Have People Become More Mean-Spirited?

[blue2blue]

Looks like it's time to haul out Tom Major's Rule of Thirds, again.

To wit:

One third of the people are basically decent, hard working, caring individuals, one third are short-sighted, mean-spirited greedheads, and the other third float back and forth in the middle.



Explains everything...

[Lee Flier]

Yeah blue, in general, I tend to agree with ya there...

[gtrbass]

I guess I've lived enough life to realize that:

A) Mean people suck.

B) Mean people are way more afraid of us than we are of them.

C) It's a good idea to believe in God, life everlasting, and that you will be held accountable for your actions. If it's true (and I for one believe it is) if you are a mean rude sniveling little a-whole in this lifetime you will pay for it. And conversely if it's not true, well at least you've exercised some self restraint and the world was probably a better place for it. So try not to be mean or sh*tty to anybody or you might wind up smokin' a turd in hell for all of etenity.

D) And never forget that people like Hannibal Lecter will always choose to "Eat the Rude" over the charming... and they're out there somewhere.

Here's a scenario:
It's all gone to crap and you and one other person are sitting there in some bunker. You're the "last two people left" and you have one can of peaches between you. What do you do? Do you say "screw the other guy, I'm chowing down these peaches", or do you share what resources you have? One choice means you'll die alone...

[blue2blue]

Originally posted by gtrbass ... B) Mean people are way more afraid of us than we are of them. ...

Boy... THAT is for sure true. The greedy and mean-of-spirit seem to go through life always afraid someone will get more than they have or get the best of them somehow... They seem to view all of life as a zero-sum game and apparently can't imagine a situation where a positive for one person isn't a negative for another. And, it seems to me, THAT is one sad ass way to live.


With regard to divine justice/eternal rewards, it's a comforting way to approach things. I for one would love to think that the Genghis Khans and Hitlers (and others, ahem) will get their just deserts -- one way or another... and if the punishment lasts for all eternity... well, that's between them and Divine Justice, innit?

But I think atheists can also have a very keen sense of morality and ethics -- and when an atheist does "the right thing" you know he's doing it because he believes it is the right thing -- not because he's afraid of the consequences.

[axe2 2001]

Ya, for sure. I think the media has alot to do with it. Most of the reality shows that are poular thrive on people arguing and fighting, and of coarse American Idol makes it's season debut as a show belittling people, and it's a hit. Espn has a guy named Jim Rome, who is a good radio guy. He's good but makes alot of points just slamming and going off on people. It's kindof funny but I think thats a prevailing theme today. People will trash other people to feel better about themselves. Couple that with the fact that people seem far more cut-throat to make a buck. Like the country is turning into a bunch of sleazy used car salesmen and can justify it buy just saying I gotta make a living. Buyer beware has never been so important. I notice things at work have changed alot in the last 15 years. I do Heating and cooling intalls in new construction. We work with all the other trades at some point, in an effort to work together to build a fine home. At least it was that way. Builders that we've been with for 15 years and i've respected the level of commitment to a good product, are now cutting corners and building far less quality homes in persuit of profit. And the "working together" with other trades has turned into screw or be screwed with little regard to how hard you make things for the next guy. But in the effort to be positive, i'll say that there are times when i've seen the best in us under tough circumstances. A small tornado hit a small town not far from me. Luckily, No one killed and not too much damage. But there was a huge outpouring of people ready and willing to lend a hand. Just a shame it takes a crisis to bring out the good folks. I guess it depends what you want to focus on. Again I think the media focuses on bad stuff for ratings. I have a hard time watching the news somtimes because even though it's real, it's 99% negative. I enjoy the science channel alot latley!

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by axe2 2001 Like the country is turning into a bunch of sleazy used car salesmen and can justify it buy just saying I gotta make a living.

HAHAHAHA... that's a killer analogy.

[axe2 2001]

Originally posted by Lee Flier HAHAHAHA... that's a killer analogy.

Maybe so but I think I just got all negative on someone!? (Insert PC stuff here....... ) I only meant to slam the "sleazy" car salesmen, not the honest ones!!

[Ani]

While growing up, I always felt that my grandmother on my mother's side was one of the MEANEST old biddies to ever walk the face of the earth. With her being the mother of two clergymen of the Christian faith, I often felt that GRANNIE was the wicked witch of the west that had been ordained by Satan himself and her sons had sought Christ to redeem their souls and save themselves from the evil spirited clenches of the wretched one.

