Have People Become More Mean-Spirited?

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Originally posted by blue2blue When I was a kid, out of state visitors always used to say, "You Californians are so friendly!" Boy, those were the good ol' days.

 

Lots of people who arrived there in the last 300 years to go back home

 

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

There are lots of beings on this planet who become agressive when the place gets crowded, pigs for example.

 

.

[Kiwiburger]

I think the number of murders is a fairly good indication that the human race is getting nastier by the day.

 

I recall in my childhood in New Zealand in the 1970's, a murder was a fairly rare event that would make the front page of the News paper. There seemed to be only one or two per year - maybe that was just my perception, but i'm sure they were rare. And usually you had some consolation that it wasn't in your city.

 

Now it seems to be an almost weekly occurance and hardly newsworthy. And it's a bit scary when it's really close to home, maybe in your own neighborhood.

 

I blame a number of things:

 

Nutrition - we are being force fed a lot of tainted crap that is known to produce medical problems and irrational behaviour. There is big money and powerful people controlling the crap we eat to make big profits for the few, and the expense of the many. Those of us who try to eat healthy find our efforts thwarted at every turn.

 

False medicine - the drug industry is extremely powerful, and nothing gets in the way of making profits first, no matter who gets hurt. The whole vaccination industry was based on fraud and bad science - but it makes so much money, they are too powerful to be stopped. The end result is the spreading of controllable dieseases which are very profitable, but makes a lot of people miserable and angry and less-in-control of their actions.

 

Toxins - we are being poisoned at every turn. It doesn't help when some of these are "legal" food additives and packaging. It's worse when illegal practices are involved - like methods of fishing that involved dumping drums of toxins overboard, to chemically stun the fish and make them rise to the surface.

 

TV, Video and gaming violence. They say that what we see and hear doesn't affect us. But if that was true, the mult-billion dollar advertising industry wouldn't work either. Monkey see, monkey do. We are so brainwashed, we don't think we are brainwashed.

 

Godless education, and godless religion. If a person truely believes they are a biological accident that has no meaning other than survival of the fittest - what's the problem if they want to end their life, or the lives of others? The more people who believe that they were created by a God of love, who values them and that they have a choice to make that will affect their eternal soul ... the more those people will value life and be nicer to each other.

 

The purposeful spreading of fear by the political leaders, who use fear as a means to exploit us further. Faked threats are just as powerful as actual threats. A few buildings, a few planes - it always been easy to create a climate of fear that will cause rational people to abandon reason and freely give up their rights. Even easier when you own the media.

 

The powerful few who are raping this planet will get theirs in the end - but at the moment they are behaving like pigs in muck.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Brittanylips But I find that on the small scale, absent grand gestures and culturally-defined roles, people generally have a fundamental urge to be just as friendly.

 

The point is not that one can't find friendly or generous people anymore. They're certainly still out there in great numbers. The point is that we currently have a lot of cultural "norms" and messages that promote mean spiritedness, and that does rub off on a certain percentage of the population who are easily influenced by such things (see blue's "rule of thirds" theory which I more or less agree with ).

 

There is definitely a larger number of people in this country who seem very invested in going out of their way to be mean and polarizing, than there were 20 or even 10 years ago. And certainly a good deal of popular culture reflects that.

 

But who knows, maybe part of the human experience is concluding, at some point in your life, that the world is going to pot. Each aging generation seems to think so. But has it ever really been true?

 

Of course it has at times. The Roman Empire took a long time to go to pot, and during that time a lot of people no doubt noticed it was happening and said so, and I'm sure they were often dismissed as a bunch of old farts saying the sky was falling.

 

I also disagree that every aging generation says the world is going to pot. Some generations have felt better about their children's future than they did about their own, and have the general sense that things are getting better. Most recently the folks who lived through the Depression and WWII certainly felt the world was a better place and the future looked brighter after those events were over. There've been plenty of such times in history.

