Use a Tube Amp? You're not truly Green.

[UstadKhanAli]

I use my tube amp when I need to, and turn it off when I don't use it.

 

I'm not completely green anyway. I recycle, turn the lights off when I am not using them, grow some of my own vegetables, and walk to the a couple of stores.

 

However, I also speed on the freeway, use products with rubber and styrofoam, and use my air conditioning when it gets really hot.

[Lee Flier]

 

You're right in saying the constant resurfacing (the grooves are called "ruts") is due to trucks. Setting up light rail isn't going to get rid of the trucks, and even if all the cars were eliminated entirely it would make only the tiniest difference in the life cycle cost of the roadway (i.e. time between repair / rehab / reconstruction cycles).

 

 

That's why we need to have more freight trains again, too.

[MrKnobs]

That's why we need to have more freight trains again, too.

 

I agree 10,000 percent!!!

 

Rail is an extremely fuel efficient way to move high volume / weight, low value / ton cargo. Trucks don't even come close in fuel efficiency, let alone considering the roadway damage, congestion, and accident figures.

 

Why isn't rail used more?

 

One reason only: lobbyists! The American Trucking Association has one of the strongest lobbies in DC, it's just astonishing!

 

In 1991 I wrote a KEY paper which was published by the National Academy of Science (Transportation Research Board sub-unit) that, in retrospect, might be the most important piece of work I've done since I stopped working in medical research.

 

At the time, Brookings Institute, which was apparently for hire, had just published a book claiming the pioneering work establishing the relationship between axle weight and damage was fundamentally flawed by improper experiment design. They proposed that trucks actually do much less damage to the pavement than previously thought, and that the over the road taxes on trucks should be reduced, and the legally allowed axle weights increased.

 

So the lobbyists lined up, with the ATA on one side and the American Automobile Association allied with General Electric on the other. I got paid to read the book and attempt to refute it.

 

I didn't know anything about economics, so I tried to pass. As it turned out, it was painfully easy. The results of both were presented to Congress. Our lobbyists won, theirs lost. At least for now. All the lobbyists and lawyers came down to a ranch in central texas and we drank, ate, celebrated, and talked to the (professional) girls they brought in until the break of dawn. Good times, huge money.

 

When I was a younger researcher, I hoped that one day costs would be assigned properly to activities, so we could do the right thing with taxpayer dollars. I also hoped - even believed at one point - that research was honest and impartial, regardless of funding source.

 

I'm not a young researcher anymore.

 

Terry D.

[Lee Flier]

I agree 10,000 percent!!! Rail is an extremely fuel efficient way to move high volume / weight, low value / ton cargo. Trucks don't even come close in fuel efficiency, let alone considering the roadway damage, congestion, and accident figures. Why isn't rail used more? One reason only: lobbyists! The American Trucking Association has one of the strongest lobbies in DC, it's just astonishing!

 

Yeah. That's just plain effed up. The amount of damage trucks do to roads and the danger they pose to other drivers is just off the hook, apart from the fuel efficiency problems.

 

Bring back the freakin railroads! How many people wouldn't love it if trains were as grand and well appointed and ubiquitous as they were a century ago!

[Hard Truth]

 

What is so offensive about trying to live conscientious, ethical life according to your best understanding?

 

 

It makes selfish people feel bad for a couple of seconds.

[BlueStrat]

 

It makes selfish people feel bad for a couple of seconds.

 

 

 

The term 'selfish people' is redundant. We are by nature selfish.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Bring back the freakin railroads! How many people wouldn't love it if trains were as grand and well appointed and ubiquitous as they were a century ago!

 

 

I love traveling by train, and have been saying for years that it's the most elegant form of travel. Even when the train itself is not posh, there's still a great deal of comfort.

 

I've traveled all over India in trains for the last twenty years. Old trains, new trains, air conditioned trains, no air conditioning, super posh, "cattle trains". It was all good. India travels on the trains. Twenty years ago, many farmers traveled with their chickens and produce and passed around chapatis and dal, communal style, sharing food and laughing and talking. I've talked for hours with everyone from rural people to professors of Sanskrit on those trains. I've slept comfortably, lulled by the ever-present rhythm of the train on the tracks. I've gotten up to walk around, take showers, or stand and look out open doors at the passing countryside. The window in the compartment is like a frame to the outside world, which is constantly changing.

 

Even if trains aren't super posh, they offer such a fantastic alternative to freeway driving or flying on a plane.

[Lee Flier]

 

The term 'selfish people' is redundant. We are by nature selfish.

