... you'll start thinking in terms of (visual) waveforms, visualized measures/scores, MIDI grids, and so forth. This may, or may not, be a blessing, depending on how you uniquely process your music within yer noggin.

 

The people who benefit most from DAWs, I suspect, are those folks who are into nonlinear, artsy, experimental and weird music-making. There are infinite capabilities for making some REALLY weird sounds, if that is your particular turn-on [and it sometimes is mine, but it seems I always come back to a certain traditionality and "naturalness"]

 

And someone like you who writes fine, understandable, melodic, hook-y, three-minute gems, may have a different experience within a DAW.

 

You'll definitely like the ability to add on no limit of backup vocals. I suspect you would have fun creating various kinds of reverb environments. You'll be able to give your guitar all manner of sonic/FX treatments, the excellent drum sequencing you've been doing will explode with further possibilities....

 

Making things blend, crossfade and change over time, using envelopes, is a very big plus feature of DAWs.

 

Then, on the other hand, under a DAW's influence your style may totally change, and you may start sounding like Autechre. [And frankly, amigo, let's hope not].

 

A DAW is kind of like a child's huge playroom filled with toys, and the kid is just wide-eyed with excitement about the possibilities contained therein... Learning how to narrow down my purpose and stay on task is always a challenge for me within a DAW.

 

DAWs are also amazing didactic tools.... just playing around with them, you'll learn much more about audio in general...

 

As you may have read, all of us here are salivating to get our paws on that new MELODYNE toy, out this Fall, which allows you to tweak individual pitches within a digitally-recorded chord!! O, will wonders ne'er cease?

[Ernest Buckley]

 

Bloody hell, mate, I'm not made of money, you know!!

 

 

Saul, You can download them for free but you can`t save the files. I did this for PT LE and LIVE. I still use DP though.

[Straycatstrat]

Short answer:

 

I use Reaper because I'm a bloody commie and anarchist (Mo.-Fr. commie and anarchist on weekends...erm...ok, I'm a ultra-right wing conservative on mondays or right after waking up). It's a veeeery fair offer, has incredible features and support and using it is fun.

 

Loooooong answer:

 

Important things first:

 

Reaper is in parts (routing->mixing, handling audio in general) ahead of the competition, on par in other parts and a bit inferior only in the MIDI department for me. YMMV. Once having unlearned my old DAW, I found Reaper's paradigms refreshingly different and thought out well. It's unsurpassed lightweight and efficient and hence the only real alternative for my ancient computer while it is capable of utilizing *all* of my next computer better than the competitiors.

 

You can stop reading now if you want, here's the whole, already known story in my words:

I use Reaper because Slimeberg pissed me off by not really listening to their user's demands and bug reports while they paid increasingly close attention to the contents of my wallet. The DAW compartment in my wallet fills up only at a certain speed and they had their greedy fingers in it faster than the money grows back in. That's why I ditched their upgrade policy for quite some years and when I was growing out of my old version, I looked for alternatives.

 

Then someone mentioned Reaper and without knowing anything about it and thinking "yet another ambitioned shareware project leading to a glorious nothing", I tried it and was totally pissed off. While the feature list was attracting me, I found that it had a steep unlearning curve for me as Moobase (since 1990!) user since it goes its own alternative way in many aspects.

 

But seeing how the main developer is answering really dumb n00b questions in the forums himself while implementing requested features and fixing bugs within days, sometimes hours plus the extremely helpful and knowledgeable user base was keeping me from dragging it into the recycle bin.

 

Now I'm extremely happy that I took the time and efforts to deal with it. I'm an "amateur" with "pro" demands and the only difference between "pro" and "amateur" is the license fee you pay for Reaper. Speaking of paying, Reaper gave me a chance to prove my honesty on a voluntary basis and was not first forcing me to pay and then punishing me for paying while checking my honesty over and over again. (I'm talking about multiple instances of honesty-check routines in hard- and software, eating up my patience and CPU despite they should have learned that I'm a good guy in all these years)

 

It's also the first example I found where the "community driven" and mild "crowdsourcing" aspects lead to real benefits for both parties. Example: True, Reaper has no paid support department but yet it has an extremely high quality and fast support. That's because the developers prove that they're willing to support every single dumbass in the community every day and so the community has no objections to do the same. There are more feature requests than the few developers could ever do, so they implemented tools that give users with programming skills a way to implement additional tools and functions for themselves and the non-coding users. The development doesn't have to take the costs and risk to employ more developers and in turn, users may get *their* features much faster than anywhere else, no matter how nonsense these features may appear to other users. The developers share their knowledge as much as they can and so do the users and so on. Both parties do their best to generate the added value *you* benefit from. There's a general sensation of mutual fairness in Reaper.