 

Anyhow I think this is an ad hominem type argument where you're trying to dismiss the message by dismissing the messenger. Either you agree with the point or you don't, regardless who's making it. I also think it's silly to say that it's all a matter of individual perspective, when outside events do actually happen and do influence perspective as well as the reverse.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Originally posted by Lee Flier I also think it's silly to say that it's all a matter of individual perspective, when outside events do actually happen and do influence perspective as well as the reverse.

 

That goes already into Philosophy, maybee Theology too, but certainly Individualism...

 

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by Angelo Clematide There are lots of beings on this planet who become agressive when the place gets crowded, pigs for example. .

 

 

There's those famous psychological studies where they gradually increase the rat population. The rats start becoming more territorial, some bunching together (gangs!). Aggression begins, fights break out.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Startlingly, what eventually happens, at least in one study that I read, is that the rats begin eating each other.

 

"I do wish we could chat longer, but... I'm having an old friend for dinner."

[deanmass]

Ken, that made me think of Animal Farm...

 

Lee, (from 2 pages of comments ago) I don't think people are becoming more wimpy about tolerating idiots. I think the idiots are so idiotic, they are not worth even acknowledging. The days of being able to get in a friendly argument are behind us, cause so many people are packing, or are total freaking lunatics, it is just not worth the confrontation.

 

I also think that global corporate group think is a piece of it. There are so many more people, so many more corporations, and dealing with corporations is so much more frustrating AND most of us now have to deal with them daily, whereas 20 years ago, it was rare (think about calling your bank, Dell tech support or GMAC about your lease payment) but now it is common. We then get forced into communication environments that are SO constrained, we cannot feel that anything got resolved, then that frustration comes out in other venues, like venting at the poor kid at the coffee shop, etc. Once again, in many cases, avoiding it is the key to not letting it get to you.

 

I guess is so many cases, mean spirited, angry people are a product of our environment and the way the world has become as a result of over population, intolerance, no empathy, and no sense of belonging to a community or group due to the isolation of out technology driven life styles. I know many people who LIVE on line, and have no physical relationships, only email/forums/MMORPGs,etc, and when they are put in the environment, they freak and do not like it, then lash out. They do not know how to sit and talk over a game of backgammon, or play frisbee witha friend, or get out a couple guitars and start noodling and sharing tunes.

[philbo]

 

Originally posted by Angelo Clematide There are lots of beings on this planet who become agressive when the place gets crowded, pigs for example. .

 

 

Yeah, Nature has it's ways of controlling overpopulation.... famine, disease, war, and insanity all work pretty well. Even if we briefly think we have it beaten, there is no denying that it is all quite temporary.

 

And most of the things we do to help the situation invariably make it worse... Point in case: Ms. Gates, devoting her life to vacinating 3rd world infants using the Warren Buffet money, with no thought given to how these children will be fed as they grow up. It is a questionable mercy, to save an infant now so he or she can starve to death in 2 years...

[felix]

Admittedly, I haven't read this entire thread, but...

 

I think that there was a time that polite behavior was the expectation - and those who were mean or rude were looked down upon and shunned by others in any given situation.

 

But the alarming thing to me is that nowadays, mean-spirited behavior seems to be rewarded more often than not, and 'nice guys' really do finish last.

 

For instance - what customer gets what they want in a store - the one who waits politely, talks to the manager kindly, etc, or the guy who loses his temper, makes threats, rants and raves until someone gives in? I bet most of the time the rude guy comes out ahead.

 

Maybe more people should not tolerate, reward, or ignore mean-spirited behavior. Maybe we should call it out when it happens.

 

Conversely, we should make a point of giving more weight to kind, conscientious words and actions.

[Lee Flier]

EXACTLY felix. You hit the nail on the head.

[Kiwiburger]

 

For instance - what customer gets what they want in a store - the one who waits politely, talks to the manager kindly, etc, or the guy who loses his temper, makes threats, rants and raves until someone gives in? I bet most of the time the rude guy comes out ahead.