As I grew into my adulthood, I witnessed my grandmother domineer my mother's life inside her own home with my dad. Grandma was miserable with her own life and she was not happy unless she made everyone around her miserable. She would deliberately throw flames out in every direction trying to start a fire in one place or another; it was almost entertaining, while saddening at the same time, to lay low and watch her feed the fury while not being on her list of targeted "victims". Once she achieved upsetting everyone else, she was perfectly content to sit back and watch while stirring the kettle and tossing out fresh sticks to keep the fire burning.

I hated the way she manipulated my mother and continuously made her cry so eventually I stood up against my grandmother in my mother's defense; a task that no one else was willing to do and a very frightening challenge to take on. Once all was said and done between my grandmother and I, it was a very liberating experience and a "MUTUAL" respect was established.

Having gone back into front line management once again, I am having to deal with PEOPLE'S ATTITUDES on a daily basis. Out of the 100 some people that I've had working in my various units, I have at least four GRANNIES that I am having to deal with; two are the old witches of the west and two are middle aged bats out of hell.... Dare I say this..... all four hellions are women over 50. I haven't had any problems with the men working in my units yet and fortunately it doesn't even seem to be a threat at this time. Two of the women have filed grievances against me for giving them discussions about their performance, but that's to be expected from people that feel they don't need to work to earn their pay. THAT'S an entirely different subject when it comes to people thinking that society OWES a life to them....

[MikeRivers]

Originally posted by UstadKhanAli A result of having to work longer hours, drive in more traffic, and generally be more busy, in my opinion.

Probably as a consequence of technological innovation. See the way off topic argument I'm having in the Mackie 400F thread.

[amplayer]

Originally posted by UstadKhanAli This frantic work pace has resulted in increased stress, poor eating habits and obesity, traffic, smog, congestion, and destroyed families. By today's dollar, the average high school graduate 30 years ago earned the equivalent of $42,000/year. Now, the average high school graduate earns $29,000. If THIS is the definition of "success", I don't want any part of it!

 

 

I fully agree that the long work hours here in the US are bad for us. However, I think the break-up of the family unit has only a little to do with the long work hours.

WRT the low high school wages, IMHO they are justifiably low because most US high school grads have little marketable skills. At the food court in my local mall, I have to order very carefully and only give the worker a simple bill such as a 20 when paying. Otherwise, the worker screws up the order or the change more often than not! How much is a worker like that worth?

[ViLo]

Maberry still exists


When I get tired of mean people, I go there

[deanmass]

Originally posted by gtrbass I guess I've lived enough life to realize that: Here's a scenario: It's all gone to crap and you and one other person are sitting there in some bunker. You're the "last two people left" and you have one can of peaches between you. What do you do? Do you say "screw the other guy, I'm chowing down these peaches", or do you share what resources you have? One choice means you'll die alone...

I'd give them the peaches. They will go mad openign the can, kick off, then I'll have meat OR bait for fish..

I like the rule of thirds thing the best. I also think that much of the tension is because we do not spend enough time playing music:)

[Super 8]

Interesting thread.

I think people are meaner, less patient and more aggressive.

I don't think people understand the meaning of 'community' like they once used to. People live much more insular lives now than they used to. We live seperate in our homes. People prefer to have backyard decks rather than front porches. Contemporary neighborhoods are full of winding streets and cul de sac's, often without sidewalks. When they have a sidewalk, it usually doesn't lead you anywhere, like to a store or a restraunt where you would meet your neighbors in passing.

The way we get places is almost exclusively by car, completely cut off from other people. Roads become congested, and dealing with other people becomes a hassle because they are in your way. We often don't see our neighbors when we are out because we shop at stores, or eat at restraunts all over town.

The media doesn't help either. Everyone is plugged into a device: a computer, a game console, an Ipod, a TV, a car stereo, a cell phone.

People don't really know other people so much as have opinions about them, or reactions to them.
When you have no real sense of community with other people, there is no bond. You live your life, everyone else lives their's. About the only time you interact is when someone smiles and waves, or when someone is pissing you off. More often than not, it seems like it's the later.

We live cloistered lifestyles. People don't understand each other. I think that makes them more impatient and meaner.

[UstadKhanAli]

Okay then. Almost everyone thinks people are meaner. I don't necessarily disagree, but there are so many variables, I just wasn't sure.

So I slept on it, and The Answer came in a Vision...

MEAN PEOPLE ARE HERE BECAUSE OF OVERPOPULATION.
.
.
short but dramatic pause to let the reality sink in.
.
The increase in meaner people is Nature's Way (note all these fun capitalized words here? ) of trimming down the population.

