About to order a Bugera V22.

[guitarman3001]

 

Nice. So it's a halfway decent amp if you replace all the tubes, put an EQ in front to get rid of the fizz, and put a fan pointing at the power section. The added bonus to that is that you can stand in front of your amp and get that rock star video/hair blowing effect. Does it have room to mount a small fire extinguisher in the cabinet? In 15 years of owning probably a dozen different tube amps, I've never had one go snap, crackle, pop, or squeal unless something was wrong. They don't "just do that". I've also never had a control panel get hot to the touch, but it's possible that's just bad design. I'd contact Bugera about a warranty replacement or repair, unless you feel it's up to you to replace the tubes.

 

 

hrmm....I haven't replaced a single tube in mine and it works great. I also haven't needed an eq to get rid of any fizz. I use a fan on ALL of my amps and many amp manufacturers actually put fans in their amps. Fire extinguisher? Your hyperbole is pretty lame.

 

If you've never had a tube amp's control panel get hot to the touch, I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are lying about something. You're either lying about owning tube amps and you've never actually owned one or you're lying about them never getting warm. Tube amps, by their very nature, get warm.

 

I'm no expert but to me it sounds like he might have a bad tube. Maybe the one that's glowing unusually brigher than the others....who knows... It happens. The other day there were two different threads almost at the same time about brand new egnater rebel 30s, a 1000.00 amp, dying right out of the box. Turns out the cause was bad tubes.

 

And if you look around, there are reports of ALL kinds and brands of amps having issues no matter how expensive they are. Sounds to me like you just have some stick up your ass about bugera and behringer.

 

Fact is, the V22 is an amazing amp. It sucks that he got one with a problem out of the box but that doesn't change that fact. {censored} happens. It's a brand new first run amp. I bought a $30K car and had to take it in for 3 or 4 different recalls and other issues within 6 months of buying it.

 

Oh, and if all someone needs to get a better sound is an eq, it's still a hell of a lot better than a 1300.00 mesa express which would take a special mass held by the pope to get a usable sound out of it. Not to mention, how many people buy expensive amps and the first things they do before even turning them on is replace the tubes and the speaker, or perhaps open up the chassis and start clipping wires (fender DRRI bright cap mod??) ? Yeah...I'm gonna go ahead and say you've never actually owned a tube amp. Jesus...this is the kind of post I have to wake up to?

 

 

btw, I'm no bugera/behringer fanboi by any means. I've owned some of their products that I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. However, I call it like I see it. So far what I've seen from the V22 is good. Maybe if mine catches fire or craps out in the middle of a gig and people start reporting major problems with them left and right I'll change my opinion but so far, almost everything I've seen and experienced points to it being a great amp despite some first run or production issues.

[Vintage55]

smokes too many Special J's...

[Special J]

smokes too many Special J's...

Define "too many".



Yes gman, I've owned plenty of tube amps, some great ones and some clunkers. None of them were $2k amps as you implied earlier in this thread. No, none of the control panels got hot on me, even with hours of use, except for the Blues Deville's stupid chrome panel, if you were playing outdoors in the sun.
Yes, I dislike Behringer quite a bit. It's funny, because I've agreed with you (gman) in several threads and have even been your sole supporter in one. We disagree on this one thing and you gotta go all spastic about it. I didn't mean to go and ruin your morning. Perhaps you're taking it too seriously. You're throwing out references to other amps that make no sense. I have no problem with budget gear in general, I have no problem with you in general. I do think that fanboism can sometimes get in the way of common sense though. I've got my favorites and would defend them as well.

To the OP, I don't mean to {censored} on your thread or your purchasing decision. I hope you get your issues resolved painlessly and enjoy your amp.

[guitarman3001]

Define "too many". Yes gman, I've owned plenty of tube amps, some great ones and some clunkers. None of them were $2k amps as you implied earlier in this thread. No, none of the control panels got hot on me, even with hours of use, except for the Blues Deville's stupid chrome panel, if you were playing outdoors in the sun. Yes, I dislike Behringer quite a bit. It's funny, because I've agreed with you (gman) in several threads and have even been your sole supporter in one. We disagree on this one thing and you gotta go all spastic about it. I didn't mean to go and ruin your morning. Perhaps you're taking it too seriously. You're throwing out references to other amps that make no sense. I have no problem with budget gear in general, I have no problem with you in general. I do think that fanboism can sometimes get in the way of common sense though. I've got my favorites and would defend them as well. To the OP, I don't mean to {censored} on your thread or your purchasing decision. I hope you get your issues resolved painlessly and enjoy your amp.

