New Microsoft Store....poor Apple!

[Jon Gnash]

All PCs use pretty much the same hardware these days.

Right. And for the Microsoft-based companies that

[blue2blue]

Top 10 features that Apple stole from Windows Top 10 features Microsoft stole from Mac OS X

Yeah... that's amusing.

 

I was thinking that OS X seemed to be getting easier/more intuitive... turns out the subsequent versions were simply adding Win-like features.

 

I'm less sold on some of the stuff that MS cribbed from Apple, though...

 

Label-less icons in the taskbar... no, no no. Little pictures don't mean anything to me. I've got currently go 92 of them (I just cleaned house; there were a lot more a week ago) on my desktop and it's only because they're labeled and arranged by me in specific ways that I can find anything (and I still sometimes resort to searching my desktop -- one of those icons is a shortcut to a standard Explorer view of the desktop which makes it easier to find my other shortcuts... I have nearly a TB and a very complex organization... I use shortcuts all the time for wormholing from one location to another... it saves enormous time and trouble).

 

Jump lists/expanded taskbar menus seems like a winner, on the other hand.

 

Aero-Peek/Expose -- the writer seems to be blissfully unaware that WindowsKey-D from XP (and a different combination in Win98) would minimize all open windows and then pop them back up. So Win7 may have cribbed some aspect of the updated version from OS X -- but OS X cribbed it from Windows before that. Chalk this one up to an ignorant InfoWorld writer. (No shortage of that.)

 

Fie previews have seemed like a decent idea as long as they didn't come at the cost of slowed system performance. I wasn't sure that was the case in OS X and I'm not sure it's the case with Win 7.

 

Windows gadgets are like Apple widgets? Say it ain't so. A big wet sheesh to MS for not even bothering to come up with a name that disguises the former owner of the 'borrowed' feature.

 

If the Saved Searches don't bog down the system or simply re-run when activated, that could be useful. But if it's like previous saved searches, who cares who stole it from whom? Not me. What ever happened to that SQL-based OS that was going to revolutionize file orgnization issues?

 

RSS feeds in came-with-the-OS browsers? Who cares? Only suckers use Safari or Explorer.

 

The other stuff seemed so minor as to not be worthy of comment.

 

Overall, it looks like MS was halfway sensible about what it cribbed from OS X for Win 7.

 

But after Vista and hearing the claptrap from the Balmer generation at MS, frankly, it's an uphill battle convincing me they can recapture what XP once brought.

[blue2blue]

 

Although I wouldn't buy one, I think the new Camaro looks pretty cool. A LOT of other people seem to agree. I'd guess you are in the minority with your opinion on its appearance.

Being in a minority has never much bothered me, particularly when it comes to consumer identity-styling issues.

 

 

The front end is the problem for me.

 

It's one of those penis-extender designs for the perennially-male-confidence-impaired, seems to me. Like jacked up pickups and $40K Harleys.

 

The rest of the car has a nice, retro-Camaro kind of thing going. But that silly looking grille treatment, please.

 

Put the machismo in the engine... not on the faceplate.

 

[Now, mind you, I trust they did that -- and if the performance is really good, then I would say that should supercede reservations about the looks. My comments above are strictly relating to look and identity-branding issues.]

[Geoff Grace]

Aero-Peek/Expose -- the writer seems to be blissfully unaware that WindowsKey-D from XP (and a different combination in Win98) would minimize all open windows and then pop them back up. So Win7 may have cribbed some aspect of the updated version from OS X -- but OS X cribbed it from Windows before that. Chalk this one up to an ignorant InfoWorld writer. (No shortage of that .)

 

 

Yeah, the writer had the same problem of failing to realize that some of the features (s)he claimed first showed up in later versions of OS X were actually the return of old Mac OS 9 features, implemented before the time period (s)he claims they were first used by Microsoft.

 

But even if the details of the article aren't always valid, the point is well taken that the companies have been copying each other for years.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[blue2blue]

 

Yeah, the writer had the same problem of failing to realize that some of the features (s)he claimed first showed up in later versions of OS X were actually the return of old Mac OS 9 features, implemented before the time period (s)he claims they were first used by Microsoft. But even if the details of the article aren't always valid, the point is well taken that the companies have been copying each other for years. Best, Geoff

 

Right -- and I have no problem with adoption of features pioneered by others -- but I am more than occasionally annoyed by the petty accusations from one side or the other (ahem) that ignore the fact that such transgressions are not just mutual -- but that consumers would be annoyed if their OS stubbornly hid behind a not-invented-here rationale instead of bringing their OS up to the contemporary standards set by their competitor(s). (Let's not count Linux completely out, here, eh?)

 

We see the same thing with DAWs. DAW X introduces feature y... they get to bask in the glow for the length of compoetitors' product cycles -- as they should -- but if DAW Z lets too many good ideas slip by just because they weren't invented in-house, even as other competitors sheepishly (or shamelessly, if that's your interp) adopt them, DAW Z will get left behind. In so many ways.