People will keep getting meaner and meaner. No one can do anything about it. It's Nature's Way. Eventually, it'll reach the Point of Know Return (sorry, Kansas fans). Boiling Point. Global War.

Look, it's already happening. Say what you will about Osama bin Laden: he's a terrorist, he's fighting for Mecca, he's against the Great Satan, he's tired of America's meddling in the Middle East, whatever...the simple fact of the matter is that OBL is MEAN.

There's other mean people, too. Kadafhi, The Royal Sauds, Hussein, that wacko from Burma, that world leader who used to eat people, the guy who cut me off on my way to the grocery store yesterday, Kim il Jong...that last guy is even meaner because no one irons his shirts before press conferences!

Mean.

These people are just plain mean.

The Mean People will create War. Then...Killing. Disease. Pestilence. Raining Frogs. The whole bit. We'll blast each other back to the Stone Age.

Mean People are here to thin the herd.

[Hard Truth]

Super 8 just said what I was going to say. I find it sad that many newer suburban bedroom towns are purposefully built to keep people seperate with no sidewalks, no safe place to bicycle, monster homes with small yards protected by fences and gates, no common space, no cultural facilities and miles of shopping malls. Fortunately there is a movement among some planners and architects to fight his tendency. (the New Urbanism)

Ken is on track also. I think war (and criminal violence) should be defined as a "natural, traditional population control method."

[Alanfc]

Originally posted by Billster I think the perception of "mean-spiritedness" is due to an increasingly selfish and provincial society.........................

I too believe its all Selfish.
Selfish is the root of it, which brings out the other behaviors.

But we're still furry animals evolving. We're only just a few steps beyond the lion who eats other baby cubs from other males and spreads his sperm among the females as much he can. HIS seed. Seeking the best advantage for oneself. Thats just evolution and self preservation. (BTW selfish and mean peole make me sick I hate them viciously.. I'm not defending them.)

100% sharing and concern for all humans for each other is still a few thousand years in the future. I'm no zoologist but I don't know of any other critter who has reached this level yet (maybe Ants or bees).

[Raymar]

Sorry, I just don't see any evidence of us getting meaner at all.

[blue2blue]

Originally posted by ViLo Maberry still exists When I get tired of mean people, I go there

True for me... but ONLY the B&W episodes... with Don Knotts/Barney...

I find the color episodes claustrophobic and depressing... AND there's no Barney Fife... the soul of the old show...

(And Thelma Lou is gone, by then, too. I miss Thelma Lou. If I'd been Barney I wouldn't have dithered away my chances, I'd have snapped up that warm and sexy girl next door... she wouldn't have had a chance to marry that tall, handsome lawyer...)

[songrytr]

Manners, respect for others, courtesy and charity are things that need to be taught to little humans as soon as they can grasp the concepts.

If they don't learn it at home, chances are they won't learn it elsewhere.

[Brittanylips]

The grousing of aging generations throughout history notwithstanding, IMHO people share an urge to have positive exchange. And if you're humble and open, the world is a friendly place. Sure there's bad apples, but on a person-to-person level, most people want to be friendly.

-peaceloveandbrittanylips

[UstadKhanAli]

why is it that when people travel, they conclude that OTHER places are friendly? Perhaps travellers are predisposed to friendly interaction. Adopt that attitude where you live, and voila, the sky isn't falling after all. >>

 

Excellent point.

 

I also wanted to point out that, at least where I go, people are frequently friendlier in the sense that they truly are more helpful, and also tend to seek me out more.

 

There's a few variables, though, so it would not be right to blanketly state, "Oh, yeah, people in Peru or India are all more friendly!!". Maybe so...but part of it is that I am traveling, and so helpful people would tend to help out a traveler who is not familiar with the country, and also seek someone out who looks different (I am a magnet for this, as I am over six feet, Chinese, am speaking English or Spanish to them, etc.!!). And finally, part of it is that typically, the traveler is encountering people who are in the business of, essentially, helping travelers (hotels, guides, etc.).

 

That said, the immense generosity that I have experienced has been both humbling and uplifting.

 

I say humbling because when someone insists on inviting me for a very specially prepared dinner in their home while I have on my person, with my camera and clothing, stuff that costs more than they make in an entire year, I am moved almost to the point of tears. The best that any of us can do is try and give back to them as best we can in a genuine, non-patronizing manner and accept their gift as one that is very special.

[UstadKhanAli]

B-Lips, I apparently grabbed some of your words before you edited your post. But yes, almost all people want a positive exchange, agreed. And being humble and open greatly reduces the amount of rudeness.