He he - the rude guy only thinks that he's won. In actual fact, he is the guy who gets his food spat on behind the kitchen door - or enhanced with the Chef's "special sauce". He is the one who everybody points to and laughs about behind his back. His chance of winning any friends and influencing people is not very good. He can expect to be shunned socially and many of lifes opportunities will be witheld, simply because people don't really like to help arseholes. They may temporary fear them, for the same of avoiding legal liability - but rude pricks like this only get the public polite face. They don't get to meet the real people behind the face - the people who really make the buying, or hiring or firing decisions.

 

Unfortunately - the more these pricks alienate themselves, the more unsatisfied they become, and the more agressive they become.

 

Ultimately they will die prematurely of a heart attack.

 

So - no, I don't think they are winners at all.

[Brittanylips]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier There is definitely a larger number of people in this country who seem very invested in going out of their way to be mean and polarizing, than there were 20 or even 10 years ago.

 

How do you know that?

 

If I had to guess, I would say that you are as nice if not nicer than I am. So how is it that I find I encounter pretty much the same percentage of mean-spirited bastards today as I did a couple decades ago? And how is that I find that by a large margin, mean bastards are outnumbered by friendly ones?

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Of course it has at times. The Roman Empire took a long time to go to pot, and during that time a lot of people no doubt noticed it was happening and said so, and I'm sure they were often dismissed as a bunch of old farts saying the sky was falling.

 

I'm not doubting your ability to step back and make insightful comments about society. I think you make them all the time. But I just don't buy this one.

 

As for the old farts who were bitching about growing mean-spiritedness while the Roman Empire was disbanding, they were wrong. Arguably the Roman Empire fell apart because it was becoming less mean-spirited: the spread of Christianity undermined the militia mentality among citizen soldiers neccessary to defend the bloated Empire.

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier I also disagree that every aging generation says the world is going to pot. Some generations have felt better about their children's future than they did about their own, and have the general sense that things are getting better. Most recently the folks who lived through the Depression and WWII certainly felt the world was a better place and the future looked brighter after those events were over. There've been plenty of such times in history.

 

There's a difference between economic opportunity and friendliness. Indeed, stories about comeraderie during periods of strife abound. Yet even during periods of strife in which the next seemed bursting with opportunity, authors still decried the end to civility and porch-rockers reminisced about their storied childhoods.

 

In other words, I think the sense that people are becoming less friendly is more about personal experience than big changes in society, good or bad.

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Anyhow I think this is an ad hominem type argument where you're trying to dismiss the message by dismissing the messenger. Either you agree with the point or you don't, regardless who's making it. I also think it's silly to say that it's all a matter of individual perspective, when outside events do actually happen and do influence perspective as well as the reverse.

 

My mother visited me recently. The morning after her arrival, she went to a local coffee shop to get some coffee. When she came back, she commented how rude they were, how the guy serving her coffee treated her as though she were invisible.

 

Whenever I get coffee, that same guy is friendly. Everyone there is always very friendly to me.

 

My mother isn't a rude person (at least not in coffee shops). Nonetheless, after her experience, she concludes people aren't as friendly as they used to be.

 

Anyway, assume it's true. Assume, as you said, "There is definitely a larger number of people in this country who seem very invested in going out of their way to be mean and polarizing, than there were 20 or even 10 years ago.

[Zipperhead]

People don't change. The environment changes and people react to that change in different ways.

 

Stress makes people react in irrational ways. There is a lot of stress around and with the internet, stress from far away can be in your face immediately.

 

I have faith in humanity. I have faith because I did door to door sales for a while a few years back. I sold pictures of Mickey Mouse and sports blooper videos. I didn't go to residences, I only went to businesses. Two out of ten people would throw me out of the store. The rest were polite and would help if they could. What I learned was that the average person just wants to live and let live. This was a very positive lesson for me.