 

I'm not a fanboi. As a matter of fact, I've got a behringer reverb pedal sitting here that I never use and have never sold it because in good conscience I can't bring myself to try to pawn it off on someone.

 

My point was simply that you can't go off judging and trashing an amp just because it might have a problem out of the box or require different tubes or an eq to sound better. Like I said, brand new amps, even expensive one, are always having issues out of the box and people constantly spend thousands on amps only to get them and immediately dismantle them and swap out pretty much everything but the chassis in order to make it sound better. And yes, comparisons to other amps are relevant. You make it sound like an inexpensive amp sucks because it might sound better with new tubes or an eq but how many people spend almost $1K on something like a DRRI and immediately swap the speaker, cut the bright cap, and stick an eq in front of it? Same with a million other amps.

 

So even if the amp did require new tubes and an eq, which it doesn't, but for the sake of argument....If I can spend 349.00 and get an amp that requires new tubes and an eq to sound good or spend 1000.00 on an amp that's also gonna require new tubes and an eq to sound good, and the 349.00 will actually sound better and be more versatile, which one makes more sense?

[Grantus]

continues to do this at random after the tubes have had more than enough time to have warmed up. as far as I can tell it never stops doing it all together.

 

 

I had a similar problem with my V5 and I sent it back after trying to replace the tubes. The second one has no squealing problems.

[guitarman3001]

ok...now that I've woken up and eaten something I feel better.

 

man...you know you're getting old when you wake up with a hangover and you didn't even drink the night before.

[twotimingpete]

no need to be a hater... I actually really like the amp, I just think it clearly has a bad tube or something.

 

in any case, it's an obnoxious problem, because the box it came in is too big to fit into my little ass car, so I don't know how I'll get it to UPS. maybe they'll make UPS come pick it up (I know GFS does that). I doubt it but you never know.

[V-Type]

Pull each tube one at a time and then make sure they are seated back in the socket properly first.

A loose tube can often be the culprit of these problems as well.

[twotimingpete]

Pull each tube one at a time and then make sure they are seated back in the socket properly first. A loose tube can often be the culprit of these problems as well.

 

 

yea already did that.. didn't change anything.

[Orange Jackson]

At any rate, it does sound like a bad tube, which is nothing really. Swap out the whole amp to get a new set of tubes, or just swap out the tubes. Tubes last a long long time, so just get a good set and you'll be set.

http://www.tubedepot.com/

These guys will set you up too, very helpful,

http://www.thevintagesound.com/store/vacuum-tubes-jj-tesla-tubes-c-2_12.html

 

 

Another thought would be to call, M123 was it? -and have them refund you some cash as you need to buy new tubes for the amp. They did this for me on a crate V30.

 

On another note, and I am no expert ether, but I've read on a few occasions that putting a fan on your tube amp is the wrong thing to do. Tube amps are designed to run hot, that is what makes them sound great, HOT ass tubes. So by putting a fan on the tubes you are undermining the design of the tube amp. They get hot, that is what they do, it's normal tube amp stuff.

[Vintage55]

I would recommend checking the bias on the tubes, as well. You can get an inexpensive multi-meter from Harbor Freight, if you don't have one. Best range on the V22 is somewhere between -15vdc and -17vdc, when measured using Bugera's bias jack. That could be why you feel the amp is really hot as well as why you're getting those weird sounds, if the tubes are biased too hot.

[twotimingpete]

I've never set or checked the bias on an amp -- I'm not really familiar with how this goes. that's why I'm a bit hesitant to buy new tubes, since traditional wisdom is that if you replace the tubes the amp's bias needs to be set again.

[guitarman3001]

my suggestion is to exchange it. if you're not sure it's the tubes there's no point in spending money on new tubes if that may not fix the problem. not to mention, my point of view on these things is that it should work fine out of the box and not require you to play the role of amp tech on a brand new amp.

