Members blue2blue Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Nothing to be ashamed of. The Onyx preamps are actually quite good!Don't ever get caught saying that at Gearslutz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 So, because you haven't been very clear .... all pre amps sound the same, everyone is just imagining a difference. Correct? at the price level talked about in this post - yes probably very much the same. the folks that think they are hearing something else are likely hearing something else other than the pre itself. its like saying you can hear a difference between XLR jacks. maybe, or maybe you are hearing a difference not in the jack but something the jack is connected to. mic pres' are a myth but obviously many here do not think so. have fun, and why not hook the pre up with a $126 power cord then because it will make a similar difference as the different gain circuits converting the voltage from mic level to line level. if a pre does something other than that it is defective and should be repaired. there are however other parts of the electronic circuit that can and do shape tone or color sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PermaNoobie Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 That I played the part as it was written I gotta essspress myself, I jus' gotta ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 11, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2011 at the price level talked about in this post - yes probably very much the same. the folks that think they are hearing something else are likely hearing something else other than the pre itself.its like saying you can hear a difference between XLR jacks. maybe, or maybe you are hearing a difference not in the jack but something the jack is connected to.mic pres' are a myth but obviously many here do not think so. have fun, and why not hook the pre up with a $126 power cord then because it will make a similar difference as the different gain circuits converting the voltage from mic level to line level I have zero interest in comparing pres. There is a difference. But I don't care. Once it is at a certain level of quality and can do unerversal duty, I don't care. I'm prefectly happy with an API board. Or a Neve. Or an SSL for input. Whatever. Move the mic and inch and you make way more difference that the spitting hairs of any of the top pres. I can hear a differnce between my Uries, my FMRs and my API. Adn for the most part... I dont' care. They all work. They don't get in the way. {censored} I've got music to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bookumdano2 Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Here is an audio myth. All you do is decide which side of the myth you believe is the truth for you. (oh, and in keeping the topic to wires and metal too, hey, nice examples of working the sm58)-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J10w3FuCwfQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Recording a weak song with the best of technology will make it sound ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 at the price level talked about in this post - yes probably very much the same. the folks that think they are hearing something else are likely hearing something else other than the pre itself.its like saying you can hear a difference between XLR jacks. maybe, or maybe you are hearing a difference not in the jack but something the jack is connected to.mic pres' are a myth but obviously many here do not think so. have fun, and why not hook the pre up with a $126 power cord then because it will make a similar difference as the different gain circuits converting the voltage from mic level to line level. if a pre does something other than that it is defective and should be repaired.there are however other parts of the electronic circuit that can and do shape tone or color sound.OK... I was trying to let this pass... I mean, I'm not a golden ear/golden gear guy by a million miles. But it strikes me as more than a bit of overreach to suggest there's no more difference between different pres (even in the 'affordable' sub-$1k level) than XLR jacks. Not only does my experience (based on some semi-rigorous AB comparisons) tell me that the different designs of mic pres in my modest gear collection most certainly can sound quite different from one another, but that impression is backed up by poking around in the circuit design and implementations. Are the differences huge? What's huge? They're noticeable, without question, particularly depending on what is put in and at what level. mic pres' are a myth but obviously many here do not think so. I think this one belongs in roomjello's thread on philosophy and phenomenology. While I will stipulate that all experience may be an illusion -- if one grants some leeway to the notion that the physical world exists -- then I'm gonna have to stick up for the physical reality of my mic preamps. They are as real as my SM57's. Nail head scratches and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 OK... I was trying to let this pass... I mean, I'm not a golden ear/golden gear guy by a million miles. But it strikes me as more than a bit of overreach to suggest there's no more difference between different pres (even in the 'affordable' sub-$1k level) than XLR jacks. Not only does my experience (based on some semi-rigorous AB comparisons) tell me that the different designs of mic pres in my modest gear collection most certainly can sound quite different from one another, but that impression is backed up by poking around in the circuit design and implementations. Are the differences huge? What's huge? They're noticeable, without question, particularly depending on what is put in and at what level.I think this one belongs in roomjello's thread on philosophy and phenomenology. While I will stipulate that all experience may be an illusion -- if one grants some leeway to the notion that the physical world exists -- then I'm gonna have to stick up for the physical reality of my mic preamps. They are as real as my SM57's. Nail head scratches and all. I used to be in a band that had a old Rolls mixer. We set up on this one gig with it and after sound check the manager of all people came out and told us we needed another board as that one sounded like poop.We went and got a Mackie of some sort, 1604 or something and we were shocked at the difference in clarity.That had to do with the preamps being better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Recording a weak song with the best of technology will make it sound ok... But it will sound okay. It could be a good recording of a weak song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Ever heard a guy named Jeff Beck play one? Yeah, he put me to sleep once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Strats sound good.Well, classic Strats don't tend to be quiet. But I much prefer the way a Strat sounds (playing or listening) to that of an LP or other 'bucker-based guitar, even with the extra noise. That's one of the reasons that I almost never play my Gibson ES325 (sort of a rocker version of the '335, they only made them in the 70s). Different strokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 Well, classic Strats don't tend to be quiet. But I much prefer the way a Strat sounds (playing or listening) to that of an LP or other 'bucker-based guitar, even with the extra noise. That's one of the reasons that I almost never play my Gibson ES325 (sort of a rocker version of the '335, they only made them in