 

I see a lot of exploitation in our culture. I'm not surprised because the US culture is founded on capitalism. Most of what we are exposed to is there to sell us something. The people who write advertizing are very good at what they do. They understand how to manipulate emotions to cause people to go out and buy something.

 

The easiest emotion to expolit is fear. It's a lot more effective to say "If you don't buy this mousetrap, you could be infested within a week!" than "We make high quality mousetraps. Think of us if you need one".

 

So our culture tells us we should be entitled. We should have a bigger car, bigger house, more white teeth, and a million bucks in the bank. If you don't have these things, you should fear being a "loser". You should fear the scorn of your neighbors. You should fear your own self-loathing.

 

This pressure makes people act weird.

 

The antidote to this type of stress is self confidence. Unfortunately, nobody is selling self-confidence. You have to go out and find that for yourself.

 

Who is a happy person? A person who is relaxed I say. Not an easy thing to achieve these days. For me, relaxation is an elusive goal. At this point in my life I value serenity more than a new guitar. It took a long time to get to this point.

 

I find serenity in treating other people as well as I can. I haven't found a better substitute and I doubt that I will. I don't believe in altruism. I'm nice to other people because it's the healthiest thing for me! Again, it took a long time to learn this lesson.

 

More serenity = less meanness.

 

Zip

[Ernest Buckley]

 

I'm NOT saying things were always hunky-dory, by any means. The cold war sucked. The "love generation" turned from idealism to narcissism, and the 80s defined the "me-first" generation. But I don't recall the same level of meanness and polarization we're seeing now. Anyone else seeing the same thing?

 

 

Craig-

I believe this negativity and bleakness is a product of the internet, 24 hour news, etc...

 

In order for one station to compete, it must exaggerate and boom and gloom sells just like sex.

 

Its a sign of the times.

Ernest

 

PS- You may be interested in reading the Tipping Point.

[default_damage]

more mean spirited than before?

rapaciousness stalks the planet in what the last late pope called vicious capitolism, referring to the USA. new world order, war without end, war on terroism?

perhaps only inscale certainly not content.

we are the killer apes.

we destroy everything we contact as a modern species. polluting with materials that have 500,00 year half life , destroying the ozone fouling our water supply and during all of this, we bring hundreds of other species to the brink of extinction.

 

40,000 children die every day from nutritionally related causes (means: starve)

a

on the fourth of july I notice huge fire works displays and the north oakland psych clinic is closed for lack of funding

 

a while back I realized I could stop the war if I didnt fight in it. everyday is the day I attempt to act with kindness without regard to how I feel.

 

I cqn not stop the drug wars in my neighborhood or the warning shots that always find their mark in the middle of a teenagers back.

 

perhaps we have become more mean spirited? perhaps it just gets all the coverage

William buorghs said the most violent form of communication is the newspaper . everyday it tells us people re dangerous and crazy. we are conditioned to believe that by the media

LIVE IN FEAR!

 

yes lets say it's true we are more meanspirited .

and...mean spiritedness ends with me.

spoacal abuse , child abuse , murder rape theift cruelty all end here.

that seems to be the only thing that I can change, myself.

I suppose now that I accept the premise ,I must ask what can I do about it on a minute to minute basis.

how am I going to manifest my being here and now? no one can make that decision for me. which brings to mind.

 

"As I walk through

This wicked world

Searchin for light in the darkness of insanity.

 

I ask myself

Is all hope lost?

Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?

 

And each time I feel like this inside,

Theres one thing I wanna know:

Whats so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh

Whats so funny bout peace love & understanding?"

 

can I get an amen?

[Jon Doe]

The TV/News has become more mean spirited. Pushing the envelope. Shock-jock tactics to try to get a higher percentage of viewership.

 

I don't let it color my opinions of the people I know IRL. All my friends are the very best kind of peoples.