Members rasputin1963 Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 I'm guessing many, if not most of us here have found themselves in this situation, or something akin to it: I met a very rich, genteel man recently of about age 55. Multi-millionaire living in a stunning, many-roomed palace in the mountains. Pool, cars, lawns, tennis courts, the works. His wife, to help him pass his retirement, just gave him a CLAVINOVA. This gentleman, knowing of my musical interest and ability, took me aside yesterday and played me a little riff he'd cooked up... a simplistic piano ditty drowning in symphonic strings. The song has about three chords... no melody at all.... just simple major triads being arpeggiated. It's not even a "song" at all, just two or three repeated arpeggiations in the Key of C major. Clicking on a bossa-nova rhythm preset he says, "Now here's where it gets exciting..." Same arpeggiation, played to the synthy rhythm. Then he turned to me and said, "I know with your help, you and I can turn this into a movie score which we can sell to Hollywood. 'Cause I hear stuff like this behind the dialogue in movies all the time... it's where the emotion comes from. Maybe over the summer you and I can work on this piece together and really flesh it out into something." Well, gang, I was horrified. The guy is NOT joking. At ALL. Not drunk, not stoned, not retarded. He MEANS This. Somehow, he has been deluded into thinking that this miniscule little fragment... this shred of nothing........... is a worthwhile piece of music. What do you possibly SAY to a person like this? In other departments of his life he is a smart, savvy businessman. Somehow he's gotten the delusion that he's a musician. I don't want to crush him... I want him to go on playing his little C major fragments for his own pleasure. I sure don't want to collude with him in ANY capacity, though. How do you "break it" to people that their music is not even in the running... nowhere NEAR it... It's not even meaty enough to parlay into some kind of "vanity " project (if I were a real weasel I could possibly flatter him and take him for a ride.... like some character out of a Moli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 Be nice, but be honest. You're not helping him by furthering his mistaken sense of accomplishment here. "What I'd like you to do is step back a little and analyze what you've written, and then take a closer listen to what's being done in movie scoring. Most serious movie scores have themes that are on par with classic symphonic compositions. Most utilize sub-themes that are created with each character or each environment in mind. What you've written here might be fine for a start, but the over simplicity and dated nature of the composition and arrangement aren't on par with what the professionals do in Hollywood. Film scoring is an entire area of study in music composition, and what you might want to do before trying to submit stuff is to take a class or two and see what makes good score successful." There you go. Copy/paste, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 but I'm not). His wife is in on this delusion, and also asks me what I can do for her husband? As Craig has said recently, the technology out there has allowed laymen to create things that "almost sound like facsimiles of music". And this is the case here. Only this guy has legitimately fooled himself... So? Guys? Whaddya say? I was in the same exact situation around 10 years ago. A very wealthy business woman in my neighborhood who owns a "mansion" (the house takes up the entire block, 4 car garage, she owns around 7 cars, 1 for each day of the week, has a pool on the second floor of her house, etc...) approaches me and says, "I know you`re a very good musician and writer. Would you be interested in writing some tunes with me?" [EDIT: I was working at the local church at the time and she actually came there and asked for me.] We arrange a meeting... I go to her "house" and her bodyguard who had to be a former inmate basically frisks me with his eyes before letting me in the gate. After waiting about 15 minutes, she finally descends down the stairs, orders her bodyguard to make her a cup of coffee and asks me if I would like some... "Of course" I respond. She shows me her ideas and plays a couple of commercial country hits at the time, this was 1999-2000. She tells me, "With your help, I know we can write songs like this." The best part: SHE WANTED TO SING THEM. She couldn`t sing a line. She couldn`t write either. Basically she wanted me to do all the work: WRITE THE SONGS. I told her I needed to get back to her. About a week later, I tell her that I can co-write the songs with her but I`ll be charging her $100/hour + writing credits. That was the last I heard from her. You cannot make this stuff up. Charge this guy accordingly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 Yeah, I had a young, energetic entrepenuer once advise me - after hearing me play improvised stuff on the piano - "You made that up? Just now? Man - you should make up stuff like maybe one a day like that and record 'em. Duplicate 'em onto CDs and sell 'em! Say, you get like maybe $500 from each song so five days a week that's $2,500 - 10 grand a month maybe more once you get a bunch of 'em out there! They got these burners and software make it easy, man!" When I didn't respond with any enthusiasm, I could see it in his eyes "guy's got no entrepenuer in him AT all" nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 It's been my method to go ahead and record the people. When they hear it back and ask why it sounds so bad, I said "I can only capture what's being given to me. I cannot change the performance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 Ras - tell the guy it's not what you do in the movie music business, it's who you know. The greatest musical GENIUS (who could you be thinking of here;)) can't get anywhere in Hollywood without the right connections - it's a protected racket. