Members burton4snow Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 I just ordered a couple of WGS Veteran 30s to replace a Hellatone 30 and a Vintage 30. Just not getting the sound I wanted hoped these might help. Now I am worried about this cone cry which a couple of the reviews said these speakers have. What is this? Is it totally annoying? I will be running the cabinets like a mini stack- Two 1X12 cabinets stacked and daisey chained off each other. Should I be concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prages Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 Just out of curiosity, why would you replace a Celestion Vintage 30 and a relabeled and pre-broken-in Celestion Vintage 30 with a cheaper clone of a Celestion Vintage 30? I don't think you're going to get a significant difference in tone with that kind of swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deadbeat Son Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 Agreed; replacing a speaker with a replica of that speaker is not going to be much of a change in tone at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kulardenu Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 I use penicillin for all my cone cry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcooper830 Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 In the OPs defense, Warehouse Veteran 30s are supposed to be a more balanced version of the Celestion Vintage 30. I have both, but I can't really asses the differences accurately cause they're in different types of cabs. They both sound great to me. Anyways...... I think cone cry is when you hit a certain note that over-resonates with your speaker and you get this weird harsh sounding note from it. It happens in this video for just a second at 2:57. [YOUTUBE]gPUaBXLie60[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burton4snow Posted September 1, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 Just out of curiosity, why would you replace a Celestion Vintage 30 and a relabeled and pre-broken-in Celestion Vintage 30 with a cheaper clone of a Celestion Vintage 30?I don't think you're going to get a significant difference in tone with that kind of swap. I am finding that harshness in the upper mids in the Vintage 30 this speaker claims to fix that and I can get two for the price of one Vintage 30. It might have been a {censored} up, but hey life is full of them and if nobody tries different things how boring is that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fuelish Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 I use penicillin for all my cone cry... LOL .... mine doesn't "cry," ...but it "weeps" a lot..... and I'm allergic to penicillin, dagnabbit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 Cone cry is not something used in the industry. Its likely some authors description of what he hears. Things like resonant frequency, frequency Responce, SPL level are the terms used by pros. Speakers are only going to sound as good as the cab, the room, and what they're being fed. Its a huge factor in making a setup sound good. I unlike what others think, My opinion of Celestion 30s are thay are pretty suckey speakers. I had my first set in a cab back in the 70s along with a set of Altecs in the same 4X12 Ampeg V2 Cab, and the Altecs made the Celestions sound like garbage in comparison. They have lower SPL in comparison to many other speakers, and the frequency responce has a fairly predictable midrange hump. If you got a good head, you can push them and get a good tone, just not a wide variety of tones. You can dial in maybe one good setting and have to stick with it. Other speakers can have all kinds of variety of tones and respond to whatever the amps EQ is dialed in for. You can get speakers with higher SPL levels and have doubble the DB level of an amp. I'm quite biased because I do have amps with better speakers, and I also have a marshal cab with Celestions so I have direct comparisons I can get using different heads. I also repaired amps for a living over the past 40 years so getting to see under the hood was a daily routine. There wasnt a whole lot of choices back in the 60s and 70s when I first got into playing. cab type made up the differences the speakers couldnt . Celestions were the British version or the American Jenson that was installed in butloads of amps for mediochere tone and cost. Even then like now though there are many superior speakers that can do fantastic things for ones sound. Its difficult if not impossible to make suggestions for improvement not being able to hear and test the responce on forums like this. It may be the air volume of the cab isnt right, settings of the amp, amp type, boxes used, guitar used, guitar setup, or playing style. Unless you can hear those things for real, its 100% guesswork based on descriptions. A really good amp tech can test an amp, measure things like resonant frequency of the cab and speaker, hear what its lacking, get input on what the guitarst is seeking, and make informed suggestions on what will improve ones tone based on some scientific fact to aid decisions. As I said speakers have different frequency responces, and SPL levels. Use those specifications to get a good match and you're in business. Otherwise, you can spend alot of time and cash spending money on swapping speakers till you just happen to stumble across something that works better than what you may have started with. This is where Hype over specific speaker brands is a complete fail. One size does not fit all and gaining the knowlege how to match speaks to cabs and heads, guitars etc is something not easily learned, especially if you dont have an electronics background to begin with but it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imbuedblue Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 Cone cry is when the voice coil drives the cone so hard that the cone generates frequencies in addition to those from the original guitar and amp signal. So basically, you hear other notes along with the note you are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burton4snow Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Cone cry is when the voice coil drives the cone so hard that the cone generates frequencies in addition to those from the original guitar and amp signal. So basically, you hear other notes along with the note you are playing. Do you only hear it when your pushing the speaker really hard. If thats the case I can deal I don't play very loud. If it does it all the time these are going back. Has anyone had