[Brittanylips]

Originally posted by UstadKhanAli why is it that when people travel, they conclude that OTHER places are friendly? Perhaps travellers are predisposed to friendly interaction. Adopt that attitude where you live, and voila, the sky isn't falling after all. >> Excellent point. I also wanted to point out that, at least where I go, people are frequently friendlier in the sense that they truly are more helpful, and also tend to seek me out more. There's a few variables, though, so it would not be right to blanketly state, "Oh, yeah, people in Peru or India are all more friendly!!". Maybe so...but part of it is that I am traveling, and so helpful people would tend to help out a traveler who is not familiar with the country, and also seek someone out who looks different (I am a magnet for this, as I am over six feet, Chinese, am speaking English or Spanish to them, etc.!!). And finally, part of it is that typically, the traveler is encountering people who are in the business of, essentially, helping travelers (hotels, guides, etc.). That said, the immense generosity that I have experienced has been both humbling and uplifting. I say humbling because when someone insists on inviting me for a very specially prepared dinner in their home while I have on my person, with my camera and clothing, stuff that costs more than they make in an entire year, I am moved almost to the point of tears. The best that any of us can do is try and give back to them as best we can in a genuine, non-patronizing manner and accept their gift as one that is very special.

You caught that before I shortened my response!

i was thinking about your post when i wrote that, by the way.

When you travel (and avoid places like Darfur), I think it's easy to be part of that "world o' friendliness" as you describe. The rolls are distinct, and people make those grand gestures. A Chinese-ish friend of mine who went on to become a chef mentioned to me a couple weeks ago that in Chinese, the greeting for a stranger is "have you eaten?" He's got some great stories about travelling the world in search of food, incidentally.

But I find that on the small scale, absent grand gestures and culturally-defined roles, people generally have a fundamental urge to be just as friendly. And without having to cook a damn thing.

But who knows, maybe part of the human experience is concluding, at some point in your life, that the world is going to pot. Each aging generation seems to think so. But has it ever really been true?

-plb

[blue2blue]

When I was a kid, out of state visitors always used to say, "You Californians are so friendly!"


Boy, those were the good ol' days.

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by Brittanylips When you travel (and avoid places like Darfur), Thanks for the tip! A Chinese-ish friend of mine who went on to become a chef mentioned to me a couple weeks ago that in Chinese, the greeting for a stranger is "have you eaten?" That's actually a surprisingly common sort of greeting in much of Asia, btw, as is "Where are you going?" or "What are you doing?" And it takes some getting used to when they greet you in English with this! As a Westerner (or in my case, a Chinese guy growing up in Western culture - semantics), you may think, "Well, why do you want to know?" But it's just a greeting! But I find that on the small scale, absent grand gestures and culturally-defined roles, people generally have a fundamental urge to be just as friendly. And without having to cook a damn thing. But who knows, maybe part of the human experience is concluding, at some point in your life, that the world is going to pot. Each aging generation seems to think so. But has it ever really been true? -plb

I don't know. I'd be hard-pressed to say definitively one way or another. I do know that I'm treated very nicely almost anywhere I go (then again, I haven't been to Darfur...). Maybe in some respects but not others? The world does get larger and larger in population, with huge growing population centers. And maybe, many of the "niceties" of living in crowded places go out the window.

OTOH, with so much of the world still living a largely agricultural lifestyle (and not in large cities), that's still a lot of people who aren't living in a massive urban area...and a lot of those people are still quite laid-back and friendly.

And then again, I can point out a lot of different exceptions.

In Lima, Peru, a city of 12 million people (nearly half the population of Peru), my cousin and I asked for directions to a restaurant. The lady was walking the opposite way, on her way home from work. She said, "Come, I'll take you there." We pleaded with her, "No, please, that's not necessary. Just tell us where it is." She insisted that she take us there. "It's very close," she said. It ended up being 7 blocks away, probably a half mile walk in the opposite direction of where she was walking.

I've had very similar experiences in other large cities, such as Casablanca (a lady took me about 5-6 blocks to a bus depot), Yangon (Rangoon) in Burma, where a couple saw that we couldn't get a taxi and drove us several miles to our hotel, a lot of experiences with friendly people in India, Ghana, Spain and elsewhere. I've been invited to have tea or dinner quite a few times in Peru, Morocco, Ladakh, and Ghana, India, and been invited to attend a wedding twice (Peru and Morocco). I've also found most Western travelers to be extremely friendly.

So, in the end, it's difficult for me to determine whether people are getting meaner or not. But I do know that I am treated really well almost anywhere I go - including Los Angeles and much of the U.S. - and feel it's important to be open and friendly and receptive to that.