Members E-money Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Our band is finishing up some recordings and we're in the vocals and BG vocals phase.I'd love to read some discussion on double tracking (or more) of vocal parts. Is it more common now than ever, or has everybody been doing it forever? Is it more common than non-double tracked vocals? Where does it come in the most handy? I'm finding that even though the 2, 3 and sometimes 4 part harmonies are on pitch, they're still missing a certain "wow factor" and I'm wondering if doubling our parts, or doubling each others' parts would give it more weight. Also, if anybody has any great "secret weapons" for great BG vocals other than double-tracking, would love to hear about it. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I tend to double-track my lead vocal But only because I have a weedy singing voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KindredDuo Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Once I started really listening for it, I was amazed at how prevalent it WAS and IS. So many oldies, Beatles, Elton John, CSN, just to name a very few. I know these acts are really old, but it happens all the time. Just listen carefully to your favorite artists and you'll probably hear it. At least in choruses, or somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think that with really good vocalists, double-tracking reduces intimacy and power. Some classic country and rock tracks weren't double-tracked, the vocals were mixed high, and they could really connect with the listener. OTOH sometimes you want a more disconnected, gauzy sound. I think the Byrds nailed that before anyone else. I don't think there's a "one size fits all" solution. For example, lead vocal not double-tracked and background vocals multiplied can work. Also, double-tracking the lead but mixing it considerably below the main vocal can be very effective. With a recent remix I did, I ended up cutting and moving phrases around with the double-tracked vocal so all the vocal phrases would be tightly synched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I tend to double-track my lead vocal But only because I have a weedy singing voice It's better than you think. Remember, I have the Saul T. Nads Boxed Set! Your voice connects, which is what people want. If they want flawless technique, there's opera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 It goes way back. It started as soon as there were enough tape tracks to do it. No doubt there are cases even before that, when people went way out of their way to do it. But once there were plenty of tracks available, it's a no-brainer. The main drawback is that the live version suffers in comparison. Not exactly the same thing, but we oldies sure remember missing the flute part in the intro to Thick as a Brick. Ian just couldn't find a way to play guitar, flute, and sing at the same time! Of course, back then they compensated for the lack of live tracks by turning everything up so you couldn't make any of it out anyway. Today they expect the keyboard player to fill every missing part, or else use live backing tracks. Ugh in either case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Regarding harmonies -- there's a huge difference to singing harmonies together vs multitracking them. It's equivalent to the difference between playing several piano notes vs. recording individual notes and playing them together. Yeah, there really is sympathetic resonance, and in the case of singing it's even more pronounced than piano strings because the human voice is not passive. I'll never forget the first time I was being coached to do a 3rd harmony part with two much better singers, and when singing a chord, it felt like all three notes were coming out of my chest. It really knocked me out. I mean, no wonder people sing in church; it's a religious experience. I understand it's even more profound for harmonies where higher harmonics on all the other voices coincide, causing an extra soprano note to be heard (and felt). This is called "ringing", and while you can do that single-tracking, but it doesn't sound or feel quite the same due to the lack of the mutual feedback loop. That said, I'm sure a lot of harmonies are recoreded single-tracking, simply because it's faster, and easier to correct any mistakes. Fix it with AutoTune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I NEVER liked double tracking my lead vocal and I've certainly experimented with it for effect but never ended up using it. As far as backing vocals go, I usually use 2 to 4 tracks per part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 huge choirs here sometimes and the recording techniques are top secret you know, MI-6, Sheriff Lobo, CIA, James Bond, general Liu, Dr. Fumanchu... