Have People Become More Mean-Spirited?

A comment by Lee Flier in another thread got me thinking about this.

I think in many ways, and bearing in mind that generalizations suck, I'd have to say yes.

Why? Frankly, I think there's a lot of fear right now. The newpaper stories read like a trailer for "The Day After Tomorrow" - like the story over the weekend that Greenland's glaciers were melting at a rate that far exceeds any computer models.

Then there's always the "so when is the next terrorism attack going to happen, and how many people are going to die?" No fun there, either.

And sure, the economy's okay, but it's because of all the money that's being borrowed. If you borrowed $500,000, you'd probably feel you were doing okay too...until the bills came due.

The big problem is that rather than reacting in a way that tries to address problems head on, I think the more primitive "circle the wagons" mentality is coming into place, and that's causing the mean-spiritedness.

I'm NOT saying things were always hunky-dory, by any means. The cold war sucked. The "love generation" turned from idealism to narcissism, and the 80s defined the "me-first" generation. But I don't recall the same level of meanness and polarization we're seeing now.

Anyone else seeing the same thing?

Go to hell...

Yeah, and no....I think the mean have gotten meaner, the rude have gotten ruder, and the rest of us have become better at ignoring the a**holes and sticking to the ideas of trying to be the best we can, the nicest we can and trying to stay that way in the face of a ridiculous things that our culture now tolerates....

In other words, the mean have gotten meaner, and the rest are too wimpy to call out the mean people for being so effing mean so they just put up with it and try to pretend it's not happening. Which of course, only further emboldens the mean people.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up I'd say.

And just to clarify, I think generalizations suck too. But my original comment was in your thread "Has music been devalued?" which of course is a generalized question having to do with mainstream popular culture. Of course there are plenty of individuals who still value music greatly. And of course there are plenty of individuals who aren't mean-spirited. But overall, the cultural norm has gotten meaner and I think it's pretty hard to argue this. Rudeness, crassness, "shock value" and complete lack of empathy have become commonplace and actually aspired to by many. Thoughtfulness, intelligence (other than "utilitarian" kind of intelligence), common decency, artfulness, dignity, attentiveness, kindness and compassion seem almost completely devoid and devalued in our cultural leaders and supposed "statesmen," and by extension, those they lead.

Yeah that's just it - it's not that "things" were better than they are now. But it seems people have never had less capacity for being able to care for one another on an everyday basis, even in the face of whatever "things" are always going on. I mean that's the point of caring isn't it? It's easy to say you care when everything's going great.

yep definitely people are more mean-spirited. This comes with more freedoms, permissiveness and passive tolerance, and the ability to get away more with doing things that were previously taboo. Its reflected in all walks of life. Its all over the lyrics of hiphop, rap and R&B and rock etc., etc. Its all over the language used by high-school and college students. Its all over the trash-talking players of major sports like basketball, football etal., that kids idolize. Its all over TV, the movies, and music videos. Its all over the sound we prefer in our instruments a.k.a. gtrs., basses, synths etc.

Society is pushing the limits of "hard edge" meaning the ability to penetrate and "hit hard". As society pushes the limits of good but hard-edged banter, the line between that and pure insult is moved notches, Thus all the trash-talking and slam-banging is increased more and more.

Holy mackerel doesn't cut it anymore but F**king S**t a**hole has become the norm. I grew up being taught never to cuss but children nowadays are sort of castouts if they don't.

Insults have become the norm and people just ignore them and say, Oh they're entitled to their own opinion blah blah blah.

A joke today would, in the old days warrant a head cut from a samurai or a shot from a six-shooter, but yes we are more civilized now so we just let mean-spirit creep up on us.

Australia has always been noted for it's "Tall Poppy Syndrome" - we tend to knock people down if they appear to get too big for their boots. It can be quite destructive.

The US, on the other hand, has always been the champion of success and attainment. You've always held your greatest in high esteem.

It seems you are becoming more like us unfortunately. The Eagles post comes to mind.

(Edited) Only Some of the people have

The rest of us know they are out there so we put on a {censored} face so they won`t bug us

TV is a huge factor (in the USA). Judge Wapner, Judge Judy. Judges who are smart-asses. Then, you have talk radio and t.v. "journalism" like Bill O'Reilly and such whose modus operandi is insults and confrontation.

It really does wear on ya.

???

You mean you think the Eagles post is bashing them because they're successful? I don't really buy that. People always rush to that conclusion when anybody bashes a successful band but most of those same bashers could probably name you dozens of successful bands they don't bash. If somebody bashes a band (successful or not) generally it's because they just don't like that band's music, or maybe their public image or behavior. Not that I'm completely discounting jealousy as a factor, I just don't think it's the case as often as some people like to think.