good luck with these speakers- WGS Veteran 30s. I should have reasearched more, Dagnabit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imbuedblue Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Yeah, it usually only happens on higher wattage amps at loud volumes. And it is very common in all of the V30-style speakers you mentioned because of the thin cones used. In my experience, it happens more often running a 1x12 vs a 2x12 cabinet. Some people like the sound. It all depends on whether the frequencies generated are related to the fundamental note or not. It isn't something that happens on all notes. It normally only occurs on a few notes high up the fretboard on the E and B strings, and your left hand technique can effect it. The frequencies generated are often referred to as "ghost notes" and sound metallic and almost steel drumish. Kind of like turning on an Eventide Harmonizer for only certain notes. Sometimes the notes relate, sometimes they don't which can sound really ugly and out of tune. Anyway, I suggest playing at volume above the 12th fret on the B and E strings and listening. If you don't like what you hear, then I'd be concerned. Don't worry prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burton4snow Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Thanks for all the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Cone cry is not something used in the industry. Its likely some authors description of what he hears. Things like resonant frequency, frequency Responce, SPL level are the terms used by pros. Speakers are only going to sound as good as the cab, the room, and what they're being fed. Its a huge factor in making a setup sound good. I unlike what others think, My opinion of Celestion 30s are thay are pretty suckey speakers. I had my first set in a cab back in the 70s along with a set of Altecs in the same 4X12 Ampeg V2 Cab, and the Altecs made the Celestions sound like garbage in comparison. They have lower SPL in comparison to many other speakers, and the frequency responce has a fairly predictable midrange hump. If you got a good head, you can push them and get a good tone, just not a wide variety of tones. You can dial in maybe one good setting and have to stick with it. Other speakers can have all kinds of variety of tones and respond to whatever the amps EQ is dialed in for. You can get speakers with higher SPL levels and have doubble the DB level of an amp. I'm quite biased because I do have amps with better speakers, and I also have a marshal cab with Celestions so I have direct comparisons I can get using different heads. I also repaired amps for a living over the past 40 years so getting to see under the hood was a daily routine. There wasnt a whole lot of choices back in the 60s and 70s when I first got into playing. cab type made up the differences the speakers couldnt . Celestions were the British version or the American Jenson that was installed in butloads of amps for mediochere tone and cost. Even then like now though there are many superior speakers that can do fantastic things for ones sound. Its difficult if not impossible to make suggestions for improvement not being able to hear and test the responce on forums like this. It may be the air volume of the cab isnt right, settings of the amp, amp type, boxes used, guitar used, guitar setup, or playing style. Unless you can hear those things for real, its 100% guesswork based on descriptions. A really good amp tech can test an amp, measure things like resonant frequency of the cab and speaker, hear what its lacking, get input on what the guitarst is seeking, and make informed suggestions on what will improve ones tone based on some scientific fact to aid decisions. As I said speakers have different frequency responces, and SPL levels. Use those specifications to get a good match and you're in business. Otherwise, you can spend alot of time and cash spending money on swapping speakers till you just happen to stumble across something that works better than what you may have started with. This is where Hype over specific speaker brands is a complete fail. One size does not fit all and gaining the knowlege how to match speaks to cabs and heads, guitars etc is something not easily learned, especially if you dont have an electronics background to begin with but it can be done. Pfffff! Says you. Depends on the style you're after. I have a cab ported with Altecs and THEY DON'T hold a candle to V30 open back combo for high gain. Flubby bass almost hi-fi cold sound. Maybe you can use it for your music but as an additional speaker it is ok for WHAT THE V30 can do it is not and I am being gentle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SUV Steve Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 Impending cone cry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bsman Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 I thought cone cry was you did when you spent beaucoup bux on a new speaker and it didn't improve your tone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted September 3, 2010 Members Share Posted September 3, 2010 I am finding that harshness in the upper mids in the Vintage 30 this speaker claims to fix that and I can get two for the price of one Vintage 30. It might have been a {censored} up, but hey life is full of them and if nobody tries different things how boring is that! I have heard the Veteran 30's are less harsh, without the upper mid spike, which would be huge for me, because I hate...HATE...Vintage 30's...oh, the ear fatigue. If the Veteran's don't do it, you may want to consider mixing something with the Vintage/Veteran 30, it seems almost every boutique amp company that uses Vintage 30's mixes them with a smoother speaker...either a Greenback or a Lead 80/Classic lead, both of which I think sound so much smoother and more natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted September 4, 2010 Members Share Posted September 4, 2010 Has anyone had good luck with these speakers- WGS Veteran 30s. I should have reasearched more, Dagnabit! To me they sounded like a shriller, less full sounding v30, sorta like an unbroken in v30 with more highs and less lows. Heres the thing about the vet30s, supposedly they are a copy with less "harsh mids" or less of a mid hump. V30s are that mid hump, thats all they are is mids on top of mids. The tone of the ones i had reminded me more of a rocket 50 than a v30, but not nearly as quiet and lifeless as the rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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