the 70s). Different strokes. I actually like some strats. They're all so different. I have a Mexistrat that sounds just right to me. It's not as bright and shrill as most other strats, but it is pretty noisy. I usually record rhythm tracks with, and it sounds great opposite the SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 But I much prefer the way a Strat sounds (playing or listening) to that of an LP or other 'bucker-based guitar, AHEM, not all LPs are 'bucker based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 mic pres' are a myth but obviously many here do not think so. LOL, OK, you believe what you want. Me, I know this is bull{censored}. Geesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 AHEM, not all LPs are 'bucker based. That is a good myth! I think a lot of people don't know that P-90s are single-coils, or that the original LP sound is that of single coil pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 OK... I was trying to let this pass... I mean, I'm not a golden ear/golden gear guy by a million miles. But it strikes me as more than a bit of overreach to suggest there's no more difference between different pres (even in the 'affordable' sub-$1k level) than XLR jacks. Not only does my experience (based on some semi-rigorous AB comparisons) tell me that the different designs of mic pres in my modest gear collection most certainly can sound quite different from one another, but that impression is backed up by poking around in the circuit design and implementations. Are the differences huge? What's huge? They're noticeable, without question, particularly depending on what is put in and at what level.I think this one belongs in roomjello's thread on philosophy and phenomenology. While I will stipulate that all experience may be an illusion -- if one grants some leeway to the notion that the physical world exists -- then I'm gonna have to stick up for the physical reality of my mic preamps. They are as real as my SM57's. Nail head scratches and all. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2617063-Anybody-use-outboard-mic-pre-s-for-live-sound&highlight=mic+pre i'm not saying your not hearing something. i'm saying its likely not the preamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LRon Butterfly Posted May 11, 2011 Members Share Posted May 11, 2011 I remember seeing these extremely expensive AC wires to plug your receiver into to the wall. Forget about all that crappy old wire in the walls of your ancient home, it's the last six feet of AC before it hits your receiver that counts! Do you mean this $3500.00+ IEC cable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 Ya get that really expensive Hollywood guy to do the mix, this is gonna be awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 That is a good myth! I think a lot of people don't know that P-90s are single-coils, or that the original LP sound is that of single coil pickups.I shoulda stood in bed... But I stand corrected. (Not, of course, that I actually claimed they all were -- but I did call them humbucker-based, so close enough.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I'll start: the $500 high-mass knobs that add weight to your power amplifier, this keeping it from moving around, which (of course!) focuses the sound more. I'm sure all those electrons running around inside really care about the weight of the knobs. Well of COURSE it's not working out for you - you didn't get the $500 ultra-pure lacquer coating for those knobs silly. I like the little trestles they use to lift your wires up off the floor in order to make everything sound better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 file under: dead horse, beating "Don't worry -- no one will ever know we Auto-Tuned it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kotch Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 I have a Mexistrat that sounds just right to me. It's not as bright and shrill as most other strats, but it is pretty noisy. If a Strat is too bright and shrill, the first thing you need to do is adjust the pickup height downwards. My HSS was like that when I bought it. It sounds fine now I've got the pickups wound way down -- my neck pickup is actually flush with the pickguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2617063-Anybody-use-outboard-mic-pre-s-for-live-sound&highlight=mic+prei'm not saying your not hearing something. i'm saying its likely not the preamp. Preamps don't matter a whole lot in a typical live sound situation, so coming from that perspective I can see why you would say there's little difference. In a recording studio, you most definitely can hear differences. First of all you're often using more sensitive mics than you would ever use for live sound, and often you're recording very quiet sources. There's no crowd noise, and often no amp hiss or anything else to mask preamp noise at high gain. And it can be difficult to get enough gain out of some pres, given that you might be using a ribbon mic or very sensitive condenser on a quiet source. I prefer to just use the preamp in a console over an external pre, really, and not so many people used external pres before the advent of digital recording. The pres in the console were generally pretty great so there wasn't any reason to use an outboard pre unless you had some particular flavor you were after. But even among pretty cheap consoles, the pres sound different as well as having different amounts of gain, noise, distortion, etc. It's very noticeable in a studio environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 Preamps don't matter a whole lot in a typical live sound situation, so coming from that perspective I can see why you would say there's little difference. In a recording studio, you most definitely can hear differences. First of all you're often using more sensitive mics than you would ever use for live sound, and often you're recording very quiet sources. There's no crowd noise, and often no amp hiss or anything else to mask preamp noise at high gain. And it can be difficult to get enough gain out of some pres, given that you might be using a ribbon mic or very sensitive condenser on a quiet source.I prefer to just use the preamp in a console over an external pre, really, and not so many people used external pres before the advent of digital recording. The pres in the console were generally pretty great so there wasn't any reason to use an outboard pre unless you had some particular flavor you were after. But even among pretty cheap consoles, the pres sound different as well as having different amounts of gain, noise, distortion, etc. It's very noticeable in a studio environment. aside from the grace pre - the pre's being discussed so far range in the $0.30 range for parts. none will be so different among the mackie lines or other cheap designs as to have a measurable difference, although (and i keep repeating myself) other parts of the circuit will affect the sound differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted May 12, 2011 Members Share Posted May 12, 2011 Grace-Great on kik drums I love True Precison 8 on kick Pacifica on bass. RNP on electric piano as DI. Grace on choir in church. What else? SuPre on piano or sax. AEA with Royer on violin. And I love Behringer AMP800 for my headphone mixes in live sessions:) I use Mackie too for podcast recording sessions. Everything works where it suppose to work. We can use any gear if we know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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