 

It has all the advantages of the free software movement without the drawbacks and implications like the impossibility to implement proprietary technology in a competitive way - for instance, they licensed the new Elastique 2 algorithms before all other DAW makers and they just put it in silently into the then current sub-revision when the deal was made. Certain other DAW makers would have made a new major release with double-page ads and an upgrade fee that would buy you the big Reaper license.

 

Reaper doesn't have a marketing department as well. It has fanboys and evangelists spreading the word (often annoying for users of other DAWs and hence achieving the opposite). But this is not all a result of brainwashing or personality cult, these guys are just too happy having found something that seems to be as fair as it gets while working extremely well. See above. But "no marketing department" means also "no marketing-driven BS bingo decision-making comittees". It's all a direct deal between you and the makers and your complaints and wishes are not being filtered by outer office secretaries.

 

And before you get pissed off by all the communism and politics jabber here: Yes, Reaper is also only one of many DAWs you pay for and use it and that's about it if you want. I wouldn't admire its surrounding aspects if it wouldn't be an excellent DAW in first place but there are other excellent DAWs with a good user treatment, direct contact to developers and a great community and with a long history, making them more mature than 2yr old Reaper in some parts.

 

[rrrredrvr]

Interesting question, and asking myself the same question and thus I found this thread.

 

I bought a Mackie Onyx Satellite w/Tracktion II a while back to be able to do recordings of our band rehearsals (using just two mics or tracks). It works reasonably well, but I've since discovered that its a lot faster/easier to just use a recording adapter for my iPod at rehearsal, and then import that WAV file into Tracktion II later if there's some editing I want to do). At the time I bought it, I was ignorant as to all the hardware and software choices...the price and feature list of the Satellite/Tracktion offering seemed right.

 

Now, most the 8 members of our band would like to do some collaborative creative recording. Only 3 of us already have something, and of course, it doesn't appear to be compatible. Two others have and MBox and Pro Tools LE, and I don't think we're compatible for file transfers. When we recorded a demo with a local engineer, he used Pro Tools and the process seemed easy enough (except for a few MacBook crashes during recording).

 

I recently switched from a Windows laptop to a MacBook, so now a I also have Garage Band available, but have not tried using it yet....

 

So now the question is what should we all adopt? Cost is the biggest issue, and then compatibility, and performance issues such as latency, computer requirements, etc. Pro Tools seems to be a standard, but its expensive and I also see a lot of posts about lots of problems with it?

 

So, now, I have a couple questions for this group....First, what do you recommend for us to all consider to be able to share collaborative files and end up with an easily edited multi-track recording???

 

Does anyone know if there's a way I can run Pro Tools with the Mackie Onyx Satellite (using a MacBook)?

 

Does anyone know if there's an easy way to convert or import/export either Tracktion II files to Pro Tools, or Pro Tools files to Tracktion II??

 

And what about Garage Band??? Will that work with Mackie Onyx Satellite, AND M-Boxes??? And, are there translators between GB and PT or Tracktion??

 

Looking for the guidance of experience.....thanks in advance.

 

Myles

Freedom Blvd (Aptos CA)

[D Charles]

Well, I went reel to reel, Atari ST with Dr T, then locked that to ADAT. I really hated finishing a song and then going to another and then deciding I needed to tweak an old mix which is why DAW was so appealing.

 

I bought a real cheap recording software (think it was from the band in a box people) just to convince myself that the computer could work, then got Cakewalk PA 9. Made some good recordings with that, then upgraded to Sonar 4 and now, Sonar 6 Producer.

 

I still use it mainly as a tape recorder but it's really cool sometimes to grab that one bass guitar note that's a tad late and scoot it up while retaining the rest of the performance intact. Also the plugs that come with Sonar Producer are fantastic. The Sonitus compressor is one of the coolest tools I've used hardware or software. Also that perfect space reverb is tasty.

 

Bottom line; if I've mixed a song and then recorded a couple more and need to go back to the first one and raise the lead vox a db or two and have the rest of the mix exactly as it first was saved, then that's a couple minutes out of my life instead of repatching effects, and finding eq's and levels for all recorded channels.

[amplayer]

Logic is my most-used DAW out of DP, Logic, and Live.

However, Logic has a lot of problems also. Most notably, for complicated MIDI setups, it is the most brain-dead DAW I have.

If you primarily write songs and use mostly audio tracks and loops and single instances of softsynths (like a piano, EP, etc), then Logic is a great choice.

If you're writing for virtual orchestras, DP is MUCH better IMHO because it has much better support for arbitrary MIDI data and also has nicer organization in the form of much better track folders.

If you primarily like to improvise and use loops, then Live is better than either DP or Logic.