 

 

We have both innate selfishness and innate empathy. Both our necessary to our survival, and our inner selves are always doing a kind of dance between the two. When somebody gets labeled a "selfish person" it's usually because they seem to be hiding the empathy gene somewhere and letting the selfish, mean spirited one rule their lives. I've seen a lot of that in recent years - people who just follow this reflexive knee jerk desire to piss all over anyone who shows empathy or tries to live in a conscious way at all. It's like they're proud of ditching any form of civility or dignity or of course giving a crap about anyone else.

 

We also have brains and logic, which sometimes conflict with our instincts. Even a mostly selfish person can usually see (if they thought about it) that things like energy independence are good for them and their families in the long term, but in the short term they might not want to think about it, they might want to buy a new TV instead of insulating their house, etc. Or they might be status conscious - engaged in the "keep up with the Joneses" mentality that insists on being wasteful and extravagant. They might be scared to do anything "different" if their neighbors aren't doing it too, or they might think that if they do their part and their neighbors don't, their part is futile. So a kind of cynical inertia sets in.

 

I think we're at a point though where American society in general will be less tolerant of wastefulness. Necessity always leads to innovation and once people see how cool it is to be energy independent, they'll probably laugh at these times and think we were all idiots for not making it happen sooner.

[Lee Flier]

 

I love traveling by train, and have been saying for years that it's the most elegant form of travel. Even when the train itself is not posh, there's still a great deal of comfort.

 

 

Yeah, there really is something soul satisfying about trains, isn't there? I sure hope, for so many reasons, that we get serious about bringing them back.

[BlueStrat]

 

We have both innate selfishness and innate empathy. Both our necessary to our survival, and our inner selves are always doing a kind of dance between the two. When somebody gets labeled a "selfish person" it's usually because they seem to be hiding the empathy gene somewhere and letting the selfish, mean spirited one rule their lives. I've seen a lot of that in recent years - people who just follow this reflexive knee jerk desire to piss all over anyone who shows empathy or tries to live in a conscious way at all. It's like they're proud of ditching any form of civility or dignity or of course giving a crap about anyone else. We also have brains and logic, which sometimes conflict with our instincts. Even a mostly selfish person can usually see (if they thought about it) that things like energy independence are good for them and their families in the long term, but in the short term they might not want to think about it, they might want to buy a new TV instead of insulating their house, etc. Or they might be status conscious - engaged in the "keep up with the Joneses" mentality that insists on being wasteful and extravagant. They might be scared to do anything "different" if their neighbors aren't doing it too, or they might think that if they do their part and their neighbors don't, their part is futile. So a kind of cynical inertia sets in. I think we're at a point though where American society in general will be less tolerant of wastefulness. Necessity always leads to innovation and once people see how cool it is to be energy independent, they'll probably laugh at these times and think we were all idiots for not making it happen sooner.

 

 

Well, yes, all of our base instincts are to be overcome. Every day I'm confronted with an opportunity to take what isn't mine, to cheat on my wife, to slack off at work, to disregard laws of all kinds. I don't because I know what can happen if I do those things, and I don't want to do those things, but it doesn't mean the thought of doing them doesn't ever cross my mind. I just think it's silly to think that at some point we can be completely rid of selfishness because it so inextricably linked to self preservation. When it comes down to brass tacks, nearly every man is for himself in the end. That's why they give medals of honor to guys who throw themselves on grenades: it's so damn rare when it happens.

 

Every time I think I am free of selfishness and have become altruistic, all I have to do is get a stuck in a line or in a traffic jam and all I can think of is how much I shouldn't have to be there, what an idiot the other guy is etc etc. It just happens in the blink of an eye without thinking about it. I certainly don't immediately have empathy for the other people stuck or for the people dealing with the cause of it in the first place until I think about it.

Will we become more concerned with wasting less? I hope so, but I also believe it will be because it costs us more not to be-which again is a selfish motivation. Isn't that what led us to start conserving gasoline?

[kurdy]

 

I just think it's silly to think that at some point we can be completely rid of selfishness because it so inextricably linked to self preservation. When it comes down to brass tacks, nearly every man is for himself in the end. That's why they give medals of honor to guys who throw themselves on grenades: it's so damn rare when it happens.

 

 

I agree. I believe people are inherently selfish--we have to be taught empathy. When we are children, all we care about is that we're hungry, or tired, that we want that new toy, or that we'd rather play outside than help with chores, etc. Our parents are the one's who teach us that we need to be respectful and have consideration of other people. Some parents neglect to teach these things, and their children usually grow up to be pretty messed up adults.

 

I believe that until it gets to the point where not being environmentally conscious poses enough of a significant threat to people's way of life, the majority aren't going to care.