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 Ernest, I would have swam in her pool, maybe pissed in it too, drank her coffee, Woulda requested a bottle of 'Dom P' to get my creative juices flowing, If she was even the slightest bit attractive I would maybe have 'busted a move' 'no homo' as the rappers say;) I mean, if she was trying to play you to do all the work, you might as well have played HER, like the 'cheap-assed fiddle' that she was...and went for the Gusto.. Cuz it was obvious that you sensed she wasn't even the slightest bit interested in giving any type of Monetary compensation to you for your creative efforts. She just wanted to 'Ride The Tiger' without paying the fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted June 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 What is vaguely amusing about this incident is what I see when I sort of "look out through his eyes" at the music business... He really sees music professionals as sort of diaphanous, weightless fairies who walk on clouds, feeling first THIS emotion, now THAT one, feeling-feeling-feeling things and capturing them like butterflies... sprinkling them with fairy-dust. Shazam-- CD's and movie scores materialize! He sees the music business as a nirvana of dreams and fantasy, fleeting emotion and whim. What is kinda heartbreaking is that this guy has genuinely had some really harsh blows dealt to him and his family recently.... and it is these hard knocks, he tells me, which have induced him to "write this piece". Now-- picture me telling him his piece is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 Ras, per your sig, (and I am a devotee' of Sarte), I have walked my Golden Retriever EVERY day at 3 pm for the last 5 years in all types of weather...The only times I haven't was when he was boarded and I was on Vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 Maybe you should work with him a little bit and get him to agree to give you 1/2 credit as a cowriter.... There surely is all kinds of totally crap music in movie soundtracks, and this guy sounds like he could probably sell it... On second thought, get a 'DBA' alias and have the credits (and checks) made out to the alias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Instrospection Posted June 8, 2010 Members Share Posted June 8, 2010 I told her I needed to get back to her. About a week later, I tell her that I can co-write the songs with her but I`ll be charging her $100/hour + writing credits. That was the last I heard from her. You cannot make this stuff up. Charge this guy accordingly! Yup. Charge a ridiculous amount, too--most of the time, it scares people off. Most people will realize that they're out of their depth when they have to pay that. Although this guy's a millionaire, so possibly, he has alot of time due to the retirement and alot of spare money to indulge in something he's always wanted to do. So he may be willing to pay nearly any amount. Here's what you do if he still accepts--if there's only three chords, no problem. Just keep on adding other instruments to it--strings, percussion, make it really big and grandiose. Some really great songs have been built on two or three chord progressions for the whole song, using tension and building up over a longer period of time to make up for the lack of progression in the chord changes. He may actually have more ideas--and better ideas--in his head. Lord knows i've presented some really weird ideas to people that sound better in my head. "No, no, really.....i've got all these other things to add to it!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Figure out how much someone would have to pay you to treat his nonsense seriously, and then ask him for it. Unless you don't need work, in which case, stop returning his phone calls or just come up with some excuse unrelated to how bad his music is. A) You can't talk him out of it most likely since he will never hear what you hear, and he will just hate you, or B) if you actually manage to discourage him, you're jeopardizing a gig for someone who needs the money worse than you do, and C) how many successful film scores have you made; maybe he's on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Ernest, I would have swam in her pool, maybe pissed in it too, drank her coffee, Woulda requested a bottle of 'Dom P' to get my creative juices flowing, If she was even the slightest bit attractive I would maybe have 'busted a move' 'no homo' as the rappers say;) I mean, if she was trying to play you to do all the work, you might as well have played HER, like the 'cheap-assed fiddle' that she was...and went for the Gusto.. Cuz it was obvious that you sensed she wasn't even the slightest bit interested in giving any type of Monetary compensation to you for your creative efforts. She just wanted to 'Ride The Tiger' without paying the fare. two things: 1. I was already married. 