In any case, there is absolutely no reason to be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk, and it seems that's what a lot of people do now, regardless of their station in life.

Yeah I agree that the media (TV, talk radio, video games, blogs, a lot of popular music and so on) really helps foster mean-spiritedness. Somebody figured out somewhere along the line that the easiest way to get attention is to say something outrageous and mean, so that's what everybody does. TV producers figured out that it's cheaper to just film people making asses of themselves than try to put on a quality show, etc. "Ordinary" people in turn have figured out that if they're willing to make asses of themselves on TV they can be famous for 15 minutes. So we have a culture now that rewards people for being jerks, and being notable for nothing other than their capacity to be "shocking" and rude and crass, and that ain't good.

Actually, I think the Internet (now I'm really generalizing) in terms of newsgroups, chat rooms, and discussion forums, has a lot to do with the general acceptance of hostility as a method of communication. The anonymity that a screenname provides and the boldness that comes from not having to physically face the target of one's attack really encourages the worst side of many people, myself included on occassion.

The one area in which I realize that human beans can still be wonderful is when I go traveling. That's one of the reasons I love it so much - just getting as far away from Western culture as possible is like pressing the Reset Button for me. I get treated so warmly when I go to India, Peru, Burma or other places, whether in huge modern metropolitan cities or villages of 100 families.

In day-to-day life, I generally get treated well. I probably encounter the most rudeness on the internet or driving, although there must be some unwritten rule that dictates that there's always a handful of jerks at any work location!

At any rate, I am going to Ecuador in several days, and look forward to getting away from everything.

This is a really difficult issue to sort out. On one hand, the "polite" generations get routinely slammed for hypocrisy. The "rude" generations are slammed for the obvious.

Sometimes I think the current culture is a sort of reverse-Victorian. Pressures to conform, and anger at those who don't conform runs very high, but in a weird reverse pattern. It's cool to be bad, and very uncool to be good. Of course, I should say "pretend to be good" as the deeply held belief of so many people is that the human race is, on average, a disreputable little beast with nasty private habits. In the absence of an overall moral standard, the most prized virtue is loyalty to your own sub-group - that's the sign of your conformity.

But again, so much of the rudeness is posturing, and 99% of the time from a safe distance. The anonimity of the web and of congested urban areas creates all these opportunities for meaness with no direct confrontation. It's all a facade of toughness so much of the time - an act, a shtick, a pose. That's the hypocrisy. Weird.

Maybe the thing will run it's course - people will tire of holding the pose, and the bad language will mainstream itself into meaningless blandness. Sometimes I think, wow, if you want to shock people anymore, you're going to have to invent some new dirty words. The old ones are almost totally devalued as common currency.

Sometimes I think it's a reaction to the whole "mother hen" tendency in society - everyone must be totally protected, everything must be totally fair, every danger must be abolished by the goverment, all losses compensated for, everyone holding hands as equivalent, submissive units of a safe society. There's something in people that eventually rebels against being handled and molded and oh-so-relentlessly taken care of. Suffocation sets in. Fight Club is the result - violence and vandalism.

The whole issue makes my head spin...so many cross currents of cultural drift in every direction.

nat whilk ii

I think the perception of "mean-spiritedness" is due to an increasingly selfish and provincial society.

People used to know their neighbors on the street, and share things over the (waist-high) fence.

Now, folks barely know their neighbors, and only sometimes wave over the (six-foot stockade) fence.

Folks used to go to the corner park to play. Now, everyone has a complete kids playground set in their own yard (behind the stockade fence, so the neighborhood kids don't come in and break it).

Even within the home, modern houses have everybody's little enclave of a room for their private this and that. We used to have a "living room" where we actually lived, and when company came, we also entertained. Now you have a formal "living room" which is more of a Victorian sitting parlor where you entertain, and a "den" or "family room" where you hide from the front door.

The mentality is "I've got mine, and I'm keeping it, and everyone else can get their own some other way".

A result of too much success, perhaps?

(With apologies to those who are tired of generalizations...):

Small-minded (and small-hearted) people are always driven by fear.

In sane people, those fears have external sources, so their path is controlled and dictated by external circumstances, as opposed to their being able to take control of their own path.

And so their actions, being the result of their fears, are very predictable. Bacause of this, their actions almost always makes them more vulnerable to whatever it is that they fear most.

One can see numerous examples of this in any newspaper every day.

A result of having to work longer hours, drive in more traffic, and generally be more busy, in my opinion.

It used to be that people in the USA would point their fingers at the Japanese and say, "Look how those people work like donkeys! That's unimaginable!".