[steve_man]

I'm not a fanboi.

 

:lol: Seriously? :lol:

 

Dude, you and jhall should be getting paychecks from Behringer/Bugera...

 

Funny thing is that the description of the amp in this thread sounds about like most of what I've heard about Bugeras since they came out. I know...you and jhall have good examples with no issues. However, when they came out, this place was littered with threads about the overheating issues, cheap components, etc. I hope the OP gets his amp sorted out, but honestly...is anyone surprised about these problems?

[Vintage55]

Runnin' fine for 8 months now...

[paulskirocks]

ok...now that I've woken up and eaten something I feel better. man...you know you're getting old when you wake up with a hangover and you didn't even drink the night before.

That's just because you passed out two nights ago and have been sleeping for two days!

I am following this thread with interest, as I am preparing to buy a new amp...

[photon9]

That's just because you passed out two nights ago and have been sleeping for two days! I am following this thread with interest, as I am preparing to buy a new amp...

I've had a Bugera V22 for a couple months now. I've had no problems with it and like it a lot.

[guitarman3001]

Found out tonight that it handles impedance mismatches very well. Long story but bottom line is I am a complete idiot and a retard. I put my 1x12 extension cab on top of it, set the impedance to 4 ohms, then proceeded to play the entire 4 hour gig without having plugged in the ext. cabinet. I only realized my idiocy after the gig as I was packing up and went to unplug the extension cab and realized I had never plugged it in. What makes me even more stupid is that throughout the night I felt like something was off and I wasn't getting as much bottom end as I should have been with the additional cab and I also wasn't hearing myself as well as I should have been. It never dawned on me that it could have been because I didn't plug my ext cabinet in.

 

 

Anyway, it handled the impedance mismatch without catching fire or dying.

[jhall]

:lol: Seriously? :lol: Dude, you and jhall should be getting paychecks from Behringer/Bugera... Funny thing is that the description of the amp in this thread sounds about like most of what I've heard about Bugeras since they came out. I know...you and jhall have good examples with no issues. However, when they came out, this place was littered with threads about the overheating issues, cheap components, etc. I hope the OP gets his amp sorted out, but honestly...is anyone surprised about these problems?

Well.. I happen to be in agreement that an amp should work without issue right out of the box.
That being said, My V-22 had a microphonic preamp tube right out of the box. I found it and put in an old GE 12AX7 I had. This cleared that up. From that point on whenever I plug into that amp, there's a huge grin that spreads across my face because I'm greeted by amazing tone.
Now It sucks the state of tube quality these days and I think the builders should hold the tube makers feet to the fire about the junk they're putting out.
I also just bought a Rebel-30 head (now we're leaving "cheap" territory and entering "moderate" territory). That thing sputtered and died in about 7 minutes!!! Guess what?? Bad power tube took out the Fuse thet protects the OT. Well after putting some older yet fragile tubes I had around the amp worked albeit it had a slight howl and a little rattling. But I knew it was a bad power tube. Not only that but I noticed the tubes on the 6V6 side had a dead tube!!! I ordered all new Power and Pre (less one Pre that I'd bought a Groove tubes gold series 12AX7R for my Bugera V-55 head which I didn't need in that amp as I put in NOS Jan in V-1).
After putting in those tubes and setting the bias voltage to the -40MV stated on the board using the stupid easy test points there the amp sounded PERFECT. Like it was taken out of the swimming pool and parked in front of the best mic available pumped through a high end mixer.
As for the V-22 the test point is even easier to get to because you don't even need to remove it from the cabinet AND the bias adjustment pot actually has a knob!! You don't even need a screwdriver!!
Yes it sucks that amps ship with bad tbes and I allways price an amp in my head to cost the store price + the cost of replacing the tubes.

