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  • IEM love em or hate em

    So what do you guys think.
    "you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park"

  • #2
    Both love 'em and hate 'em. They can be a PITA to deal with but when you get them right and they sound great, they sound GREAT.

    And not coming home with my ears ringing after a gig is worth it all for it.

    Donald Trump: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

    RobRoy: "There is an "honest grit" to his lying."

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    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment
      There is no doubt in my mind that they can be good. I just left a band that used them. I don't think 90 dollar shures with foam tips are the way to enjoy the experience. I used a floor monitor for the first show. I yielded to the when in Rome deal, and went on down the road. I was an extra guy on the last season of a long running band. We parted on good terms and they get bigger splits in a skinny market. I did a jam night last week with some guys I know at a local roadhouse. Its worked before. lol.

  • #3
    As long as there's a good limiter on the feed, I'm fine with them.
    **********

    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
    - George Carlin

    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment
      This system had seen better days , mono mix, with the bal controlling mix of vocals to music,,, and a real sensitive volume on the wireless pack. I cold see how a mistake could be a problem.

  • #4
    I’ve only used molded ear buds so I can really say anything about just using foam buds. Except I can’t imagine there would be enough low end. Although my band generally plays loud enough that I still get plenty of low end leaking in from the FOH. If you are playing in a loud environment, the isolation you get from
    molded buds is a must IMO. If it’s a low volume background music kinda gig, foam buds might be fine.

    Yes a limiter is a must. I use a system where we all control our own mix from our own tablets. So it’s nice to have that control right there.

    If you’re going to use them quite a bit I would say molded buds are the way to go. I bought mine from Ultimate Ears which are very good and they provide very good service as well. The girls in my band bought theirs from Alien Ears which also seem good and are cheaper. They really like them but obviously I have no way to compare them.

    By the time you get good buds and a wireless setup you’ll be in for quite a bit of cash, but as someone who already suffers some hearing loss from so many years on loud stages, I simply can’t imagine not spending the money to preserve what hearing I have left.
    Donald Trump: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

    RobRoy: "There is an "honest grit" to his lying."

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    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment
      I think you summed it up well, because the low end response was not all that. On the first show I had my roadie/ wife out front. It was heavy on bass, because the buds dont do low end and light on highs, because they handle highs well. I think its not really one of those baby step deals. I think the secret to all of this is to have musicans who really have a concept of a stage mix if you are going to roll your own sound. The concept of if you can hear yourself well , you are too loud will never go away no matter how you are playing the music. The vocals go on top. since they are the main event. It was a three month gig so leaving seems to be the best option.
      Last edited by TIMKEYS; 11-29-2017, 02:47 PM.

  • #5
    They are a game changer if down correctly which almost NO club level musicians do. First of all you need GOOD MOLDED EAR BUDS. We have 6 driver IEMS from a local company in Sanford Fla that is a mile from our office. Cost $720 out the door with tax and they are GREAT! Also, it's absolutely ESSENTIAL that they be STEREO...Which means it takes up 2 Aux's on your console so you have to have a modern console with enough outputs. That said if your IEM send is set up with effects, the soundstage is wide, instruments are panned and everything is EQ's nicely it will be heaven. I believe a couple ambient mics on stage mixed in is also the secret to making everyone feel like they aren't isolated.

    For us, once set up and tweaked vocal fatigue is thing of the past with well set up IEMs.It's a pleasing, consistant experience that maximizes your performance ability. Seriously, once you do this you will NEVER GO BACK to Wedges.
    Last edited by sventvkg; 12-26-2017, 11:22 PM.

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    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment
      This is another good post that is just confirmation that going down the road was the right thing to do. thanks tim

  • #6
    Originally posted by sventvkg View Post
    They are a game changer if down correctly which almost NO club level musicians do. First of all you need GOOD MOLDED EAR BUDS. We have 6 driver IEMS from a local company in Sanford Fla that is a mile from our office. Cost $720 out the door with tax and they are GREAT! Also, it's absolutely ESSENTIAL that they be STEREO...Which means it takes up 2 Aux's on your console so you have to have a modern console with enough outputs. That said if your IEM send is set up with effects, the soundstage is wide, instruments are panned and everything is EQ's nicely it will be heaven. I believe a couple ambient mics on stage mixed in is also the secret to making everyone feel like they aren't isolated.

    For us, once set up and tweaked vocal fatigue is thing of the past with well set up IEMs.It's a pleasing, constant experience that maximizes your performance ability. Seriously, once you do this you will NEVER GO BACK to Wedges.
    Can agree with most of this, although I’ve never found stereo to be essential. More of a personal preference thing, I think. But if you have the available channels then why not try it? But depending on how many instruments you have on stage and how they are mic’d , etc
    Last edited by guido61; 12-26-2017, 07:57 PM.
    Donald Trump: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

    RobRoy: "There is an "honest grit" to his lying."

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    • sventvkg
      sventvkg commented
      Editing a comment
      Have you ever tried stereo? Your ears are in stereo obviously so it’s much more natural things are spaced apart and panned more like real life. Everyone I know that’s tried it about 10 people just from my band alone find it markedly better.

  • #7
    Originally posted by sventvkg View Post
    Have you ever tried stereo? Your ears are in stereo obviously so it’s much more natural things are spaced apart and panned more like real life. Everyone I know that’s tried it about 10 people just from my band alone find it markedly better.
    I have tried stereo---Technically my IEMs ARE in stereo--- But since we don't mic anything in stereo, there's not much of a point. I could pan the guitar a bit to one side and the keys to the other, I suppose? Pan the vocalists a bit? I only put a bit of kick and hi-hat from the drums into my IEMs to begin with as there is plenty of bleed thru from the live kit as it is, so panning the toms is irrelevant.

