Why did Fender stop using Lace Sensors?

[recordingtrack1]

 

originally posted by Ryan Trevisol: Because Vintage Noiseless sound better? Oh, and they look retarded. Strats need polepieces.

 

 

I don't know. When I see David Gilmour play his strat (with EMG's), it doesn't seem to need polepieces.

 

RT1:thu:

[Kat73]

"Oh, and they look retarded. Strats need polepieces."

 

I think it's a cool look without the poles. Sounds most important, so if they sound good AND look good (IMHO), they're good with me.

[SatchMan14]

anybody ever tried lace sensors in a tele??? i was thinkin about tryin it...

[Kat73]

Fender had the Tele Plus model for a while. Does anyone own one?

 

Check out the link below for a cool looking one on ebay. It makes me wish I was in the market for one (although it looks pretty beat up).

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1989-FENDER-TELECASTER-TELE-PLUS-ELECTRIC-GUITAR-LACE_W0QQitemZ230110905207QQcategoryZ38083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Wyatt]

 

Actually, the Clapton Strat does still have the VNs in it.

 

 

Yeah, but Clapton doesn't use them anymore, he uses a real vintage-style single coil again.

[SatchMan14]

has anybody put lace pickups in an standard fender tele??? think it would be worth the price?

[Highway_61]

 

anybody ever tried lace sensors in a tele??? i was thinkin about tryin it...

 

There's a Squier Tele w/ sensors on eBay right now (Not mine).

[Faber]

 

I believe all the discussion about the deal between Lace and Fender ending was the primary driving factor. But they kept using them in the EC sigs and others until the Vintage Noiseless and traditional signles slowly replaced them. But the Lace's also had a bad rep with players, who mostly found the Gold and Silver them flat and lifeless compared to the PU's they were supposed to emulate. By the time Fender developed the Vintage Noiseless, there was a whole revolution in trying to make a humless single that sounded true to vintage pieces (which Lace did not). Kinman, DiMarzio, Fender and others really came up with PU's that got far closer to traditional Fender tone, it was a major step forward from the old Lace's. The VN's where a new item when they introduced with the American Deluxe series, and players/consumers were really blown away by the VN's more traditional tone. And then EC went for them over the Lace, and then eventually dumped the whole noiseless idea altogether. I'm not too sure what spurred the VN to SCN change, but hose (which were developed with Bill Lawerence) came several years later. Lace in turn kept developing and has come up with far more complex and deeper sounding PU's that their old '90's models as well. Actually, these were just starting to improve as Fender was dropping them, poor timing. Also, it seems Kinman and DiMarzio's have received far more kudos over their efforts than either Fender or Lace.

 

 

I think there's something to this: That the LS didn't live up to player's expectations, which were traditional strat tones. Now I think LSs got their own cool thing going, but I can see why someone who's looking for "vintage" tone might not be satisfied with them. Perhaps LSs were collateral damage of the vintage craze?

[csm]

 

For the moment I guess only one famous guitarist still use Lace pickups, and that is Keith Urban. I heard him at a country show and he had a sound to die for in his Clapton Strat.

 

 

And Pete Townshend's been using old-style, Lace-loaded Clapton Strats (augmented with Fishman fake-acoustic technology) on stage for the last twenty-or-so years.

[guitarNed]

Just a reminder: in addition to the VN there is the SCN.

[BootRoots]

has anybody put lace pickups in an standard fender tele???

 

sorta.

 

Heres my 89 Am Std with Evans Noiseless (same idea as Lace but better IMO)

 

http://www.synapticsystems.com/studios/evans/about.htm

[bdegrande]

 

I believe all the discussion about the deal between Lace and Fender ending was the primary driving factor. But they kept using them in the EC sigs and others until the Vintage Noiseless and traditional signles slowly replaced them. But the Lace's also had a bad rep with players, who mostly found the Gold and Silver them flat and lifeless compared to the PU's they were supposed to emulate. By the time Fender developed the Vintage Noiseless, there was a whole revolution in trying to make a humless single that sounded true to vintage pieces (which Lace did not). Kinman, DiMarzio, Fender and others really came up with PU's that got far closer to traditional Fender tone, it was a major step forward from the old Lace's. The VN's where a new item when they introduced with the American Deluxe series, and players/consumers were really blown away by the VN's more traditional tone. And then EC went for them over the Lace, and then eventually dumped the whole noiseless idea altogether. I'm not too sure what spurred the VN to SCN change, but hose (which were developed with Bill Lawerence) came several years later. Lace in turn kept developing and has come up with far more complex and deeper sounding PU's that their old '90's models as well. Actually, these were just starting to improve as Fender was dropping them, poor timing. Also, it seems Kinman and DiMarzio's have received far more kudos over their efforts than either Fender or Lace.

 

 

Avout the only part of this I agree with is that the Lace Sensors don't sound nearly as much like a traditional Strat pickup as Kinmans and other noiseless pickups (including the Lace Holy Grails). I love their sound, but it is not a traditional Strat sound.

 

I can't buy the VNs being an improvement, though. The overwhelming majority of the posts I have read here and elsewhere have disliked them, which I think is what led directly to the development of the SCNs.

[Wyatt]

 

Avout the only part of this I agree with is that the Lace Sensors don't sound nearly as much like a traditional Strat pickup as Kinmans and other noiseless pickups (including the Lace Holy Grails). I love their sound, but it is not a traditional Strat sound. I can't buy the VNs being an improvement, though. The overwhelming majority of the posts I have read here and elsewhere have disliked them, which I think is what led directly to the development of the SCNs.

