Members Hard Truth Posted May 14, 2011 Members Share Posted May 14, 2011 Do you agree that there are two kinds of people-those who prefer Motown and those who prefer Stax records? Which are you? There's been plenty of great Motown records but overall I prefer the rawness of Stax records. PS Rufus Thomas is awesome and under appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted May 14, 2011 Members Share Posted May 14, 2011 I love both, but in my secret heart of hearts I prefer Stax. Don't tell anybody. And there are two kinds of people - those who have to lump everybody into just two kinds of people, and those who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bookumdano2 Posted May 14, 2011 Members Share Posted May 14, 2011 I never liked the "sound" of Motown stuff at all. Let's see.. when did it all start attacking the airwaves? .. summer of 62 or so? Out of nowhere, the stuff just wouldn't quit coming and I didn't like any of it (some songs.. yes .. "sound" .. no) . I even listen to the multitrack stems of my favorite "song" (Ain't No mtn high enough) and love the performance of Marvin etc, but yuk.. that sound. wait a minute... I do like the sound on Dionne Warwick's Walk On By .. but was that even done at Motown? Stax is all vibe all the time imo. Take "Hip Hug Her" or "Summertime" by Booker T or any other dozen recordings there. Yummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted May 14, 2011 Members Share Posted May 14, 2011 One of the very first 45s I bought was Hip-Hug-Her from Booker T. Obviously I liked the tune a lot, but it was the B-side Summertime that really knocked me out. We also played the grooves off of Mustang Sally/In The Midnight Hour, and Soul Man/Hold On I'm Coming, not knowing anything about Stax or who played backup, etc. So yeah, Stax I'd have to say - but there was no lack of love for Motown, either - Mary Wells, The Supremes, and in particular, Jr. Walker. Not to forget Mr. Wonder later on. My grandfather lived in Detroit, and for a lot of years we went to Michigan for summer vacation and drove past Motown records on the way to grandfather's old apartment. His apartment was just so much like the one Sean Connery's character lived in in Finding Forrester - a once upscalish apartment building in a neighborhood that the slums took over. All these old white folks - many of them who, like grandfather, lost their fortunes in the Depression - in the 60s and 70s still living in the old apartment houses since the 20s or 30s - we'd look out the windows and watch the black kids shooting craps against the old brick fences separating the apartment buildings housing ex-Chrysler or Packard corporate types fallen on hard times. Had those old wrought iron cage-like elevator doors, and the whole building absolutely reeked of corned beef and boiled cabbage...all this associates way back in my head with the old Motown material. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'll have to go against the grain here and state a pro-Motown position. They had all the elements: The sweet strings, the boomin' (well by 1960s sonic standards at least) bass, the tambourine, the swing and most of all the melodies. I also like Motown's chord progressions better. Nothin' against Stax at all, but the main difference is that Motown's roots are jazz and Stax's roots are the blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lsits Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary and those who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 Do you agree that there are two kinds of people-those who prefer Motown and those who prefer Stax records? Which are you? I'm both those people. And more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'm definitely more Stax than Motown, for sure. In the 60s, I just couldn't get into Motown stuff. But I found myself drifting to the grittier recordings, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin. (Aretha was on Atlantic, of course, in the day, but Redding was on Stax, as well as Atlantic sub-label, Atco.) I also found myself sucked into Al Green's music (he was on Hi Records). I think the first Motown stuff I really bonded with was the wave of socially conscious stuff in the late 60s -- but it was "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" that really grabbed me. Of course, there wasn't much that rose to that level (from anyone) before or after, but... damn, what a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 If I absolutely had to choose, I might go Motown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 And now with the popularity of shows like American Idol and Glee, they are being pounded into the next generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'll have to go against the grain here and state a pro-Motown position. They had all the elements: The sweet strings, the boomin' (well by 1960s sonic standards at least) bass, the tambourine, the swing and most of all the melodies. I also like Motown's chord progressions better. Nothin' against Stax at all, but the main difference is that Motown's roots are jazz and Stax's roots are the blues. Ditto, ditto and ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted May 15, 2011 Members Share Posted May 15, 2011 Sinatra. (He did a later studio version in '67; the one I'm referring to is from 1946, from The Voice of Frank Sinatra.) I really lost interest in Glee after the first couple episodes; I