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members E-money Posted August 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 huge choirs here sometimes and the recording techniques are top secretyou know, MI-6, Sheriff Lobo, CIA, James Bond, general Liu, Dr. Fumanchu... Come on, give us a little something, some tidbit of knowledge, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Choir: For R&B pop for example Bruce's method. For transfigured pop the Nicky Ryan methods. For blasting movie soundtrack we us libraries, seldom record a real choir. For this and that we use Wordbuilder, a software you type in the lyrics and it sings the lyrics in whatever language... the rest is sculpturing - balancing - processing - creating 3-D spaces from common to total unusual types- IR's which contain already processing i.e. a BPM filter movement - tuning down the reverberation for a more sad perception, or tuning it up for a tiny little more joy - artificial doubling with software - celemony doubling - harmonizing with celemony - soon when I have a chance I will use again an Eventide Harmonizer... just any of the stuff all producer do, nothing revolutionary, hardly any GRM processing, but for horror stuff then I would GRM processing maybe, or Reaktorize it, or what ever tools are available today including the total far out stuff when the program material calls for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Regarding harmonies -- there's a huge difference to singing harmonies together vs multitracking them. It's equivalent to the difference between playing several piano notes vs. recording individual notes and playing them together. EXCELLENT point that applies beyond vocals. You're describing a situation where the whole is definitely greater than the sum of its parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 tuning down the reverberation for a more sad perception, or tuning it up for a tiny little more joy Another excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's better than you think. Remember, I have the Saul T. Nads Boxed Set! Your voice connects, which is what people want. If they want flawless technique, there's opera Aha, then you did receive it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's better than you think. Remember, I have the Saul T. Nads Boxed Set! Your voice connects, which is what people want. If they want flawless technique, there's opera Aha, then you did receive it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 The 1960's girl-group era was famous for double (and triple tracking) the leadvox, but primarily white girls. Motown sistahs didn't need a double-track. Isn't there an old recordists' saying, "Double-tracking makes a bad voice better, and a good voice worse." [video=youtube;m9UomHul178] [video=youtube;KCRdUB_ASTc] [video=youtube;EJKkxJqEaYc] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2012 tuning down the reverberation for a more sad perception, or tuning it up for a tiny little more joy - artificial doubling with software I've forgotten all about this. And I've never tried it but was intending to. So, how far are you detuning? You're talking in the cents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think that with really good vocalists, double-tracking reduces intimacy and power. Some classic country and rock tracks weren't double-tracked, the vocals were mixed high, and they could really connect with the listener.OTOH sometimes you want a more disconnected, gauzy sound. I think the Byrds nailed that before anyone else. I don't think there's a "one size fits all" solution. For example, lead vocal not double-tracked and background vocals multiplied can work. Also, double-tracking the lead but mixing it considerably below the main vocal can be very effective. I definitely agree with all of the above. Double-tracking can work well with some thinner, reedier voices...but then again, not always. Depends on the song and what you want as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've forgotten all about this. And I've never tried it but was intending to. So, how far are you detuning? You're talking in the cents? a few cent, maybe 2 to 7 cents, more then 13 and it starts to sound more like two pitches, just turn the knob until is sound a little sadder or a little more lifting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ronan Murphy Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 IF I am double tracking it is usually to get a little pitch ambiguity. Unless the singer is really good, the timing issue can really take away some impact from the vocals. one trick I like is to use the VocAlign plug in on the second one to get them rock solid time wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 well, I cut almost all vocals in snips there where it isn't as I want it, and move them to where it starts to be in the groove I want, I don't care who the singer is, but also don't tell them how I did it - doesn't mean there where singing anything not usuable, but it just has to be perfectionized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 I notice, in the great Carpenters' hits, Karen would sing the verse of the song single-tracked... then on the chorus, Richard would double-track her. It became a kind of formula for them, and it did effectively signal the listener, "NOW HERE'S THE HOOK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted August 9, 2012 Members Share Posted August 9, 2012 IF I am double tracking it is usually to get a little pitch ambiguity. Unless the singer is really good, the timing issue can really take away some impact from the vocals. one trick I like is to use the VocAlign plug in on the second one to get them rock solid time wise. VocaAlign is kind of amazing, isn't it? As soon as that technology came out, dubbings of foreign movies' language tracks suddenly became quite tight and convincing... Nothing like the bad dubs we used to get of, say, martial arts movies in the 1970's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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