Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 Besides....I did actually purchase my G4. Uh, nine years ago. I just put in two fresh new 400G Seagate drives (that I purchased :p ) and now, even as we type, I'm installing OS 10.5.4 (that I also purchased :p ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I ran into a couple of snags with the installation, but eventually bypassed them. I installed the update, OS 10.5.5 and all seems good. I can't wait to get Pro Tools and some other stuff installed and see how this computer performs. It'll be nice working on an audio computer that was made after the millenium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 Will Lee or I be able to install another faster CPU that uses Intel Dual Core processors now or in the future?I'm not sure, but I would guess that Will Lee would be more likely to just buy a new dedicated audio computer than upgrade components within his old one--assuming he's not recording to two-inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duddits Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 Therefore, Apple will do everything possible to convince you of the need to buy new hardware, including such things as producing new operating systems that are not backward-compatible with older hardware.Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company (I'm not including Zune, LOL) and they make their money by being compatible with as much hardware as humanly possible. It is still possible run software written in 1995 on Windows XP. Trying running Mac software written in 1995 on an Intel Mac. I agree with your hardware/software dichotomy, but I think the compatibility issue is more murky. Apple's new OS's are backwards compatible to around 2 generations. Leopard is technically compatible with G4s, Tiger with G3s. Meanwhile, Windows XP is an older OS, released 7 years ago, so it's going to be compatible with older software. How much hardware from 1995 does Vista run on? At the same time, Apple's rift between G5 and intel was a one time event to move the processor architecture to a better platform, not a strategy to force obsolesce. There's always a dance between software and hardware dragging the other side to upgrade. There's a cynical side to it, an industry force feeding itself with new sales, but it's also just the nature of progress, and on both Mac or PC. Thinking about it, new OS's on the Mac haven't made me upgrade my hardware. Actually, for Mac and PC, increasingly new OS's don't seem to make people upgrade anything. The advancement from one version to another seems less Earth shattering than it once was. For example, I have a G5 Quad that I use for music apps. I'm running Tiger on it, not Leopard, and have no burning need to upgrade to Leopard. If anything, I'm more interested in upgrading the hardware than software. I take it there's a few Windows XP users out there who feel the same way. However, if I do upgrade to Leopard, my hardware would easily support it. Have you had any experience where an Apple OS update is not backwards compatible with hardware produced within, say, 5 years of the upgrade, even with the switch to intel? Apple's push to sell hardware seems more driven by offering new features and designs than baked in obsolescence. Take iPods, for example. No iPod has ever been made incompatible by newer software. The first generation iPod works with the latest generation itunes. Yet iTards upgrade like bunnies. It appears to be new features and designs the serial upgraders are chasing rather than compatibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm not sure, but I would guess that Will Lee would be more likely to just buy a new dedicated audio computer than upgrade components within his old one--assuming he's not recording to two-inch. We found out that upgrading the G5's CPU to Intel is either impossible or such a hassle that it's not worth it....a non-issue with Lee now that he is going with a new iMac. And obviously, that's what I'll do when this machine becomes too slow for my needs (unless I go PC, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowendnyc Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'll tell ya, I bought a refurb dual 2ghz G5 back in the fall of 2004 and have been amazed by the fact that this computer has been so resistant to becoming obsolete. I know the PPC era is over and Leopard, which I think was a {censored} upgrade, is the last dance, software wise. That said, my set up of Logic 8, Live 7 and Reason 2.5, with 2 gigs of RAM, continues to do the trick for my music. What I do doesn't rely on heavy soft synth stuff or anything like this. I'm able to track and record stuff to this day just as well as I did the day I got the machine. Honestly, I'm not really sure what more horsepower would get me. The only really power issues I've ever had are Logic projects at their end point. There have been times on some songs when a project had all the mastering stuff on and would struggle to play all the way through. But I was doing that at pretty low latency so there was a path around that. The G5 remains perfectly adequate for other stuff like web surfing. The only spot I could really use the power is when I mess around with iMovie and iDVD, but at this point, I don't do it enough to pay up for the privilege. At this point, my only worry is that the G5 will start to die of old age. Otherwise, best machine I've ever owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I just installed Leopard 10.5.5 (including the update), so hopefully it'll all work out fine. I'll update the OS periodically so hopefully it will be stable. The next project is to try and transfer the old iTunes library to the G5, but I've printed out a few things that look like they will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I operate a er 24" 2,8 GHz iMac with protools for voice-over recording only, it works perfect. Otherwise this machine is too slow for most other applications we use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowendnyc Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I operate a er 24" 2,8 GHz iMac with protools for voice-over recording only, it works perfect.Otherwise this machine is too slow for most other applications we use. What other music stuff are you doing that's outstripping that machine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 What other music stuff are you doing that's outstripping that machine? This iMac is only for voice-over recording and standing in front of a voice-over booth. My comment on the slowness of all Mac is not based on using it for music, but for compositing and cutting 2K high definition video. For example the fastest Mac renders 1.5 frames per second, the fastest dual core windows machine renders 22 pictures per second. This just to give you an idea how slow Macs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed A. Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I edit high definition video on a Mac with Final Cut Pro and I think that your claim is somewhat exaggerated. There is no way that the fastest dual core Windows machine will out-perform the fastest 8 core Mac Pro, especially not by 15 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 Uh oh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed A. Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 Just pointing out the hyperbole, with no intention of starting a Mac/PC war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 I agree with your hardware/software dichotomy, but I think the compatibility issue is more murky. Apple's new OS's are backwards compatible to around 2 generations. Leopard is technically compatible with G4s, Tiger with G3s. Yes, but damn, it's slow. I tried running OS X on my G3 laptop a while ago and wanted to throw it across the room. I stuck with OS 9 on that puppy. Meanwhile, Windows XP is an older OS, released 7 years ago, so it's going to be compatible with older software. How much hardware from 1995 does Vista run on? Actually, I was shocked that I could run Camtasia screen capture v1.0, bought around the same time as the introduction of Windows 98 (not even SE) on my 64-bit Vista machine. Whoa...that was a surprise. It runs really, really fast, too And don't forget that while XP is old, it has had three very significant updates. At the same time, Apple's rift between G5 and intel was a one time event to move the processor architecture to a better platform, not a strategy to force obsolesce. I didn't say it was a strategy to force obsolescence; I said Apple would do everything possible to convince you to buy new hardware. Nothing evil about that--they're saying "Hey, we were wrong about RISC, but we can give you much better performance with this here Intel thingie." Okay. You don't have to buy it. But remember, I've been using Macs for over 23 years. There have been plenty of times when new software won't support older hardware, and newer hardware won't support older software. I've encountered less of that with Windows, although Windows is not immune, either. There's always a dance between software and hardware dragging the other side to upgrade. There's a cynical side to it, an industry force feeding itself with new sales, but it's also just the nature of progress, and on both Mac or PC. Yup. It sure is convenient that progress enables them to stay in business! But that's cool with me, I wouldn't go back to my Pentium II or Mac IIci for anything. Thinking about it, new OS's on the Mac haven't made me upgrade my hardware. I'm kind of the opposite. When I make a major software upgrade, I do so on a new computer. If nothing else, it seems the newer the OS, the more RAM it wants. Remember when minimum system requirements were "128MB RAM, 100MHz or greater processor?" For example, I have a G5 Quad that I use for music apps. I'm running Tiger on it, not Leopard, and have no burning need to upgrade to Leopard. If anything, I'm more interested in upgrading the hardware than software. I take it there's a few Windows XP users out there who feel the same way. However, if I do upgrade to Leopard, my hardware would easily support it. And rumor has it Leopard will be the last Mac OS to support PPC...we'll see. One music software company estimated that 50% of their user base was still on PPC, so the transition to Intel is certainly not complete yet. Have you had any experience where an Apple OS update is not backwards compatible with hardware produced within, say, 5 years of the upgrade, even with the switch to intel? Yes, but those memories are lost in the mists of time...things like Mac Clones...which Apple DID officially approve/support. There were others, too. Apple's push to sell hardware seems more driven by offering new features and designs than baked in obsolescence. Take iPods, for example. No iPod has ever been made incompatible by newer software. The first generation iPod works with the latest generation itunes. Yet iTards upgrade like bunnies. It appears to be new features and designs the serial upgraders are chasing rather than compatibility. I didn't say it was planned obsolescence, I said that Apple wanted to convince you to buy new hardware. And they do! I guarantee you'll never see an Apple ad that says, "Hey, keep your current computer. It just works, right? You don't really need to do things faster." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tfortier Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 Be careful though, My sister just buyed a new 24" imac even if I found her a better pc with 24inch monitor for half the price. When she tried to install CS3 softwares, most of them would not install. It appeared she got a refurbished Imac even if she paid for a new machine. All CS3 softwares had already been install on the machine. And also dont forget the new i7 processor form intel are coming in 16 days... Apple will probably not have them until 1 or 2 years. They beat any duo2core or Xeon out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 6, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well, I bought the iMac 20 minutes ago. Dual Core 2.4 GHz. Now I buy an external Firewire 800 drive with the Oxford 924 chipset per Digidesign. And RAM... So I ask how much the 4 gig RAM kit is at the Apple store. 