Most expensive Chinese-made guitar on the planet?

[GAS Man]

Those are hand made(supposedly). It's a little different than being made on an assembly line by the cheapest labor available.

And comments like that I would only expect to be posted by someone who's actually visited the production line of Gibson/Nashville and the production line in the Qingdao factory to see how much variation there is in the production methods rather than formulate a visual that Qingdao is an open shoot into which wood and metal is dropped and CNCs spit out MIC guitars on the other end. Have you seen how a $999 MAP Epiphone is built?











I also think that it's interesting that I'm someone who's bought 17 variations of Gibson Les Paul, still own 15 of them, and no one here asks, "Hey GAS Man, how does the Epi Slash compare?". The preference here is to avoid first hand experience and cling to uninformed biased arm chair/keyboard speculations, with at least one of them here being woefully inexperienced. Got shoes older than you boy.

[diceman1000]

First Act also makes high-end custom guitars. It's like saying Fender sucks because they make Affinity Squiers.

 

 

thanks J:thu: that was my whole point:facepalm:

[BoneNut]

Dude, First Act sells guitars in freakin Target stores. Don't believe me go check it out for yourself.

 

 

I may be mistaken but isn't there another company that sells guitars at Target and Walmart? Gibson maybe?

[JTEES4]

Chinese made guitars should be cheaper simply because the labor is cheaper...period. There is no reason a Chinese guitar can't be or is not as good as a guitar made anywhere else (if we're talking non handmade..meaning cnc production) guitars.

[diceman1000]

I may be mistaken but isn't there another company that sells guitars at Target and Walmart? Gibson maybe?

and Fender bud, and Fender...

[ThePigster]

And comments like that I would only expect to be posted by someone who's actually visited the production line of Gibson/Nashville and the production line in the Qingdao factory to see how much variation there is in the production methods rather than formulate a visual that Qingdao is an open shoot into which wood and metal is dropped and CNCs spit out MIC guitars on the other end. Have you seen how a $999 MAP Epiphone is built?

 

 

Actually, if you can find me a link to a video tour of the factory, I'd love to see it. I can't seem to find it on youtube.

[Elias Graves]

HC should put this on pay per view.

 

EG

[GAS Man]

Actually, if you can find me a link to a video tour of the factory, I'd love to see it. I can't seem to find it on youtube.

 

 

Instead of Qindao, would you settle for Corona?

 

[YOUTUBE]2BfkEXvtNTM[/YOUTUBE]

[ThePigster]

Well, that's a good one and I love old Cliff Claven, but I really wanted to see the Quindao factory in action. I'll search google a little more. Oh yeah, i you haven't seen it yet, you should check out the Alvarez Yuri factory tour videos on youtube, they are truly amazing guitars.


You know, I've noticed a lot of people on these boards make big assumptions based on small comments. All I said was that First Act starter guitars suck, and Epiphones are made on assembly lines, and now I'm a name brand elitist snob band wagoner with no idea how a First Act plays and that believes Chinese guitars are materials thrown into a shute and CNCed into a guitar. And apparently the 12 years of musical experience and 13 instruments I own from 10 manufacturers and 6 different countries doesn't make me qualified enough to give an opinion on a Chinese guitar (I own 5 Chinese instruments, by the way, 2 of which are epiphone).

No offense intended guys, I'm just here to talk about guitars because I love 'em so much, but just relax a little and don't jump to conclusions.

[GAS Man]

No offense intended guys, I'm just here to talk about guitars because I love 'em so much, but just relax a little and don't jump to conclusions.

None intended on my part either. I was mostly just trying to say that we know that most of them all have some CNC and some hand work. It's hard to say without walking the floor how much difference really comes in from one mfr to the next. But I do seem to recall watching one of these vids where the mfr pretty much did the necks by hand. I thought that was pretty amazing. Talk about your skilled labor. But then again, I really don't know how much hand labor might go on in the shaping of a neck at Qindao either. I'm at 118 from 40 or so different manufacturers. Still more questions than answers in my head.

[lincoln40]

I like General Zso's chicken and pork fried rice but I dont want no Chinese made guitar. No thanks.

[GAS Man]

I like General Zso's chicken and pork fried rice but I dont want no Chinese made guitar. No thanks.

Seriously little puppy, have you started looking at the labels of the goods in your house. Everything from your TV to your Toaster. You can run but you can't hide.

[ThePigster]

http://www.epiphone.com/FactoryTour/qdtour.html

 

This is all I found of the Epiphone factory. Not a video though.

[DaveGrima]

 

 

Wow that guy Mike from the Fender Custom Shop said body wood makes a bigger impact on sound than the pickups! What a noob! Doesnt he read HCEG?