As for "working or collecting a paycheck from Bugera", I wish!!
Amps are a very personal and independent choice. The reason I push people to consider the Bugera amps is because they do sound phenominal at a very low cost. IMHO it is one of the better amps to come out in quite some time.
That is coincedence at ahat cost. It is obviously NOT a direct rip-off of ANY amp I'm aware of.
Now I have no idea how well these amps will hold up over time. There are some design characteristics that don't instill confidence but time will tell.
So Steveman and OP dude, My advice would be to see if you can at least try some different tubes in that amp. Or send it back for a replacement.
You may be writing off an amp that could be a fav of yours due to a "problem" that is common to all tube amps and is the primary reason that people started to go Solid State all those years ago.
PEACE AND ROCK ON

[Citizen Cain]

 

Anyway, it handled the impedance mismatch without catching fire or dying.

 

 

I've used mine with a 16 ohm ext cab plugged in along with the 8 ohm internal speaker. That gives you a 5.3 ohm load, set the switch to 4 ohms and it works just fine. I think this is even documented in the owner's manual.

[Vintage55]

The Bugera amps, especially the V series, are some of the better amps to hit the market in quite some time. Because they are inexpensive, the level of materials used is not what you might find in a more expensive amp...BUT...the question is, do you really need some uber beefy chassis and birch ply cabinet? Do you really need handwired point-to-point contruction? Do they really justify what they cost, in terms of increased performance, better sound out of the amp? Some would argue yes, and that opinion is valid, at least to them.

Reliablity is certainly important, and aside from some tube issues (and Bugera is not alone there), the only thing that I have heard about on these amps is a channel switching issue, which appears to have been determined to be a heat issue...and some owners have found a simple fix for that. Something that Bugera could easily incorporate into their production. I'm sure they're not alone on something like this either, with a brand new product line.

The thing that really impresses me about the V55HD, 412 cab and V22, is that based on sound quality, clean and gain channel, the fact that they take pedals so, so well, and that the controls really allow for excellent tweaking of your sound...as good as anything I've ever seen, these products could easily sell for way more.

If I had paid $800 for my V55HD, rather than $349, I'd be overjoyed with the sound I'm getting out of it. Had the 412 cab cost $600 instead of $249, I'd still think it sounded outstanding at that price. And if the V22 was selling for $600 rather than $349, it would still be a hell of a combo amp for the price.

[faberbz]

The Bugera amps, especially the V series, are some of the better amps to hit the market in quite some time. Because they are inexpensive, the level of materials used is not what you might find in a more expensive amp...BUT...the question is, do you really need some uber beefy chassis and birch ply cabinet? Do you really need handwired point-to-point contruction? Do they really justify what they cost, in terms of increased performance, better sound out of the amp? Some would argue yes, and that opinion is valid, at least to them.

 

 

Good point.

 

If you don't have roadies hauling your gear on and off the truck just so you can dime your gear for 3 hours five nights a week...... Nothing wrong with non-hand-wired stuff if it works as designed and is reliable. How many of you have a 100% hand-wired computer?

 

On the other hand, reliability counts for a lot. No one wants to buy something wondering if it will work to dinner time on their NAD, or worry about how it will survive the trip in the back of the Outback to their friend's basement for the monthly jam. Sturdy cabinets/chassis may seem excessive, but they speak to a brand's philosophy of design and construction.

 

Bugera/Behringer has done a lot to raise its QC without raising its price point. As consumers and players, we should applaud this.

 

Look at the car industry........QC, fit-n-finish, reliability, and performance are light years ahead of what they were two decades ago. A nice, inexpensive Hyundai will be good for well over 100K miles and has a quality of construction that rivals cars much more expensive. Yet, if you want hand-built Bentleys, Ferraris, Bugattis, etc., those are there, too.

 

Yet, I would be pretty sure that the car aficionados buying those premium cars would never say anything disparaging about lower-cost cars that raise the standard at those price points. Quite the contrary.

 

Yet, with amps.....