    I HAVE often thought about running my keys in stereo just mostly so that I can have that nice stereo spread of my patches in my ears, but to do so would require things like suddenly going from a 16 channel to a bigger FOH mixer. Lot of trouble and expense just for that one thing.

    One of the best uses of stereo I've heard described is to put yourself much louder on one side so then you can use the pan pot on your receiver as a virtual "more me" mix. But since we mix ourselves individually from our own tablets, there's not really much need for that.

    I'm sure that for bands that have different mix set ups---maybe a lot more instruments, or everything mic'd in stereo to begin with, or running stereo tracks--that stereo has much more benefit. I was simply offering up that before someone takes the advice about how indispensable a stereo mix is, to make sure they are even really set up to take the best advantage of it.
    Last edited by guido61; 12-28-2017, 02:21 PM.
    Donald Trump: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

    RobRoy: "There is an "honest grit" to his lying."

    Comment


    • sventvkg
      sventvkg commented
      Editing a comment
      Ah yea. We are totally stereo besides obviously vocals and Bass and all The drums are panned like you’d hear them on a recording. My Kemper Rig is spread nice in my ears and we have ambient earthworks mics on each side of the stage blended in so it sounds natural we can hear the room etc. Yes, we have a FOH tech and use About 50 channel on a Soundcraft Impact Console. However even my smalll Trio rig is an X32 rack running stereo, stereo ears etc. Can run 4 piece with our tracks just barely maxing out the board utilizing the aux inputs!

  • #8
    I just went X32 so I guess IEMs are coming at some point.

    Any of you guys have a limiter recipe for the desk? I'm thinking I should be able to get better control squashing the output at the desk than the belt pack, although having a limiter in the belt pack can't possibly hurt.

    I'm thinking of mixing the aux buses with a -15 target and putting a fast soft-knee 8:1 at -10. Then tell folks to set their volume wherever it's comfy..?

    Or maybe I should run closer to 0 dB to give the belt-pack compressor a better shot of kicking in?
    Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

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    • #9
      Here's a tutorial I wrote a while back all about In-Ear Monitoring Systems (IEMs) and Personal Monitoring Systems (PMS). Two halves of the pie, as you can't use one without the other:
      http://musicplayers.com/2011/07/01/i...onitoring-101/
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      • #10
        Originally posted by wesg View Post
        I just went X32 so I guess IEMs are coming at some point.

        Any of you guys have a limiter recipe for the desk? I'm thinking I should be able to get better control squashing the output at the desk than the belt pack, although having a limiter in the belt pack can't possibly hurt.

        I'm thinking of mixing the aux buses with a -15 target and putting a fast soft-knee 8:1 at -10. Then tell folks to set their volume wherever it's comfy..?

        Or maybe I should run closer to 0 dB to give the belt-pack compressor a better shot of kicking in?
        Don’t need a limiter on my X32 Or Soundcraft Impact. Just some low cut on the send and it sounds great. Sennheiser IEM unit.

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        • #11
          I hate them but the band I'm in won't even do practices without them so I guess I'm stuck with them until I can weasel my way out of the group.
          http://www.crazydeliciousband.com/

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          • #12
            Originally posted by scottkahn View Post
            Here's a tutorial I wrote a while back all about In-Ear Monitoring Systems (IEMs) and Personal Monitoring Systems (PMS). Two halves of the pie, as you can't use one without the other:
            http://musicplayers.com/2011/07/01/i...onitoring-101/
            Page not found.

            I've been thinking about IEM's for the band, more for portability sake than anything else. I don't want to store and haul wedges.
            http://thekiltlifters.com

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            • #13
              Originally posted by ggm1960 View Post
              I hate them but the band I'm in won't even do practices without them so I guess I'm stuck with them until I can weasel my way out of the group.
              Our guitarist hates them so we let him use a wedge. I think it messes with the overall sound on stage and interferes with my IEM mix if he has it too loud, but it is what it is. Gotta compromise to make everyone as happy as possible.

              At practice though? That seems weird. Practice is about communicating with other.
              Donald Trump: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

              RobRoy: "There is an "honest grit" to his lying."

              Comment


              • #14
                Originally posted by guido61 View Post

                Our guitarist hates them so we let him use a wedge. I think it messes with the overall sound on stage and interferes with my IEM mix if he has it too loud, but it is what it is. Gotta compromise to make everyone as happy as possible.

                At practice though? That seems weird. Practice is about communicating with other.
                Ironically it's the guitarist (aka: band leader) who insists on it. I realize it's nice to clear up the stage while also lowering stage volume but it seems we often have difficulties/complications associated with them that I don't understand because we use the same sound company guy 95% of the time. It wouldn't be practical for me to use a wedge because aside from playing keys I also get out front on guitar for a number of tunes.

                One thing people rarely mention about these is that it precludes any possibility of spontaneity in the form of having someone get up and jam with the group which could have been fun on a few occasions.

                Recently I did a gig with a 30 piece orchestra on a professional stage where we had a dedicated pro doing the monitor mix. I had a choice of using in-ear or the wedge and I opted for the wedge because I was stationary at the keyboards and it was nice not to have to fiddle with the receiver and earbuds.
                Last edited by ggm1960; 02-26-2018, 01:24 PM.
                http://www.crazydeliciousband.com/

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