[GAS Man]

Wow that guy Mike from the Fender Custom Shop said body wood makes a bigger impact on sound than the pickups! What a noob! Doesnt he read HCEG?

That made me LOL. Yeah, what has that recent nonsense been here about anyway? Of course it makes a diff.

Anybody who's ever tried to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear by slapping new pickups in it and failing each time knows the wood makes a diff.

Anybody who's ever bought two of the same guitar with one being ash the other alder or one being rosewood fb and the other being ebony know even that imparts an effect on the tone.

I think that's always been the one valid reason to have some concern about the imported guitars. All though mahogany is most likely mahogany at any factory, you've got to expect that the best pieces, cured with the best methods, aren't necessarily coming out of Qingdao. The only question would be how much would the luck of the draw level the playing field.

Kiln dried wood is the enemy. It's moisture content is not necessarily stable even in its point of origin. And then when it's shipped to a dryer or damper climate, things, like neck relief, fret leveling, binding, etc, will be affected.

[madrigal77]

The western manufacturers have gone to great lengths to cut costs. Outsourcing your production to an authoritarian regime where the factory workers are paid ridiculously low wages is not a good indicator that quality is #1. I have seen enough examples of "what can we get away with" when it comes to Chinese production. It's never been an issue of whether Chinese are capable of producing, it's the pretty obvious case of what we have been sold from that country. I have owned way too many {censored}ed up Chinese products. I put blame largely in the hands of the Western importers who spec it out and demand a certain price point. Then again, melamine milk and toxic cadmium metal products are clearly Chinese issues, IMO. That's not a good sign. That $800+ Chinese Epi is costing Gibson about $100 a pop. With the markup they are applying, that is a ripoff. So as long as the quality is acceptable to you, then that's all that matters? 87% percent of them that don't fall into their "middle class" aren't living a good life. Would you like to live under that kind of government? Would you give up what you have to go live there? I'd be pretty unhappy living around the clock in a factory compound just so you can pay $10 for a toaster from Walmart that cost you $15 twenty years ago when it was made elsewhere. They have us by the financial balls and you're adding to the fire. Don't misunderstand me - I buy imports, but tend to buy from countries that are fair competitors in the capitalist market and don't throw people in jail for year for posting a joke on Twitter. Facepalm me all you want, but if you support that {censored}, you have no respect for your fellow man. It's just about getting your {censored} cheap. Freedom vs authoritarian control. http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2010/11/19/a-joke-on-twitter-a-year-in-labor-camp/ http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/07/1913197/chinas-nobel-laureate-still-jailed.html http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3683878.ece http://www.tibetsun.com/archive/2009/05/26/chinese-police-shoot-six-women-during-dam-protest/ http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-01/world/china.foxconn.inside.factory_1_foxconn-suicides-china-labor-bulletin?_s=PM:WORLD http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34859033/ns/health-kids_and_parenting

 

All I can say is that I lived in China for a few years, and it's not nearly as bad as the western press likes to make out. Yes, the poor there are much worse off than here, but it's the same in all emerging countries. It's the same in India as well. They've risen so fast, that it's going to take decades for all the wealth to trickle down to the lower classes.

 

As far as the rights thing goes, while I don't agree with everything they do, you simply can't apply western values to a totally different culture. You also need to take into account what it takes to govern such a large population, many of which are very uneducated and frankly don't think in what most of us here in the west would call a "logical" way. Just think of the whole redneck population is the US, but only more uneducated and there being a billion of them. You can see why a firmer hand would be needed to keep things under control.

 

Frankly I actually feel safer in Beijing than I do here in Canada. The bigger cities are actually a very nice place to live.

[BoneNut]

All I can say is that I lived in China for a few years, and it's not nearly as bad as the western press likes to make out. Yes, the poor there are much worse off than here, but it's the same in all emerging countries. It's the same in India as well. They've risen so fast, that it's going to take decades for all the wealth to trickle down to the lower classes. As far as the rights thing goes, while I don't agree with everything they do, you simply can't apply western values to a totally different culture. You also need to take into account what it takes to govern such a large population, many of which are very uneducated and frankly don't think in what most of us here in the west would call a "logical" way. Just think of the whole redneck population is the US, but only more uneducated and there being a billion of them. You can see why a firmer hand would be needed to keep things under control. Frankly I actually feel safer in Beijing than I do here in Canada. The bigger cities are actually a very nice place to live.

 

 

I'd love to go to China. I've traveled to many places, lived in different countries and have always enjoyed learning and absorbing some of their culture. To understand and appreciate another country and its customs, it must be judged on its own merits and values, so as to form a valid opinion... It also implies traveling further than your own backyard!