[jhall]

hrmm....I haven't replaced a single tube in mine and it works great. I also haven't needed an eq to get rid of any fizz. I use a fan on ALL of my amps and many amp manufacturers actually put fans in their amps. Fire extinguisher? Your hyperbole is pretty lame. If you've never had a tube amp's control panel get hot to the touch, I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are lying about something. You're either lying about owning tube amps and you've never actually owned one or you're lying about them never getting warm. Tube amps, by their very nature, get warm. I'm no expert but to me it sounds like he might have a bad tube. Maybe the one that's glowing unusually brigher than the others....who knows... It happens. The other day there were two different threads almost at the same time about brand new egnater rebel 30s, a 1000.00 amp, dying right out of the box. Turns out the cause was bad tubes. And if you look around, there are reports of ALL kinds and brands of amps having issues no matter how expensive they are. Sounds to me like you just have some stick up your ass about bugera and behringer. Fact is, the V22 is an amazing amp. It sucks that he got one with a problem out of the box but that doesn't change that fact. {censored} happens. It's a brand new first run amp. I bought a $30K car and had to take it in for 3 or 4 different recalls and other issues within 6 months of buying it. Oh, and if all someone needs to get a better sound is an eq, it's still a hell of a lot better than a 1300.00 mesa express which would take a special mass held by the pope to get a usable sound out of it. Not to mention, how many people buy expensive amps and the first things they do before even turning them on is replace the tubes and the speaker, or perhaps open up the chassis and start clipping wires (fender DRRI bright cap mod??) ? Yeah...I'm gonna go ahead and say you've never actually owned a tube amp. Jesus...this is the kind of post I have to wake up to? btw, I'm no bugera/behringer fanboi by any means. I've owned some of their products that I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. However, I call it like I see it. So far what I've seen from the V22 is good. Maybe if mine catches fire or craps out in the middle of a gig and people start reporting major problems with them left and right I'll change my opinion but so far, almost everything I've seen and experienced points to it being a great amp despite some first run or production issues.

 

 

You Don't NEED an EQ in the loop of this amp at all. I have used one there and was very happy with the results. Also The "Fizz" seems to be present in many "highgain" amps in this amp you have a bajillion ways to "build" the gain stages. More so than in any other amp I've seen no matter the cost.

But this amp like MOST tube amps seems to have a sweet spot on the volume knobs. I find it to be at about 7 (meaning the Master volume and post gain volume knobs on 7- gain to taste). At this point the bitch is very very loud (hey!!! just like a toob amp!!!!). This causes the speaker to move more effectively reducing "fizz". Want the Clean side to kick all kinds of ass?? Turn it up to that sweet spot (again past 5 on the clean volume knob and keep the master at 7 (again idiotically loud for the bedroom and neighbor pissing offing loud... Hey just like a toob amp!!!) But that's where the tone is.

When played quietly it suffers the same as most amps ( I say most amps because to me even ss and modelling stuff sounds better at least moderately loud, just the nature of the way my ears hear a flapping piece of paper and rubberoid foam).

That V-22 and my V-55 head send chills up my spine when played at these higher levels through my 3/4 stack config. And the V-22 is kick ass bone stock through the stock speaker.

I'm really sorry to gush like a wet pantied schoolgirl but this amp IS the real deal...... Unless it bursts into flames of course:lol:

[guitarman3001]

I think a big part of why some people have something against these amps is because they have a negative preconception against bugera/behringer, as a few people have admitted outright, and no matter what they may claim, that prejudice will have a strong psychological influence on their perception of the amp when they try it out.

A lot of people dislike behringer because they have in the past copied designs from other manufacturers.

That's ok. I can relate to that. I can't stand Marshall because they completely ripped off Fender's bassman design and copied it pretty much circuit for circuit. I also can't stand Soldano because they copied Marshalls. Damn design thieves is what they are!!!!!




Fact is, tone-wise and price-wise the bugeras are great amps. Long term reliability remains to be seen but I'm hoping for the best.

[twotimingpete]

okay, I have sound clip of it!

 

not what you think, though. I recorded the amp without any instrument plugged in. with most amps this wouldn't be much of a sound clip, but with this v22, it's a symphony of noises!

 

so can anyone tell me what these sound like? the only time I interfere is when I hit the channel button and boost button off and on at one point.

 

http://www.gulchcomic.com/images/v22noises.mp3

 

the more common whining sound is at the start, and there's a bit of the "rumble" it does sometimes towards the end of the clip. again, this whole clip had no instrument plugged in ever.

 

it does this with no instrument plugged in, it also does it when playing, sometimes playing makes it do it more, particularly high notes. certain notes it just doesn't like and it'll make noises at me. keep in mind this is NOT feedback, it's something else entirely.