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  • Musical Maturity

    I guess this is the best forum for this question. I sometimes sit in with an open jam or sub for other bands. It amazes me the amount of people are not aware of what they are playing, overplaying, not paying attention to other musicians, not thinking about what they are doing, volume problems, etc. It always seems like these guys talk the most junk also and don’t know anything when it comes down to it. People just don't seem to have any instincts or musicality. How is it regionally for you? Seems like there are a lot of guys like this out there.
    Last edited by Outkaster; 03-22-2016, 07:44 AM.
    "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

  • #2

    The music here is horrible. Reggae and whatever variations ensue or old cover Rock and whatever variations ensue. All by hacks that had to copy the stuff - oar at least tried, in the first place. I'll get up and drum but have learned to keep it generic - or nuttin. It lets the crappy material breathe and doesn't leave anything on the curb for the roaches. Win , win.
    Irony is I'm now considered boring and probably untalented. roar
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    • #3
      "Musical maturity" is exactly how I'd define that, as well. Some cats have it, and some don't. There's a good mix of it up here.
      Music, music, I hear music
      Fitch Drums - The Blog for the Aspiring Non-Professional Drummer

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      • 1001gear
        1001gear commented
        Editing a comment
        You're in monster central; a veritable smorgasbord by any stretch of my standards.

    • #4
      Outkaster you are right. And some of the biggest offenders are drummers. (overplaying that is.)

      I go to see a lot of music in Nashville, and it is surprising how many drummers think you have to put a fill at the end of every 4 bars. (and a Stewart Copeland fill for that matter!)

      Most band Music Directors (MD's) or lead singers just want a good solid tempo and groove.

      Lead Guitarist are also a big offender. (darns flame proof vest).


      I think it is important as you mature musically to realize it is about the song, and not about YOUR instrument.

      D-out
      Keeping the Harmony at Harmony Central

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      • #5
        Originally posted by Outkaster View Post
        I sometimes sit in with an open jam or sub for other bands. It amazes me the amount of people are not aware of what they are playing, overplaying, not paying attention to other musicians, not thinking about what they are doing, volume problems, etc. It always seems like these guys talk the most junk also and don’t know anything when it comes down to it. People just don't seem to have any instincts or musicality. How is it regionally for you? Seems like there are a lot of guys like this out there.
        Robert Trujillo's "Jaco" documentary had a scene where Weather Report was cutting tracks and Jaco (being brand new) was way too busy. Joe tells him "Hey, you're already IN the band, we KNOW you can play... play for the song now" (my paraphrase). Jaco is considered the best or one of the top 10 best electric bassist ever. and he overplayed always (that "fact" is not helping this thread BTW)........
        I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe the real question is why do "music employers" hire players that are way overqualified for the gig. Every country or rock player I know just wants to play their "Scott Henderson" stuff but has to pay the bills by playing radio drool and ends up quitting or miserable. Why not hire guys that actually like the friggin music?

        Lets switch gears. The average "garage band" drum tom sounds pretty uninspiring (just my opinion). I once got to soundcheck on drums when I was 21 (I'm not even a drummer) in an arena on a well miced kit. Just one tom was inspiring (not my opinion). When that tone springs forth with roundness and girth and reverberates where 19,000 people will be it makes you want to play less.
        ~garage band = Hawaii Five0 intro
        ~pro kit on massive PA in massive arena = Journey "Open Arms" fill
        Same thing with guitar
        ~misquito tone = K Hammett all night
        ~loud thickness w/ definition = E Clapton (if you're lucky)

        My "local scene" is Nashville. Most of the jams are pretty mature and developed. On the occasion someone decides to "plow through everybody" I don't recall it being a problem (however I also do not frequent the jams).... Even on this forum there is a discrepancy as to if "the standards" should be played true to the "hit recording" or if you "give it your own feel".... when you put 5 players on a stage (in your town or any town) with those differing world views then I'm guessing it sounds like what you're describing.




        ...... then there are the singers
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        • #6
          I was playing the local bar with my trio a couple of years ago and the owner sat in for a bit on drums. He's a good player but did not know the material so he simply laid it down and it was great.

          He played a few songs with us and, when we threw something weird at him, again, he simply laid it down and it was great.
          As a human being, you come with the whole range of inner possibilities
          from the deepest hell to the highest states.

          It is up to you which one you choose to explore
          .

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          • #7
            See but these clowns can not even do that. I just don't understand why people don't have better developed instincts?....some of these guys have been doing the same thing for years and years also.
            "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

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            • #8
              J. Paul - I agree with you.
              The funny thing about the Nashville scene is that the majority of the gigs I do (including singer/songwriter stuff) is either a CD or MP3 sent ahead and maybe a half hour rehearsal (if that). It is hard to over play as it goes to what OneLife says above. The guy sitting in wasn't extremely familiar with the tunes, so he played it safe and just laid down a groove.