2. Not my type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Yup. Charge a ridiculous amount, too--most of the time, it scares people off. Most people will realize that they're out of their depth when they have to pay that. Although this guy's a millionaire, so possibly, he has alot of time due to the retirement and alot of spare money to indulge in something he's always wanted to do. So he may be willing to pay nearly any amount. Here's what you do if he still accepts--if there's only three chords, no problem. Just keep on adding other instruments to it--strings, percussion, make it really big and grandiose. Some really great songs have been built on two or three chord progressions for the whole song, using tension and building up over a longer period of time to make up for the lack of progression in the chord changes. He may actually have more ideas--and better ideas--in his head. Lord knows i've presented some really weird ideas to people that sound better in my head. "No, no, really.....i've got all these other things to add to it!". The point of charging so much is if they say yes, you are making some money for putting up with the crap. Yes, you could just add instruments here and there, I have some meditation CDs that do just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wide Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 It can't be much worse than Axel F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjt Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Ras, honestly, why pop his bubble? Why even risk making an enemy? Tell him you are too busy with school and you just don't have the time. The world will give him feedback about his songwriting talent if he persists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Taylor Davis Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 but I'm not). His wife is in on this delusion, and also asks me what I can do for her husband? As Craig has said recently, the technology out there has allowed laymen to create things that "almost sound like facsimiles of music". And this is the case here. Only this guy has legitimately fooled himself... So? Guys? Whaddya say? you could help him easy! Bring over a real keyboardist who smokes. one of my budds wanted me to teach him guitar so I smoked him a while and gave him some stuff to learn, taught him some stuff, had a blast and the guy actually got kinda good. just have fun! and allow him to learn a fourth chord. bring your stuff over and jam! show him some songs, teach him how to read music, listen to some stuff, hang out, have a few dranks and find out what he likes. encourage him but be gently honest by showing him the ropes. live a little and allow him to live a little. can't hurt you. you might turn out to be friends. some of my best friends are wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Keep your boots clean...pardner. It's no lie to say to him that what he proposes is a huge endeavor, and that you're pretty tied up, already. (Maybe you're even pretty when you're not tied up. LOL!) If you give it a whirl and start to feel like you're being played, walk away, don't play back. You don't need the bad karma, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 I always try to encourage people to make music but also discourage them from ruining that noble pastime by hanging lottery-style dreams on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Basically she wanted me to do all the work: WRITE THE SONGS. I know what Ernest is talking about. Been there All I can tell you, Ras - RRRRUUUNNNN, RUN! It will be much worse if you give a person a slightest encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MadCapLaughs Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 I always try to encourage people to make music but also discourage them from ruining that noble pastime by hanging lottery-style dreams on it. Post of the Day. I'd put it in my sig, if I cared to have one. BTW ... What does this mean: "It's not even a "song" at all, just two or three repeated arpeggiations in the Key of C major." There are plenty of songs that can be described as two or three arpeggios in C major. Probably thousands. Lots of good ones, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 you must listen to this - Pete Cook and Dudley Moore sketch"The Piano Teacher" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 But that is only the beginning. This reminds me of the first time that I played with my PAiA 16 event sequencer !!! Was I making commercial music back then? NO! But everyone starts somewhere. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 Ras, per your sig, (and I am a devotee' of Sarte), I have walked my Golden Retriever EVERY day at 3 pm for the last 5 years in all types of weather...The only times I haven't was when he was boarded and I was on Vacation. I assumed the quote meant AM:) What does that say about me? nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goobers Posted June 9, 2010 Members Share Posted June 9, 2010 What do you possibly SAY to a person like this? I guess whatever they've been saying to you, and just put it in your own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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