O.T. Have any of you found the solution to system crashes?

[Jeff Leites]

So I got this XP machine last March, and have not had any problems... until Jan 1st. Since then, I have had 3 system crashes days apart, all with different error messages.

 

KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

BAD_POOL_HEADER

 

It doesn't make any sense to me. The reasons given for these errors just don't hold up. The recommendation I see the most for the first two is to update my dirivers. Well, if my dirvers worked flawlessly for 9 months, why would they mess up after 1/1? And why would they continue to work after rebooting?

 

The last one occured when booting up in the morning (the computer was cold, so overheading is out). It seems to be an error that would occur when setting up a computer for the first time, the error should reoccur until whatever is causing it is fixed. I just rebooted and was good to go.

 

I've searched the web for solutions, found lot's of other guys with the same problems, and lots of suggestions, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone post that they've fixed the problem. So, I'm just wondering if anyone here has actually fixed the cause of a random system error.

[MikeRivers]

Yeah. Throw away the computer and use real hardware. Not that hardware doesn't fail, but you can always find out why it failed and know that you've fixed it. This is rarely the case with software.

[Alndln2]

Sounds like a hardware/driver conflict. Without details we can only guess.

[Jon Gnash]

and

First

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Yeah. Throw away the computer and use real hardware. Not that hardware doesn't fail, but you can always find out why it failed and know that you've fixed it.

 

Computer Tip Of The Month Award

 

[Jeff Leites]

Jon - Thanks for your suggestions.

 

I didn't post any details here, because I wasn't expecting anyone to have the cure. I was just wondering if anyone actually ever finds the answer and fixes the real problem. Looking at the tech. forums, my impression was that they don't. But since you asked, I'll post more detail at the end of this.

 

In answer to your other questions:

 

I did run the memory test, but only 6 passes, because the instructions said if if passed the test in the first pass, it was probably ok. I've since read that I should run it much longer.

 

I looked for a new display driver, but got a message that mine was the most current. Also, as I said, I don't understand why the drivers or bios that has been working fine for 9 months would suddenly cause problems, and then the same bios and drivers work again for days.

 

I have Norton A/V installed, I have since day one.

 

Shut down time is normal. It has not increased since the trouble started.

 

The only other thing is, after the last crash, I ran DSKCHK which I saw recommended on a tech forum. It said if found some errors, and told me to run DSKCHK /F. I had to let it reschedule for the next startup. I rebooted, and it ran, I'm fairly sure it found and fixed the errors, but the screen disappeared before I could read it. I thought I read that it would log any errors if found in the system Event log, but I didn't see them there (Event Viewer - System). I'm hopeing that whatever it found and fixed takes care of the problem.

 

Here is the detail on the 3 errors:

 

The first two occured while using IE7 and/or Netscape.

 

System Error 1:

Bug Check 0x8E: KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

 

Event Type: Error

Event Source: System Error

Event Category: (102)

Event ID: 1003

Date: 1/1/2008

Time: 10:06:41 PM

User: N/A

Computer: OURDESKTOP

Description:

Error code 1000008e, parameter1 c0000005, parameter2 bf8011a3, parameter3 f77fda48, parameter4 00000000.

 

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Data:

0000: 53 79 73 74 65 6d 20 45 System E

0008: 72 72 6f 72 20 20 45 72 rror Er

0010: 72 6f 72 20 63 6f 64 65 ror code

0018: 20 31 30 30 30 30 30 38 1000008

0020: 65 20 20 50 61 72 61 6d e Param

0028: 65 74 65 72 73 20 63 30 eters c0

0030: 30 30 30 30 30 35 2c 20 000005,

0038: 62 66 38 30 31 31 61 33 bf8011a3

0040: 2c 20 66 37 37 66 64 61 , f77fda

0048: 34 38 2c 20 30 30 30 30 48, 0000

0050: 30 30 30 30 0000

 

 

System Error 2:

Bug Check 0xD1: DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

 

Event Type: Error

Event Source: System Error

Event Category: (102)

Event ID: 1003

Date: 1/7/2008

Time: 8:12:26 AM

User: N/A

Computer: OURDESKTOP

Description:

Error code 100000d1, parameter1 00000001, parameter2 00000002, parameter3 00000000, parameter4 aa67fc31.

 

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Data:

0000: 53 79 73 74 65 6d 20 45 System E

0008: 72 72 6f 72 20 20 45 72 rror Er

0010: 72 6f 72 20 63 6f 64 65 ror code

0018: 20 31 30 30 30 30 30 64 100000d

0020: 31 20 20 50 61 72 61 6d 1 Param

0028: 65 74 65 72 73 20 30 30 eters 00

0030: 30 30 30 30 30 31 2c 20 000001,

0038: 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 32 00000002

0040: 2c 20 30 30 30 30 30 30 , 000000

0048: 30 30 2c 20 61 61 36 37 00, aa67

0050: 66 63 33 31 fc31

 

 

 

System Error 3:

Bug Check 0x19: BAD_POOL_HEADER

 

This error occured while booting up in the morning. I was able to reboot.

