Maybe It's NOT "All About the Music"

Like so many others here, I believe that "it's all about the music."

But I wonder...

I was thinking about this in the context of the American Idol finals, where the winner was clearly the weaker of the two. But, he had this sort of lost puppy dog look, this "Gosh, imagine me being here! I can't believe it!" and I think he was sincere in his humility. People picked up on this, and they voted for him for reasons that probably didn't have much to do with music. It IS a popularity contest, but I'm not sure that phenomenon is limited to American Idol.

The onslaught of young nubiles with (pitch-corrected, LOL) hits is another example. If Grace Slick as she is today sounded EXACTLY like Taylor Swift, would she sell as many records? I doubt it.

So as discouraging as it seems, if someone wants to know if they can make it these days, an A&R person should probably ask for a photo first...and if that passes muster, then listen to the music. You can't sell music anymore; you have to sell a complete package, or nothing's going to happen.

Or am I just being too cynical?

Well, I can't speak to American Idol specifically

I guess the thing I initially have a problem is "IT" without an antecedent in, "it's all about the music"

what is "it"?

I think that may be the problem if you are feeling too cynical...we can fall into the trap of defining "it" to fit exactly our experiences and opinions

and those things that don't match are 'around sure, but clearly not part of the "it" we are concerned with'

it can be seductive as we can use "it" as a tool to cast ourselves as the heroic cognoscenti and the "it" a Stephen King style "It" monster

Are you kidding Craig? Getting desperate for topics?

Its not about the music. Its about image. Its been since MTV exploded. What planet are you on? Most successful rock bands/artists these days all have a "look" and most of them are really skinny. Most female artists are HOT, even the songwriters... may not be the best songwriters but they sure look good.

My advice to kids these days.. work on your image first, then your stage persona, then the music. I know that sound backwards but the music industry is backwards.

No, it's because here we are all talking about music, and we're not talking about the other components at all. I guess those topics are better for the Music Biz thread, though...

I think that a lot of times, people with really strong personalities such as your example, Grace Slick, may get stamped out in the process, either from A&R people looking for the "right pop star" or from the recording process.

I agree with Ernest, I was always thin, tall and toned...I love black clothes, leather, Brit Pop look, Hair was/is spiked and styled.

Image goes hand in hand with talent...but the image will get you the gig, over talent sometimes.

Girls would rather see a a guy with a low slung guitar and a lean hungry look than a corpulent Jerry Garcia look alike, in a flannel shirt strumming chords and dancing 'The white man plow dance' as my wife calls it.

You know the dance Craig, you kinda stand in a fixed position and paw at the ground with one leg.

Oh, and BTW. Anderton ...I tried to subtlely correct you before, but you continue on with 'raising the bar'

It's Barre, like in Ballet?...you raise the Barre as you improve your projected leg rise.:poke:

As a child, I was only let out of my cage to limbo for tourists.

In my parlance, "raise the bar" means to hold one to lesser expectations in hopes of a better tip

and "lower the bar" means to sabotage another's efforts so that you can steal his or her ration of bread while he is beat across the soles of the feet

OK, so that means "it" is just the music?

as in "The music is all about the music"

sure, I think we can agree on that, it's a logical ... tautology (a statement that always evals true) is I believe the right term

but if we put "it" as "commercial success by way of x units of a recording sold"

or something else then we're talking about something besides music ("it" is moving units for instance)

Audiences HAVE to feel sorry for you. A little bit. If they don't feel sorry for you at all? You'll never be a big star. Audiences NEED to feel slightly superior than their musical acts.

Look at Susan Boyle. Yes, there's talent; but we felt sorry for her, too, looks-wise and class-wise, and that was her masterstroke. Just as Simon Cowell knew it would be when he searched her out and hand-picked her.

When I went to Berklee, I saw that my being Southern--white---Irish--upper middle class--- well-fed---- apple-cheeked

...was a HUGE liability for me. Why? I came from America's traditional "ruling class". And that will never...never.....never...do, in popular American entertainment. The black students at Berklee even told me as much, verbatim.

At Berklee, you had to be Ethnic. And From the East Coast streets. Or gussy yourself up as such. Or you were nothing. Regardless of talent.

We love our mythologies of Little Stevie Wonder. Ray Charles. Loretta Lynn. Dolly Parton. Johnny Cash. Frank Sinatra. Jerry Lee Lewis.

Stevie Wonder is a flipping, jaw-dropping genius. But his black skin and dark glasses...MADE his career. That poor son of a bitch!