 

When the Chinese guitar subject pops up here every other week, many of the same reasons are given by detractors for not buying Chinese products; Child labor, shoddy workmanship and standards, slave like working conditions and oppressive governments are usually mentioned arguments.

 

What many don't realize is that these same conditions were at what time common in the USA as well, as it was on its way to "development". It's not like the USA suddenly sprang to life in Mayberry sometime during the 1950's

 

China, like many countries that the uneducated bad mouth here constantly, are now on their own and unique ways to development. Although at times the paths they have chosen may seem completely different to our own, more often than not they are identical. If world events of the last 40 years are any indication, it's very likely the USA will be passing on the world leadership torch to one of them in the next 60 to 70 years.

 

Even now, it's completely, 100% and utterly impossible to survive in the USA without using foreign products, especially those made in China. Without foreign products, you couldn't drive... hell or even walk to your nearest Walmart. Even if you managed to make it, there isn't much there you could buy. Maybe you're against buying at Wallyworld too... doesn't matter, it's the same all over.

 

Besides the Chinese guitars we are so familiar with and that many claim to despise, most here fail to recognize that their beloved MIA guitars are made with foreign parts as well. Besides, should we even call them Chinese guitars? After all, they're guitars from American companies, built to American specifications, manufactured to a price point dictated by American corporations... that just happen to be made somewhere else.

 

Another issue that's always brought up, is that by purchasing MIA guitars or other products, we're helping the national economy. Truth is, it's impossible to even be sure of that. Foreign investors control so much debt and stocks in this country that you can't be sure where your dollar will end up.

 

So if you want to buy an MIA guitar, by all means do so based on your own preferences but don't make your purchasing decision based on the things usually mentioned here on HCEG. A lot of what is said on these unending MIC vs. MIA, is mostly just hearsay and Internet half truths.

[TheBlueStrat]

All I can say is that I lived in China for a few years, and it's not nearly as bad as the western press likes to make out. Yes, the poor there are much worse off than here, but it's the same in all emerging countries. It's the same in India as well. They've risen so fast, that it's going to take decades for all the wealth to trickle down to the lower classes. As far as the rights thing goes, while I don't agree with everything they do, you simply can't apply western values to a totally different culture. You also need to take into account what it takes to govern such a large population, many of which are very uneducated and frankly don't think in what most of us here in the west would call a "logical" way. Just think of the whole redneck population is the US, but only more uneducated and there being a billion of them. You can see why a firmer hand would be needed to keep things under control. Frankly I actually feel safer in Beijing than I do here in Canada. The bigger cities are actually a very nice place to live.

 

 

Really? I did not feel safe in Beijing at all when I spent two months there this summer. And I'm ethnically Taiwanese and have been to China a few times with family, so I was familiar somewhat with the culture and everything. There's the nice part of Beijing, but I walked two blocks down and it literally turned into crapshacks. Outside the city and the tourists areas, the conditions are still really bad IMO. Everytime I went into the mall, there were no people there except for tourists and rich people because the divide between rich and poor is still so huge. So after re-reading your post, I guess I'm basically agreeing with you about the big cities being nice lol. I feel much safer in Toronto though, or would in Taiwan for that matter...but I digress.

[JTEES4]

All I can say is that I lived in China for a few years, and it's not nearly as bad as the western press likes to make out. Yes, the poor there are much worse off than here, but it's the same in all emerging countries. It's the same in India as well. They've risen so fast, that it's going to take decades for all the wealth to trickle down to the lower classes.

As far as the rights thing goes, while I don't agree with everything they do, you simply can't apply western values to a totally different culture. You also need to take into account what it takes to govern such a large population, many of which are very uneducated and frankly don't think in what most of us here in the west would call a "logical" way. Just think of the whole redneck population is the US, but only more uneducated and there being a billion of them. You can see why a firmer hand would be needed to keep things under control.

Frankly I actually feel safer in Beijing than I do here in Canada. The bigger cities are actually a very nice place to live.

Hey bub....don't come waltzing into a perfectly good discussion thread and muddle it all up with FACTS:wave:
What are you trying to do? You know we don't do FACTS 'round here.
By the way, I agree with you. People love to compare China as if it's the USA. You can't compare different economies and different cultures directly to each other as if they are the same.

[IBDBB]

a few pics here:
http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=868

A few fakes/copies come from Quingdao as well, don't know if there is more than one factory there though.. It wouldn't surprise me if they made some after hours/lunchbreak special guitars, it is very common with many Chinese factories..

[kIrkHamster]

The Epi Slash guitars are great guitars, play them before you knock them, they kick the {censored} out of the GIbson LP studios if you ask me.