 

Event Type: Error

Event Source: System Error

Event Category: (102)

Event ID: 1003

Date: 1/10/2008

Time: 8:35:25 AM

User: N/A

Computer: OURDESKTOP

Description:

Error code 00000019, parameter1 00000020, parameter2 e5282330, parameter3 e5282370, parameter4 0c080808.

 

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Data:

0000: 53 79 73 74 65 6d 20 45 System E

0008: 72 72 6f 72 20 20 45 72 rror Er

0010: 72 6f 72 20 63 6f 64 65 ror code

0018: 20 30 30 30 30 30 30 31 0000001

0020: 39 20 20 50 61 72 61 6d 9 Param

0028: 65 74 65 72 73 20 30 30 eters 00

0030: 30 30 30 30 32 30 2c 20 000020,

0038: 65 35 32 38 32 33 33 30 e5282330

0040: 2c 20 65 35 32 38 32 33 , e52823

0048: 37 30 2c 20 30 63 30 38 70, 0c08

0050: 30 38 30 38 0808

[Jon Gnash]

Jeff,

 

I bet you already know this but fwiw - the disk errors are symptoms and not the source of the problem. You got disk errors because the system cashed when crucial system files were open. So you need DSKCHK to fix the disk errors but it

[Jeff Leites]

What is a kernal driver?

 

On this machine, I installed Norton A/V 2006. When it expired, I installed the 2007 version, but that was almost 4 months ago. I didn't have a problem until January 1st.

 

I think the crashes are too far apart to test by disabling Norton. I could be days or weeks in between crashes.

 

BTW, I ran sigverif on windowssystem32drivers, and got this list fo unsigned drivers:

 

iqvw32.sys

srtsp.inf

srtspl.inf

srtspx.inf

symevent.inf

symredr.inf

 

I don't know if it matters. Except for the first one, they are Symantec information files. I don't know why Symantec would have drivers. I thought they were for hardware.

[daklander]

Jeff, why not try this...

Download either AVG or Avast. Turn off Norton and install either of the others and run your computer for a couple of weeks. If all is well during that time get rid of Norton.

If not, you've pretty much cleared Norton of being the problem, if, that is, it doesn't keep something or other going in the background when it's not supposed to be running.

[E-money]

My experience with running a happy PC is this.

Install the OS, all of your drivers, and all of your applications.

Get everything setup the way you like it, and Ghost the drive.

 

I end up restoring my XP machine via ghost every few months. It's the quickest, most painless way I know of to get back to a smooth running machine.

[Dean Roddey]

It's definitely a driver issue. That IRQ less than error is a very generic error that happens when a driver (that runs in the kernel and hence has the ability to serious damage) does something really bad and probably is overwritting important kernel memory.

 

Symantec has drivers because it's a huge, bloated, uber-intrusive pig that you should never use. It's not uncommon for it to cause more problems than it fixes. Get a light weight, non-intrusive package like AVG.

[philbo]

 

It's definitely a driver issue. That IRQ less than error is a very generic error that happens when a driver (that runs in the kernel and hence has the ability to serious damage) does something really bad and probably is overwritting important kernel memory. Symantec has drivers because it's a huge, bloated, uber-intrusive pig that you should never use. It's not uncommon for it to cause more problems than it fixes. Get a light weight, non-intrusive package like AVG.

 

 

Yep - you got it! I'm one of the many thousands of people who would greatly prefer to have the worst viruses out there rather than use Norton-Anything. I at least know how to get rid of viruses - - you go download AVG-free, run it, and you're done. I've heard there are ways to get rid of Norton, but I'll never risk installing that crapware on any of my PCs ever again.

 

With Norton, you are getting in bed with Satan, and sooner or later, he'll be in the mood to give you a horn up the rear....

[MikeRivers]

 

I've heard there are ways to get rid of Norton

I guess my age is showing, but I remember when Norton Utilities was essential for every PC. I guess things just got away from them (or Peter Norton is sunning himself on his yacht and letting the royalties pay for the fuel).

 

Several months ago, Craig posted a link to a utility (I think it was even from the Norton web site) that would eradicate all Norton programs from your system. I'm sure it's still here if you can find it, or someone will re-post it.

[Dean Roddey]

They are just victims of the usual thing. They feel the need to continue to add new features to their product to stay ahead, so it grows and grows and grows, until it's a complete pig and intruding into every aspect of the computer. And for naive users, perhaps that's what they need, but for most of use here, it's way more than we need, definitely way too much for a DAW machine.

[Cry Logic]

It's true what they say...

Norton sucks.

Get rid of it any way you can.

Even if you have to format & re-install.

[Jeff Leites]

Here's a follow up.

I had 11 crashes. They occured about once a week.

Just before the warranty expired, I took the computer back to where I bought it.