When it became fashionable---- but ONLY then---- Linda Ronstadt cashed in on her "simple" Mexican roots (though her Arizona family was richer than God). She couldn't work the "sex kitten" angle anymore, so she worked the "Oh-That-Poor-Son-Of-A-Bitch" angle.

When Jim Morrison made it big, he QUICKLY disguised his very comfortable, middle-class, Military-family roots. He made up bull{censored} stories about being an orphan and whatnot. Never spoke again of his UCLA film school education. He was no fool. The hippies in his audiences had to feel sorry for him......a little.

Vanilla Ice did the same thing. He was smart. He wasn't from Dallas white wealth. No-no, he was "the only white boy on the rough black streets". It worked... for awhile. Long enough.

Naomi & Wynnona Judd were not born with those firstnames or surname at all. They named themselves that because those names sound kind of hillbilly, ungainly and countri-fied.

Comedian Jerry Lewis: "The greatest entertainers come from the working classes."

Burt Bacharach and Carole King both came from great wealth; but how did they first gain their fame? By having inner-city black "waifs" sing their songs. (Of course, Dionne was highly music college educated. But the public didn't know that. She was still prevented, in 1964, from staying overnight at a New Orleans Hotel. EXCELLENT street cred!)

When Crystal Gayle made it, Loretta Lynn (her sister) said: "Crystal was born to Momma 'n' Deddy after they'd made some money. She was raised rich." And when the public got an earful of THAT? Much lustre receded pronto from Crystal's career. Which sister remains the star today?

John Lennon wrote "Working Class Hero".................even though Auntie Mimi was solidly Liverpool middle class.

Critics told Mary Wilson of The Supremes that "those girls have strayed from their musical roots and need to get back to the Black Church". Mary was incredulous at this: "In our home we listened to classical, country, showtunes, white pop, EVERYTHING. I didn't come from the black church." But her audiences wanted to feel sorry for her. A little.

At the time of this writing, being a gay female pop artist works well as Poor-Son-Of-A-Bitch. But not gay male, sadly: audiences must feel sorry for you, and gay male is still too taboo and disgusting and kinky to feel sorry for. When Americans found out Freddie Mercury was gay (the clone-y t-shirt and moustache on the video gave him away)? He had NO more hits in the USA. David Bowie married to cover his ass, Stateside, where the Big money is. It works for George Michael--- kinda, sorta--- in the UK.... but not in the USA. He'll NEVER have another career here. Nor will Clay Aiken. Ricky Martin just sealed his own doom in the USA. When Backstreet Boys or NKOTB come out? Their career is mud. Let's hope they saved some o' that teeny-bop money. For whatever reason, gay male is not Poor-Son-Of-A-Bitch. Gay female is Poor-Son-Of-A-Bitch. IF she's kinda pretty, you know, like Melissa Etheridge or Joan Jett? and a guy would still wanna {censored} her. We haven't heard from ol' K.D. in a long time, have we?

Bob Dylan's first promo photographs showed him skinny, scruffy, in rags, and seated cross-legged on a Manhattan sidewalk. But he came from the very comfortable middle-class in Minnesota. But he was smart. The kids needed to feel sorry for him. A little. Dylan understood the dynamic of:

Get your history straight, those are historical FACTS

Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder travelled the country together in poverty for YEARS each thinking the other was the sighted guy guiding them and counting money.

Only when Frank Sinatra almost drove into them while staring at his cousin Dolly Parton's cleavage, did they meet when Cash and Loretta Lynn showed up in an ambulance made of spare caddy parts.

Bobbie Zimmermans Jewish daddy owned an appliance store....his opening line to new customers...'for my own mother I wouldn't give such a deal..."

We, as impressional young musicians thought HE (Bobby) was Woodys son, not Arlo.

Yeah, of course it's pretty much about the image first, and music second, with the "general public." There are very few exceptions to that, especially if you're female. But when you consider that most people choose their mate based on appearance first - the most important decision they'll ever make in their life - it's hard to really take it personally. Humans are visual - stupidly visual.

But of course, if you want to have any staying power you'd better eventually have something to back up your image. That's when it becomes all about the music.

Oh, I see,

Well, that certainly puts things in perspective.

I enjoy music, making it and hearing it. I have no desire nor attempt to seek fame or fortune. If someone did want those things, they'd better be really, really, really focused on image. Above and beyond music.

But as I said, for me, it really is about the music. Image is about as much of a priority for me as it is to most sculptors, or woodworkers.

Definitely agree with you on the life long spouse thingy... its definitely visual first, then personality...