 

 

Great post- re-affirms my probable next move to Mac/Logic when my current Windows/Logic system becomes obsolete...

 

[panthalassa]

 

Logic is my most-used DAW out of DP, Logic, and Live. However, Logic has a lot of problems also. Most notably, for complicated MIDI setups, it is the most brain-dead DAW I have. If you primarily write songs and use mostly audio tracks and loops and single instances of softsynths (like a piano, EP, etc), then Logic is a great choice. If you're writing for virtual orchestras, DP is MUCH better IMHO because it has much better support for arbitrary MIDI data and also has nicer organization in the form of much better track folders. If you primarily like to improvise and use loops, then Live is better than either DP or Logic.

 

Disclosure:

 

It's funny, even though I record vocals, bass and guitar, I structure everything around Reason, which works best with . . . Ableton Live. Since that whole thread about Logic 8 a few months ago when I was caught up in the release hype, I've used it on a number of occasions, but I always go back to Live and Reason for their compatibility.

 

On a personal note, I bought Pro Tools a few years ago and it mostly sat. Not that I didn't try; in fact it was quite an education working my way through the Berklee Press book, which is very well-written. P.T. was just cumbersome. Well, both Reason and Live were included in the envelope that came with the original Mbox, and I just gravitated to those. I pored over articles and books about both programs, and ended up not only using Live for recording, but I use it with my bands to fire off samples and backing tracks.

 

Even more amazing is the fact that that program singlehandedly got me back to DJing, which is something I flirted with in junior high school before I decided to dedicate my life to practicing a "real" instrument, whatever that is. Add to that Reason's instrumental power, and I'm able to do things fast.

 

Enter Logic, which I bought because I wanted the plug-ins and sample editing. Once again, I've got a lot of homework to do! Even though it's really powerful, Logic, in the words of Tommy Coster Jr. at the San Francisco Propellerheads Producer's Conference this past Saturday "scares the crap out of me." Not the concepts and tools themselves, but having to get used to a whole new workflow. Again.

 

After this orgy of DAW-buying, the financial and educational reality is catching up with me. I love to learn, but I need to work, and I've already found two programs that I can use comfortably. What will I do in the future? Well, since I have Logic, I will continue to find what I like best in Live and learn the Logic counterparts. It can't be that hard, but it most likely will be annoying - and rewarding in the long run. As for Pro Tools . . . it's the industry standard, right? So even though it does not yet work with Leopard, I may upgrade once that becomes available, but it might be a real waste of money for me.

 

So that's it for my DAW saga, and I didn't even mention the Mbox 2 Pro (bought it) Apogee Duet (bought it, but beware of the fact that it works HORRIBLY with Aggregate Devices, depending on the program) and my latest acquisition, Melodyne (honestly, heroin's almost less addictive than this stuff:eek:)

[nice keetee]

I only just recently made the switch from stand alone multitrack recorders to PC daws, and I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It does take some learning but it's so worth it, I feel like all these doors have opened for my creativity now. Plugins are so much easier to work with than hardware effects, and even some of the free ones are just outstanding. I built my PC for this a couple months ago and bought an E-mu 1616 PCI interface. The interface came with a bunch of bundled stuff, and I liked the look and layout of Sonar LE the best out of all of them so I started learning that. Sonar LE caused my computer to lock up with CPU spikes for ten minutes at a time with no tracks recorded and nothing running, during which I couldn't even open task manager or move the mouse. I e-mailed Cakewalk, but it took them a week and a half or so to respond, and by then I had discovered Reaper. They eventually did get back to me with a form letter with no explanation to load a bundled session into the software mixer that comes with the E-mu, and it seemed to work, but I had no way of knowing if the problem would come up again or what caused it. I got hooked on Reaper about two hours after starting to use it, and I still love it. It's stable, fast, efficient, and very powerful for working with audio (perhaps at the expense of the MIDI side of things) which suits me fine as I don't do any MIDI. Plus it's inexpensive, skinnable, and comes with some great bundled plugs, and the forum and developer support are really special. Personally I think all the current crop of daws are very capable so it just becomes about which one feels best to you to work with, and for me there's a lot about Reaper that I find attractive and it's just fun to use. I really liked the look of Sonar LE and would have used it if it had worked and probably upgraded to another CakeWalk product later, but I sure am glad I found Reaper because I like almost everything about it. So I'm kinda chiming in on moving from stand alone recorders to software daws as well as answering the original question of the thread here in one shot.

 

I use Reaper...too...

[Rabid]

I walked into a music store one day and asked for sequencing software, windows based, and better than the DOS programs (Personnel Composer) I had been using. He sold me a copy of Cakewalk. Since then my roving eye has lead me to flings with Logic, Acid, FL, Orion, Reason, Live and many others but I always end up coming back to Cakewalk