 

 

If anyone wants to see something that was shamelessly ripped off, they should look at PC-DOS, which was a bald-faced rip of Digital Research's earlier CP/M OS. But DR's Gary Kildall, at times in later years seemed -- publicly -- philosophical. (The Wikipedia entry on his personal life suggests, though, that he was bitter and that an unpublished autobiography accused Gates of outright IP theft and was highly uncomplimentary.) He wasn't as rich as Bill Gates, but he was millionaire many times over when he died.

[Jon Gnash]

File previews ... Saved Searches ...

Saved searches and file previews are security/ privacy vulnerabilities.

Now what do we do?

[Jon Gnash]

The front end is the problem for me.

The horrible unspeakable truth is that the

[Ronan Murphy]

Its interesting, that video sort of showed the difference in the brands. If Apple had done the event it would have been slick and style-ish and some how pushed things forward in at least an aesthetic way. This event seemed like a clunky copy of something else that lacked a cohesive feel and coolness factor.

So not to say that this MS store will not be a good place to buy stuff and a profitable venture, etc, but just the staging and presentation of the event would have probably much hipper if Apple had done it.

FWIW, here at my studio we use both platforms. We run PCs in the office, and Macs for music and video.

[Geoff Grace]

Right -- and I have no problem with adoption of features pioneered by others -- but I am more than occasionally annoyed by the petty accusations from one side or the other (ahem) that ignore the fact that such transgressions are not just mutual -- but that consumers would be annoyed if their OS stubbornly hid behind a not-invented-here rationale instead of bringing their OS up to the contemporary standards set by their competitor(s). (Let's not count Linux completely out, here, eh?) We see the same thing with DAWs. DAW X introduces feature y ... they get to bask in the glow for the length of compoetitors' product cycles -- as they should -- but if DAW Z lets too many good ideas slip by just because they weren't invented in-house, even as other competitors sheepishly (or shamelessly, if that's your interp) adopt them, DAW Z will get left behind. In so many ways.

 

 

Keyboard workstations are another great example.

 

I think that computer users are slowly getting to the point where they treat their platforms like they would any other product. There's still some feverish devotion left in some corners, but it's thankfully beginning to wane.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[blue2blue]

The horrible unspeakable truth is that the

[blue2blue]

 

Its interesting, that video sort of showed the difference in the brands. If Apple had done the event it would have been slick and style-ish and some how pushed things forward in at least an aesthetic way. This event seemed like a clunky copy of something else that lacked a cohesive feel and coolness factor. So not to say that this MS store will not be a good place to buy stuff and a profitable venture, etc, but just the staging and presentation of the event would have probably much hipper if Apple had done it. FWIW, here at my studio we use both platforms. We run PCs in the office, and Macs for music and video.

 

Not a Mac user (at home) and not expecting to be one at any time soon -- but agreed completely on the goofy, unclassy way they launched that.

 

All that can be forgiven, though, if Win 7 proves that MS has got its OS-mojo back up to at the very least XP-era levels.

[Jon Gnash]

appearance

Pontiac Aztek



WTF are these people thinking?

What kind of idiot buys this piece of {censored}?

[Jon Gnash]

In our sucky economy Macs are actually doing very good. Macs are now the fourth best-selling computers in the US, and seventh world-wide.

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Apple-Q4-2009-by-the-numbers-Beats-street-posts-167B-profit/1255985794

[amplayer]

We see the same thing with DAWs. DAW X introduces feature y ... they get to bask in the glow for the length of compoetitors' product cycles -- as they should -- but if DAW Z lets too many good ideas slip by just because they weren't invented in-house, even as other competitors sheepishly (or shamelessly, if that's your interp) adopt them, DAW Z will get left behind. In so many ways.

 

 

As a consumer of DAW software, I would say the point you make here is an excellent example of the consumer being the prime beneficiary of free market competition. The more the DAW manufacturers copy the best features from each other, the better product we all get to use.

This point also goes for the OS. Windows user should be thankful for Apple. Without Apple, who would force Microsoft to add better features? Apple users should be thankful for Microsoft for the same reason.

[blue2blue]

Pontiac Aztek WTF are these people thinking? What kind of idiot buys this piece of {censored}?

Thanks for giving me some perspective, with regard to my unkind comments on the appearance of the new Camaro's front end. Compared to this, the new Camaro looks like the best of Ferrari and Lamborghini combined.

[blue2blue]

 

As a consumer of DAW software, I would say the point you make here is an excellent example of the consumer being the prime beneficiary of free market competition. The more the DAW manufacturers copy the best features from each other, the better product we all get to use. This point also goes for the OS. Windows user should be thankful for Apple. Without Apple, who would force Microsoft to add better features? Apple users should be thankful for Microsoft for the same reason.

 

By and large, I agree.