Average working hours in the U.S. surpassed those of Japan over ten years ago. And by a "healthy" margin.

And U.S. workers have one of the lowest amount of paid vacation in the Western world, typically only getting 10-12 days a year (so they can rush through traffic to see their family during the holidays). Canada averages 21. Most European countries are much higher than this.

This frantic work pace has resulted in increased stress, poor eating habits and obesity, traffic, smog, congestion, and destroyed families.

By today's dollar, the average high school graduate 30 years ago earned the equivalent of $42,000/year. Now, the average high school graduate earns $29,000.

If THIS is the definition of "success", I don't want any part of it!

Simon makes American Idol worth a look. Without him it would have been cancelled before the end of the first season.

I find myself a lot less tolerant than I've ever been. And probably less tactful too. I don't have as much energy as I once did for politeness and especially politically correctness. I do tend to give people positive suggestions rather than negative criticisms but there are sometimes when I just want to tell the jerk who drives up my street at 55 mph to slow the f--- down.

Those are good points Ustad Ken. Something I've been getting into is appreciating what I have, and spending time with my life. This is instead of sacrificing amounts beyond reason to acquiring more "stuff" (which I will never have the time to appreciate because I'll be working extra time in order to pay for it all).

Take for example the stereotypical yuppie who buys restaurant grade kitchen equipment, upon which they stack takeout containers and the occasional microwave tray. I may have modest tools, but I enjoy cooking and take the time to do it instead of working five extra hours and then grabbing a pizza at the last minute.

just a quick note on internet personalities...

having met about 60+ people in person who I first met through various messageboards, with very few exceptions, the ones who typed the most (and had the highest post counts) were the most self-centered/rude in person (all of whom were clueless about it)...

the folks who posted mostly less/short comments, often a bit meanspirited in nature were the kindest and most humble in person

what this says about anything, I dunno...just my experience

----

another quick thought...

LA gets a bad rap for having rude people, etc...I'm starting to think it might be the opposite...I took my son to Universal Studios a few days ago, most of the patrons that day were visiting from middle America...I was shocked at how rude and insensitive these people were....just leaving the waterworld show I was scared for my son's life when people stampeded out of the place, pushing patient folks out of there way...maybe it's just the sugar?

blah

These issues all have two sides...

What I see is that we, as a society, have become so desensitized by what would have previously been considered "disgusting" behavior that everything has to be ramped up to the extreme to get anyone's attention anymore. I'm not exactly old, but I'm old enough to remember when you couldn't say things like "damn" and "{censored}" on TV, movies like "The Exorcist" were X-rated, and you could actually understand what your black/hispanic neighbors were saying (none of this "shizzle" crap). Now, even "family" shows are downright filthy, by comparison.

Terrorism exists because terror works. It is horrendous by nature because of our desensitization to violence and depravity. If we were less tolerant of a lot of the stuff that goes on today, things might actually be easier to deal with.

As for the ice caps in Greenland, perhaps their computer models weren't as accurate as they thought they were. Perhaps global warming is just the Earth recovering from a period of global cooling and, as such, is a good thing. Maybe human-kind was put on this planet with the specific purpose of wiping out certain species. I find it difficult to believe that we have that much impact on climate, considering a nominal volcanic eruption spews more hydrocarbon emissions in one day than all humankind has created in its lifetime. Perhaps hurricanes aren't getting stronger; maybe our construction techniques aren't up to the challenge anymore.

Think about it.

maybe you should stop wondering about it and put some trust in those who have spent years of their lives studying these things....DUMMY

that was kind of mean-spirited wasn't it...er, sorry

haha

If we are meaner perhaps it comes from the attitudes of the people who run this country. Or maybe our choices for our leader reflect our growing meanness.

Some quotes:

I'm the commander

We are the sum total of all our parts.

Things must not be too good among the humanoids.

At least!!!

You're being a bit partisan.

I DO RECALL the same level of meanness and polarization we're seeing now. Easily.

I'll assume you think everyone was just sooooooo nice in the 1990s? Many people have become extremely insulting and rude because they lost an election or two. Just read a forum or two on this site.

People were very insulting and rude in the 1990s and 1980s, too. Johnny Rotten doesn't sound like a "nice" name, now does it? That was 25 years ago. King's Road and similar areas around the West weren't picnics. The Rwandas weren't the Festivus in the 1990s, either. Nor was Waco. People's attitudes haven't changed at all.

nat whilk II summed it up pretty well. The so-called "popular" culture (I use the term loosely) deems it correct to insult and hate people who go to church, who keep a nice lawn, who don't swear all the time, who value the traditional family structure, and who are heterosexual (i.e. normal). This has been going on since the mid-1960s.

*waits for personal attacks and insults*