200 bones. Excuse me? What year is this? How much at the Best Buy Store? 200 smackers again. #$%^ me! So I check Kingston and Crucial online... 75 bucks, OK, much better. How about Corsair's top of the line groovy RAM? 75 bucks for a 4 gig kit and an additional 35 dollar rebate. 40 bucks when it's all said and done!!! That is quite a disparity. Of course I'll be buying it at the Apple store for sure! You know, cause it's all trendy and the clerks have hair color and goatees. I love all the back lit white and brushed aluminum and slate flooring. Well worth the additional 165 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted November 6, 2008 Members Share Posted November 6, 2008 I edit high definition video on a Mac with Final Cut Pro and I think that your claim is somewhat exaggerated. There is no way that the fastest dual core Windows machine will out-perform the fastest 8 core Mac Pro, especially not by 15 times. Well, I would be surprised when a quad core MAC would outperform a quad core PC. The fastes machine here at the moment is a quadrupel motherboard Intel Quad-Core, it did ost ten grand to build it, the same processing power with MAC's would cost 40 grands. Anyway, if anyone want edit 1080i high definition, just make sure your hard drive sport at least a transfer rate of 240 MB per/sec, that just good enough for one stream of 10-bit 1920x1080 60i video compressed in ProRes 422 HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted November 6, 2008 Members Share Posted November 6, 2008 So I ask how much the 4 gig RAM kit is at the Apple store. 200 bones. Excuse me? What year is this? How much at the Best Buy Store? 200 smackers again. #$%^ me! So I check Kingston and Crucial online... 75 bucks, OK, much better. How about Corsair's top of the line groovy RAM? 75 bucks for a 4 gig kit and an additional 35 dollar rebate. 40 bucks when it's all said and done!!! Check Macsales.com or one of the other Mac specialty shops for memory - the Mac community has been buying its RAM from such stores for years instead of from Apple. PC vs. Mac performance argument = irrelevant. At least until Snow Leopard comes out, and even then the difference will only be seen on Macs that have certain Nvidia graphics boards, as the new OS is designed to take advantage of the parallel computing potential of these boards, which could have anywhere from 16 to 32 processors onboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted November 7, 2008 Check Macsales.com or one of the other Mac specialty shops for memory - the Mac community has been buying its RAM from such stores for years instead of from Apple. Thank you! Perfect. $59 without any rebate required. Perfect. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Check Macsales.com or one of the other Mac specialty shops for memory - the Mac community has been buying its RAM from such stores for years instead of from Apple. Can I ask you something? What is "The Mac Community"? I've owned a Mac for almost nine years, and still don't get what a "Mac Community" is. Are there meetings? Hor's d'oeuvres? Buttons or stickers? Community halls or meeting places? Fun hats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 7, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted November 7, 2008 Can I ask you something? What is "The Mac Community"? I've owned a Mac for almost nine years, and still don't get what a "Mac Community" is. Are there meetings? Hor's d'oeuvres? Buttons or stickers? Community halls or meeting places? Fun hats?Well I just ordered the RAM and am munching the most amazing antipasti. Where've you've been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 7sickstrings Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Can I ask you something? What is "The Mac Community"? I've owned a Mac for almost nine years, and still don't get what a "Mac Community" is. Are there meetings? Hor's d'oeuvres? Buttons or stickers? Community halls or meeting places? Fun hats? I'm not sure about the community halls, but the meetings are usually held at coffee shops. Not Starbucks, since we Mac users are above all that trendiness. Also, stickers are available. Initially they were rainbow colored apples, but since the rainbow was hijacked, we've switched to the white vinyl apple. As for the hats, those are a bit like a jedi's lightsaber. You have to make your own. The most common material used is aluminum foil. It helps keep the PC geeks from stealing our thoughts with their wifi hotspots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Can I ask you something? What is "The Mac Community"? I've owned a Mac for almost nine years, and still don't get what a "Mac Community" is. Are there meetings? Hor's d'oeuvres? Buttons or stickers? Community halls or meeting places? Fun hats? I really meant the daw_mac Yahoo Group instead of "Mac community". That's a group dominated by Mac users who are serious about recording and aren't as given to fanboy-like behavior or blind corporate allegiance as in other places. They do tend to go overboard with the non-Apple gear snobbery - I'm talking about $1000 min. mics, Blue Sky monitors, etc. On the other hand, that's where I first heard about alternative (to Apple) sources of RAM. I'm always ready to learn useful knowledge, sir. If you know of better places to buy quality Mac RAM at low prices, speak up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members girevik Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Thank you! Perfect. $59 without any rebate required. Perfect. Thanks again. Glad to be of help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members piersonm Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Noooo, Luke don't go to the darkside!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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