[Lee Flier]

 

I just think it's silly to think that at some point we can be completely rid of selfishness because it so inextricably linked to self preservation.

 

 

Of course, and I would never advocate that we should become completely free of selfishness! Like I said... it's a balance, and at some times and/or in some individuals the balance gets out of whack in one direction or the other (I do think being too unselfish is just as unhealthy as being too selfish).

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

Yeah, turning on a tube amp is not the problem. I do my part recycling just about everything I get my hands on. The hybrid car is next but I`m with Phait, my efforts don`t make a dent.

 

 

I start getting curious where Ernest always get the photos of my ex-wifes from for his avatars

[Lee Flier]

 

I agree. I believe people are inherently selfish--we have to be taught empathy. When we are children, all we care about is that we're hungry, or tired, that we want that new toy, or that we'd rather play outside than help with chores, etc.

 

 

Actually this isn't true. Babies are naturally empathetic as well as naturally selfish. They will imitate the behavior of others, and they will become sad when others around them are sad, happy when others are happy. Most other social animals are the same way.

 

What has to be taught is HOW to express their empathy. And that depends to a degree on social customs - "proper" behavior is not always the same from culture to culture. But children do have a natural desire to win others' approval and to please them, though of course they aren't as patient or as good at long term thinking as adults are, and they have to be taught that too.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I start getting curious where Ernest always get the photos of my ex-wifes from for his avatars

 

 

So...that's not Ernest? And he's not your ex-wife?

[slight-return]

Thanks to Jeff and Bluestrat --

 

"could care less" bothers me as well. I think with idiomatic expression, people forget to really understand what they are saying.

 

and Blue brings up another one...though I don't quite bristle as much at that one as I think it's a vocabulary deal (maybe not understanding exactly what the words themselves mean) -- not so much with the vocabulary in "I could care less"

[cooterbrown]

 

Yeah, there really is something soul satisfying about trains, isn't there? I sure hope, for so many reasons, that we get serious about bringing them back.

 

 

I love trains.

When I was a child, I really couldn't get to sleep until the Soo Line made it's nightly 9:00 PM trek on the other side of the lake, we lived on.

[nice keetee]

I'll drive my car less, I guess

[franknputer]

Back OT:

 

[FireWithin]

....touch my amps and die! I've had enough with this green crap but they mess with the tube amps and I go POSTAL!!

[Magpel]

 

Of course, and I would never advocate that we should become completely free of selfishness!

 

 

Maybe self-interest describes the basic state of any living thing. Selfishness then might be defined as a kind of inflamed self-interest that violates the spirit of living well together, or something like that.

 

With malice to none, I don't see how anyone can argue that empathy has to be taught, that it is not inherent. Where did it come from then? The child of reason? I don't think so.

 

Of course we are born with latent empathy. Certain rites and events--say the birth of a child--awake such a rush of nurturing, protective, self-sacrificing instinct, how could anyone argue that selflessness is not inherent also?

 

So what you (I) feel for your (my) child is a very intense selflesssness. I think it is possible to feel a much lower voltage concern for the rest of the goddamn world--same stuff, different concentration.

[Magpel]

Back OT:

 

 

Turn the Hemp dial up!

[sjepstein]

Does it matter if, say, you're getting your electricity from a green source?

[slight-return]

woof! empathy and greed and how they interact -- that's a rich and very cool area of study (one which life, as it happens, has asked me to review)

 

We were discussing this a little bit a few months back (I think it was in a theological thread, and b/c of the charged nature of the topic, some of the underlying concepts can get buried) when we discussed the idea of Pareto optimization (and, specifically the difference between strong and weak pareto optimization)

 

I wish I had more to offer, I can suggest a couple of accessible titles

"The Logic of Life" - Tim Harford

"Predictably Irrational" - Dan Ariely (check spelling on that)

 

sciam has had a couple of decent articles in the past few years on irrationality (that should probably be in quotes for a couple of reasons - but you'll get me rambling) in economics/game theory behavior -- If anyone is interested, I should be able to pull those refs

 

I'm very interested to see how this ties in with addiction (esp with stress factors) from neuroscience perspective...but that might be better left for another convo

 

eh, anyway...

 

I suppose we could always make a push to switchmode amplification if we want to get all power miserly

Back on topic...I suppose

[MrKnobs]

Does it matter if, say, you're getting your electricity from a green source?

 

Sure it does.

 

In fact, it sounds kinda like tube rectifier sag - except a whole lot worse.

 

*insert cartoon here of solar powered rock concert, with guitarist yelling, "What do you mean it IS on?" *

 

 

Terry D.