They ran stress tests for nearly 3 days. No problems.

I brought it home and got 2 more crashes.

After the last crash, I ran the Microsoft on-line registry cleaner http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/center/cleanup.htm

That was over a month ago, and I haven't had a problem since then.

[blue2blue]

 

I guess my age is showing, but I remember when Norton Utilities was essential for every PC. I guess things just got away from them (or Peter Norton is sunning himself on his yacht and letting the royalties pay for the fuel). Several months ago, Craig posted a link to a utility (I think it was even from the Norton web site) that would eradicate all Norton programs from your system. I'm sure it's still here if you can find it, or someone will re-post it.

 

Norton sold the company way back in 1990.

 

Their -- or perhaps I should say his -- DOS products were mostly very good. Like you say, they were pretty close to essentials. I certainly had a copy and used it a lot for a while. All those little command line utilities were great for making DOS considerably friendlier. And they worked with DR-DOS, as well. I ran a MS-free machine for years.

 

My experiences with Symantec/Norton, OTOH, have been hellish, just like almost everyone else's. Getting rid of Norton or their competitor/soul-mates MacAffee is the first thing I do when I'm stripping down a store-bought or big vendor machine. Fortunately, it's a lot easier than it used to be. I understand Dell even has an option to NOT get "free software" like Norton, now. That sounds like it'd be worth extra money. Don't tell Michael Dell I said so.

[Lee Flier]

I had the same problem a year or so ago and it turned out it was heat. The CPU was overheating and Windows shut down. It may not have happened in the shop because I'll bet they had the case open.

 

Download a free program called "Speedfan" which will tell you the temperature of your CPU and other components. Monitor the temperature especially when doing CPU or graphics intensive work. You may need to beef up your computer's fans, airflow etc... in my case I installed a better CPU fan and that did the trick.

[wwwjd]

 

My experience with running a happy PC is this. Install the OS, all of your drivers, and all of your applications. Get everything setup the way you like it, and Ghost the drive. I end up restoring my XP machine via ghost every few months. It's the quickest, most painless way I know of to get back to a smooth running machine.

 

 

 

^^^ BEST Practice right there.

[nat whilk II]

I back it all up and reformat my hard drive about 4 times a year on my XP machine.

 

Each time I do it my system is reborn and runs like a deer.

 

Also, once I reload the OS, and before I start re-installing everything else, I do all the XP updates. Then on to reinstalling the programs. It's about a half-day job now that I'm very used to it.

 

And I regain a ton of HD space. And I use msconfig to strip out unwanted systray programs, etc. Clean registry, clean hard drive, updated drivers, all that - does wonders.

 

It's like cleaning the barnacles off the ship after each long voyage....

 

nat whilk ii

[Anderton]

 

Several months ago, Craig posted a link to a utility (I think it was even from the Norton web site) that would eradicate all Norton programs from your system. I'm sure it's still here if you can find it, or someone will re-post it.

 

 

Indeed!! My mom's computer and my daughter's kept having weird crashes and running the KILL ALL PIECES OF NORTON routine solved their problems and made their computers run a helluva lot faster, too.

 

It's on the Norton site, but well-hidden. Can't remember exacty how to find it, but do a search on Norton with Anderton as user name and hopefully it'll pop up.

[Anderton]

 

My experience with running a happy PC is this. Install the OS, all of your drivers, and all of your applications. Get everything setup the way you like it, and Ghost the drive.

 

 

How does that affect copy-protected software that keys to the hardware?

[deanmass]

Is there enough thermal paste between the cpu and the heat sink? If not, or you do not know, get a tube at the local computer show and re-apply. This is about $5 and takes about 10 minutes.

 

Have you added ram recently? Do you have spare ram to swap out?

 

Can you download a live distro of any linux build, and run it from cd to see if the systems crashes? If so, that means it is likely hardware, not Windows. If not, more likely it is software. Run a graphically intense screen saver, something that renders to get the cpu pumping.

 

Nortons used to rock. Now, it is fo freaking invasive, it renders all but the most fire breathing system useless. Run Nortons from CD only.

[Anderton]

But don't add too much heat sink compound. A thin, even, consistent coating is best.

[Jeff Leites]

I had the same problem a year or so ago and it turned out it was heat. The CPU was overheating and Windows shut down. It may not have happened in the shop because I'll bet they had the case open. Download a free program called "Speedfan" which will tell you the temperature of your CPU and other components. Monitor the temperature especially when doing CPU or graphics intensive work. You may need to beef up your computer's fans, airflow etc... in my case I installed a better CPU fan and that did the trick.

 

Heat was a problem I had considered. I opened it up and blew out a ton of dust bunnies. I also installed a program called Core Temp to monitor and log the CPU temp. It wasn't running hot, and I still had the crashes.

 

The Microsoft Clean Up scan seems to have fixed it. Like I said, I haven't had a crash since I used it over a month ago.