As for staying power... Madonna has made a career out of her image. She doesn`t have the greatest voice, writes with other talented songwriters and can`t play a lick but she is without a doubt one of the most "successful" "artists" out there. So its not really about the music in her case or Shania Twain or Brittany or... I can go on....

Its about being business smart first and using your image to get ahead and then when you`re in the position to call the shots, being smart enough to know who to hire to keep you front page... ITS ALL IMAGE.

Not that I`m hoping for this but if John Mayer gained about a hundred pounds, I`d be curious to see if he were still popular with women. The image thing goes both ways. Most rock bands that are successful work on their image first and foremost.

I`m more in agreement with Jeff, we don`t do it for fame or fortune, its about being yourself and writing from the heart/soul... Thats when its about the music.

I always felt this way but could never articulate it until I read Victor L. Wooten's book "The Music Lesson".

I believe that the music exists separately and manifests itself through us, the musicians, when we surrender to it. There are different degrees of surrender and that results in different types of music. Some music seems to be divine and other music may appear obviously contrived.

When a musician can put their ego aside and release all expectations and be completely in service to the music that is when it becomes all about the music.

The really great ones can make it on the basis of the music alone but most of us require a little help along the way and there is nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't get too out of balance.

I think you're pretty much on target if you're talking about the 2 or 3 big mainstream pop acts or the handful of POP country auto-tuned faces...Other then that there is an audience out there for sincere singer singer songwriters who are good at what they do and have something to say. It's a much smaller niche but if you're good and you get out there you can still have a small career and pay your bills...There ain't much in between anymore however...I have to believe what comes around goes around and eventually people will begin to miss good singing and good musicianship.

You're out of your mind son. I have never lost a gig to a pretty boy who couln't play...Never will either.

Thats because you`re probably playing to a room full of old geezers. And you`re probably one of them!

Try getting a gig at a place here in NYC where you not only have to sound a certain way, but you have to look it and you also have to guarantee a certain amount of people showing up so you can collect your $20 at the end of the night.

I`m curious, where are you from and where do you play these days?

We are all coming from completely different parts of the world. Someones reality in a small town of 250 in Iowa is not the same as NYC.

Thats because you`re probably playing to a room full of old geezers. And you`re probably one of them! Try getting a gig at a place here in NYC where you not only have to sound a certain way, but you have to look it and you also have to guarantee a certain amount of people showing up so you can collect your $20 at the end of the night. I`m curious, where are you from and where do you play these days? We are all coming from completely different parts of the world. Someones reality in a small town of 250 in Iowa is not the same as NYC.

I'm in LA...Just did 2 years of touring mostly in Europe but I've played everywhere..I'm 39..Look 30 at most...Don't wear Skinny jeans or try to have a pop haircut. I have and could play NYC but for the same reasons you stated, I have no desire to anymore. I'll leave it to the young and pretty as I collect my Pay for gigs:) To each his own.

When you get to the level of "stardom," it ceases to be about the music for most. In Nashville, it seems you have to be a stud who looks good in a cowboy hat, or an underage (but cute) female with plenty of sex appeal. Hip hop seems to be all about firearms and bling and huge egos and bad attitude -- but you can be fat. Rockers still need to look like tattooed heroin users who barely have the body mass and strength to hold up their Les Pauls -- no fattys need apply. Pop stars must be appealing to Middle America in a Harry Connick, Jr./Michael Buble/John Legend/Celine Dion fashion -- but a little edge is permitted (not too much, though). Then there's the total freak option that's available in select genres (The now-tame Alice Cooper through Marilyn Manson). And then, there's combinations of the above.

There are occasional exceptions like John Popper (Blues Traveler) and Colt Ford. And in keeping with the Poor-Son-Of-A-Bitch syndrome, addictions and stints in rehab are de rigueur for keeping one's star shining (Amy Winehouse, Keith Urban).

Bottom line -- if you're a normal well-adjusted human being, forget that career in music. But then, who amongst us is normal or well-adjusted?

Not everyone thought that Lee was the weaker of the two. I was pulling for Crystal to win for quite a while, but in the end voted for Lee to win. Crystal has a great personality and presence, but after a while her voice gets annoying when she tries to "belt" out a song. My girlfriend basically said the same thing about her, so I wonder if this could have been a factor in her not winning?

"it" = entertainemnt

music = music

They are not mutually exclusive and I'd venture a guess that if you turned on the TV or any other mainstream outlet looking for "music", you're barking up the wrong tree.