              Outkaster, I think some people who gig live get "bored" with playing the same ol' set list. Some even have fallen into "hey, I'm in it for the $100 (if that) I get when we are done." They start to noodle on songs to add a little spice. Doesn't make it right, just is a fact.

              There are bands throughout history that are known for the complexity with which they play - Dream Theater, Dave Matthews Band (at least Carter B) , RUSH, and the like. But I personally prefer something that just stays in the pocket and takes me into the groove.

              Just my two pennies.


              D
              Last edited by Dendy Jarrett; 03-23-2016, 04:01 PM.
              Keeping the Harmony at Harmony Central

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              • #9
                Originally posted by Outkaster View Post
                See but these clowns can not even do that. I just don't understand why people don't have better developed instincts?....some of these guys have been doing the same thing for years and years also.
                As you move away from the meccas into the general population, the quality of professional takes a nose dive back to ground level. People at this level play for their spirit and are apathetic and more or less clueless about ensemble values and otherwise general performance values. They lack the basic abilities to even go there.
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                • #10
                  I wouldn't put up with it in my own band. My bass player noodles too much but basically will stop once we are in the song. I find it a huge problem with musicians and not addressed enough.
                  "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

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                  • #11
                    Noodling drives me crazy unless a guy is trying to work a part out.

                    1001gear - This 'can' be true about moving away from a city = moving away from the culture of professionalism, however, I grew up in rural SC and started playing in a band at the age of 14 called Carolina Country Classics. We played <ehem> real country music (AKA Pasty Cline, or Rainin' in My Heart) music.
                    The guy that ran that band was as professional as they come (even though he was a country as a corn cob).

                    We all had to dress in CW shirts with matching bolos, pants a boots. We played square dances, festivals, etc. He taught me a lot about just showing up on time, rehearsal protocol, etc.

                    So, it doesn't always hold true this sentiment about lack of professional culture.

                    Ive also met plenty of "professional jerks" in my day as well in the music circles. You know, the guy who thinks he is much better than he really is and he wants you to know it. He doesn't bend much about band decisions and the like.

                    I have to say, I am a good 2/4 player. Nothing fancy, just hold down the groove, but I have gotten more jobs because I have a good attitude. That has landed me more gigs than my playing ever did.

                    D
                    Keeping the Harmony at Harmony Central

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                    • #12


                      I mean real meccas. NY, LA, Nashville, and asstd college strongholds. Anyplace else is running on weed alone. You can probably get on the phone and put together a gigworthy bunch and have it running in a week. Not so in most communities. for sure not mine.
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                      • Dendy Jarrett
                        Dendy Jarrett commented
                        Editing a comment
                        You got a point there. There are, however, closet players in a lot of small towns. Some would be able to hold their weight on a live gig, and others ... not-so-much.

                      • 1001gear
                        1001gear commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Oh yeah, no question there's ample people to cover gigs. The peeve with me is a glaring lack of people to work with locally on projects and arrogant as I may come off, on simply good material. Rockers, Reggoids and the general pros don't hear blends or harmonies or any of those musical basics other than on stuff they copied and even then only to the degree they were able to copy it. It's very saddening to me.

                    • #13
                      Being in a power trio back in the day was kind of a luxury, because you could get away with overplaying...not a lot was going on otherwise Even then, though, I was learning to understand the power of what happened when you laid out because then the "big" parts became just that much bigger.

                      I learned a lot about musical maturity by playing with the drum machine I made back in 1970. Don't laugh. Playing along with those simple grooves required simple parts, my timing got 100% better, and my bass playing improved dramatically because with the drum machine, I was part of a rhythm section.

                      The next big lesson was doing record production. So many musicians overplayed, and they could hear it on playback when pointed out to them.

                      The next big lesson was jamming with DJs. They prioritize when to mute things. If I played when they were subtracting, I looked like an idiot. So I paid real close attention to how the flow was going.
                      N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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                      • #14
                        personally i believe the idea about the ability or inability of an artist being based upon geographic location to be ludicrous. thats almost as asinine as equating fame and popular status to levels of competency on any particular instrument. pick one, its still silly... rather it makes more sense that mono instrumentalist have less of a knowledge base from which to draw as compared to say someone that has played most or all the other instruments... ,from a hack standpoint, drumz is eezy... an artist knows better...
                        my p0asting days were numb bird... now im done... bye.

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                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Anderton View Post
                          Being in a power trio back in the day was kind of a luxury, because you could get away with overplaying...not a lot was going on otherwise Even then, though, I was learning to understand the power of what happened when you laid out because then the "big" parts became just that much bigger...
                          Something I like to do in a three piece is use space as the "fourth piece" as well as using it to make the bits we do play really stand out.
                          As a human being, you come with the whole range of inner possibilities
                          from the deepest hell to the highest states.

                          It is up to you which one you choose to explore
                          .

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