 

 

The VN's were a big hit when they were introduced. I have limited exposure to them, and am a poor athuority on the tone of any of these pickups being discussed; I'm a hum-lovin' kind of guy myself. So, all I can spend of is the trends I saw in guitar buying. But the trend, at the time the VN's were introduced, was pretty pro-VN, at least for a while. That time period, 7 or 8 years ago, was a small, short hum-free single Renaissance where people were really adopting the VN's, the DiMArzio VV's, and the Kinman's were already popular, at least as far as the vocal internet purchasers. That said, I have not heard anyone say they prefer the VN's over the SCN's or anything.

[Wyatt]

 

Just a reminder: in addition to the VN there is the SCN.

 

 

The SCN's came much later, they weren't adopted until just a few years ago, the VN's pre-dated them by 5 years and the discontinuing of the Laces started even before that.

[theviper]

For the moment I guess only one famous guitarist still use Lace pickups, and that is Keith Urban. I heard him at a country show and he had a sound to die for in his Clapton Strat.

 

Well, now that the Smashing Pumpkins have recorded a new album, I'm sure Billy Corgan will pull out his old strats for the first time in a long time.....

 

And while I'm on that topic - someone said they sound shit?

 

Yeah what the fuck ever - Siamese Dream and Mellon Colllie and the Infinite Sadness were a direct product of the 'shit' referred to here.

[R. A. Lane]

My 92 Strat Custom I found about 10 years ago had the lace sensors and I didn't like them. That is until I got it set up right. Trick is getting the string to pickup clearance to spec (.017".) Now I love it. Sustain and tone suits my style just right.

[ashasha]

 

The SCN's came much later, they weren't adopted until just a few years ago, the VN's pre-dated them by 5 years and the discontinuing of the Laces started even before that.

 

 

Yes, they supposedly realized that they weren't quite there, had some stuff in place and brought Bill Lawrence in to make it work. I like the SCN's that I've played and I like Bill's stuff for the most part.

 

I have heard through the grapevine that Lace can be kind of flaky to deal with at times though. I have no idea how much of that is recent history (I believe that the father passed away?) or if it had anything to do with the move. But I do know that anytime a company can use their own product (such as the VN's or SCN's) that it's better for the bottom line. And that's where most decisions are based. If Lace came to the table to renegotiate and couldn't beat the price per unit for Fender to just produce their own than why bother to renew the contract?

[jsullalex]

 

I'd really like at least one strat model with Lace's. They sure don't sound vintage, but they have a great sound that I would want in at least one of my strats.

 

 

I would definitely recommend this. I just put a set of the red, silver, blues in my MIM strat and I couldn't be happier. I can agree with people say they don't sound like the VN but at the same time I like the sound of them.

 

And as for the look, I dont miss the pole pieces. It is kind of a classy look.

[Dr_Kuh]

Because the contracts ran out or because Fender wanted to make their own money instead of making a license product?

 

 

[kayd_mon]

Well, now that the Smashing Pumpkins have recorded a new album, I'm sure Billy Corgan will pull out his old strats for the first time in a long time..... And while I'm on that topic - someone said they sound shit? Yeah what the fuck ever - Siamese Dream and Mellon Colllie and the Infinite Sadness were a direct product of the 'shit' referred to here.

 

Perfect example of differing tastes - I don't like the guitar tone in nearly all of the Smashing Pumpkins recordings. He generally goes for very muddy, sludgy tone, which just isn't for me. That's ok, because I'm not their guitarist

 

I have a dual red Lace Sensor in an old Strat Copy, and I don't really like it. I've never heard the Gold ones, but I hear they're good.

 

I've demoed Fender's VN and SCN pickups, and I haven't liked them. I'd be interested in some other options, but so far, I've been happy with my Strats - hum and all.

[koti123]

 

It was partially a marketing decision, brought about by the new (at the time) trend toward everything "vintage" . Lace's did/do not fall into that category sonically as well as visually. I, for one, loved them -- they were very good at capturing the sound of the guitar, IMO.

 

You are right.I had two deluxe strats with the Lace pickups and they sounded just fine.The craze for vintage pickups was up and running strong and fender did away with the sensors.IMHO because of this. it was a marketing decision.

[citizens_X]

Because Vintage Noiseless sound better? Oh, and they look retarded. Strats need polepieces.

 

Maybe, but they do look damn sexy in my Mustang.

[guitarmandp]

I will say this about the Lace Sensors humbuckers. The Lace Sensors humbuckers are the pickups I have ever heard on a stratocaster, that sounds like a stratocaster when you split the coil.

[FoonkySteve]

I got some unidentified Lace's coils in my Used Young Chan Fenix Strat, It sounds and plays a lot better than my u.s. standard strat. This annoys me.

[csm]

Said this before but I may as well chuck it in again -- I had gold Lace Sensors in an old Strat Plus I used to have and they weren't bad at all -- just very much at the 'glassy' end of the Strat tonal spectrum. I much prefer both the Kinman AVn Blues set I had in my now-sold IM 50s Classic Strat, and the Hot Noiseless (both much richer and juicier than the Vintage Noiseless) which arrived as stock in my Custom Shop Jeff Beck.