 

But when the cribbing is clumsily done and the cloned feature doesn't bring something new or worthwhile -- or worse, is still decidedly inferior to its source of 'inspiration,' it's pretty pathetic. And I'd say that the MS of recent years has a pretty regrettable track record of getting things mucked up. When one considers the performance of Vista (with its clumsy Mac me-tooisms that bring virtually nothing of merit or value in terms of improved workflow or human efficiency and come at the cost of performance more sluggish that OS X on the same machine, even as XP wolud fly past both of them), it becomes fairly clear that when poorly done, it's a net loss.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

If Apple had done the event it would have been slick and style-ish .... ...the staging and presentation of the event would have probably much hipper if Apple had done it.

 

 

As everyone knows, Apple has built their company on the coolness and hipster factor....not because of an superior platform.

[Jon Gnash]

There are occasional questions on this list about USB Audio 2.0 support in Windows. We (the Windows sound team) are curious to hear specific reasons- scenarios, business, features, etc.- that would be enabled if USB Audio 2.0 support was included in Windows. Are any of you willing to share this? The more specific you can be, the better. If you do not want to share with the entire list then feel free to send a message to me directly. Frank Yerrace Microsoft http://www.freelists.org/post/wdmaudiodev/Why-would-you-want-USB-Audio-20-in-Windows

Keep in mind that Mr. Yerrace is just being a dick. The

[Geoff Grace]

As everyone knows, Apple has built their company on the coolness and hipster factor....not because of an superior platform.

 

It's probably best when stating your opinion to avoid phrases like, "As everyone knows..."

 

They're both superior platforms for their customer bases.

 

For example, most Mac users I know bought into the platform because of Performer, Vision, Pro Tools, or Logic -- not because of any perceived coolness or hipster factor.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[John Sayers]

Blue - you missed my point - I was refering to the hardware - dual SSHD, Intel's fastest Quadcore processor - DDR3 memory and powerful HD resolution graphics and audio, all for under $3,000.

BTW - did you know Nokia are sueing Apple over the iphone - apparently Nokia believe Apple have broken a series of Nokia patents in the iphone.

[Anderton]

FWIW, here at my studio we use both platforms. We run PCs in the office, and Macs for music and video.

 

 

And I run Macs in the office, and PCs for music and video. I think I live in Bizarro-land (although I do use an Intel Mac for PT and Logic).

[Phil O'Keefe]

Mac vs PC? Meh... they both stole from Xerox.

http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline.html

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'm non-denominational in the Mac vs PC warz. I use both. My main PTHD computer is a PC (mainly because, in the event of a hardware failure, I can fix it myself and be back up in running in days vs a couple of weeks if I have to send it back to Apple). For the Internet, I (and my wife) both use Macs. I am subjected to all sorts of web nasties as a site admin / forum moderator here, and using a Mac is generally a bit safer in that regard IMO. I also occasionally use my MacBook for running PTLE.

 

They're not that dissimilar in terms of hardware these days, and in terms of the operating systems, I've been using both platforms since the 1980's, so I'm pretty comfortable on either one.

 

They're just tools. When I feel a hammer is the appropriate tool, I reach for one, and ignore the ratchet and screwdrivers.

[blue2blue]

Blue - you missed my point - I was refering to the hardware - dual SSHD, Intel's fastest Quadcore processor - DDR3 memory and powerful HD resolution graphics and audio, all for under $3,000. BTW - did you know Nokia are sueing Apple over the iphone - apparently Nokia believe Apple have broken a series of Nokia patents in the iphone.

1) Ah.

 

2) Yes.

 

[amplayer]

By and large, I agree. But when the cribbing is clumsily done and the cloned feature doesn't bring something new or worthwhile -- or worse, is still decidedly inferior to its source of 'inspiration,' it's pretty pathetic. And I'd say that the MS of recent years has a pretty regrettable track record of getting things mucked up. When one considers the performance of Vista (with its clumsy Mac me-tooisms that bring virtually nothing of merit or value in terms of improved workflow or human efficiency and come at the cost of performance more sluggish that OS X on the same machine, even as XP wolud fly past both of them), it becomes fairly clear that when poorly done, it's a net loss .

 

 

As a user of Windows XP, Vista 32-bit and Vista 64-bit, and Mac OS X, I agree with what you have said here.

However, when configured properly, I find decent performance out of all of these except Vista 64-bit, which I simply can't make work for DAW software. Note, however, that getting Vista to work well amounts to shutting off all the nagware (especially UAC). My Mac software seems snappy enough without a whole lot of tweaking. Then again, making XP work well is pretty painless.

 

I sure hope Windows 7 lives up to its expectations. Although I really like Vista from an Office user perspective, it does have real issues for creative professionals. Not the least of these is the reliance on and introduction of the first DirectX (DirectX 10) that isn't compatible with and won't run on earlier operating systems (i.e., XP). Now, developers of video games and other graphics rich apps have the choice of releasing on DirectX 10 and leaving out all the XP users, or using DirectX 9, which is clearly inferior. Eeeeek!