do still watch American Idol, though. I think it is crucial how you first become exposed to the music. Shows like Glee and AI make the music the focal point. It isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 16, 2011 New idea for Glee episode. Motown vs. Stax. The episode peaks when Glee supervillian Jane Lynch jumps out on stage and nails a rendition of Isaac Hayes' Hyperbolicsyllabicsesquedalymistic. [video=youtube;8N8k3uJu6K8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N8k3uJu6K8 Lynch grinds and pivots (wearing a BeDazzled track suit) while laying down the law a la Isaac, the stunned cast looks on, nods and smiles at each other and join her in the chorus singing... "Hyperbolicsyllabicsesquedalymistic..." yeah, ahh, ungh At that point, Motown goes down like the Titanic. Or rather, like Detroit. Hot Buttered What?!?! Hot Buttered Glee, ya'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gabriel E. Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 I've always preferred Motown. It has a sweeping epic quality that makes it unique. The songwriting and arrangements are amazing. The cool thing about music though is that you get to like more than just one thing. So I can like Motown and also like Stax/Volt. Albert King's "Live Wire/Blues Power" is one of the best guitar records ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halfnote Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 Do you agree that there are two kinds of people-those who prefer Motown and those who prefer Stax records? Which are you?There's been plenty of great Motown records but overall I prefer the rawness of Stax records.PS Rufus Thomas is awesome and under appreciated. Naw, I don't agree with the basic premise.There's a diff between the 2 companies's production styles & the markets they were aimed at but to carry that over to the listeners is a false dichotomy b/c the diffs are really fairly slight.Motown had more of a mainstream pop goal, Stax more of a catch-all for whichever regional acts they signed......but to put too fine a point on this is like drawing a line between people who like 2 shades of the same color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 How old do you have to be to know wtf you guys are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2011 How old do you have to be to know wtf you guys are talking about? Really old. Listen to the Isaac Hayes video I posted and just know that Motown would have never put that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 Really old.Listen to the Isaac Hayes video I posted and just know that Motown would have never put that out. Lol. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2011 Oh... {censored}, I thought we were bonding for a second! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 No, no bonding going on here. People who are curious about music before their time or who had parents who played "oldie" stations would be familiar with Stax/Volt or Motown in addition to people who grew up with that music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 Oh... shit, I thought we were bonding for a second! It's not that. We're bonded. I just don't feel like watching the clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 No, no bonding going on here. People who are curious about music before their time or who had parents who played "oldie" stations would be familiar with Stax/Volt or Motown in addition to people who grew up with that music. I listen to oldies all the time. I'd say 50-75% of my own personal musical influence is pre-1970. Mostly surf and rockabilly though. I've heard of Motown but don't associate any particular sound or style with it. Early soul I guess? Smokey Robinson? Tears of a Clown, or some shit like that? Great music, but I couldn't care less what record company it came from. I'm more of a Phil Spector kind of guy anyway. Good producer and he kills bitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 I've heard of Motown but don't associate any particular sound or style with it. Early soul I guess? I'm hardly an expert myself, but here's a list someone compiled of 100 greatest Motown songs that, if nothing else, might indicate a sort of vibe or sound that they had: 1. I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Marvin Gaye 2. My Girl - Temptations 3. Reach Out I'll Be There - Four Tops 4. Where Did Our Love Go? - Supremes 5. What's Goin' On? - Marvin Gaye 6. Dancing in the Street - Martha & The Vandellas 7. I Want You Back - Jackson 5 8. Superstition - Stevie Wonder 9. Please Mr. Postman - Marvelettes10. My Guy - Mary Wells11. (Love Is Like a) Heat Wave - Martha & The Vandellas12. Do You Love Me? - Contours13. Let's Get It On - Marvin Gaye14. Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell15. The Tracks of My Tears - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles16. Shotgun - Jr. Walker & The All Stars17. I'll Be There - Jackson 518. Baby Love - Supremes19. Papa Was a Rollin' Stone - Temptations20. Uptight (Everything's Alright) - Stevie Wonder21. I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch) - Four Tops22. The Tears of a Clown - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles23. Stop! In the Name of Love - Supremes24. You've Really Got a Hold On Me - Miracles25. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me) - Temptations26. Baby I Need Your Lovin' - Four Tops27. You Are the Sunshine of My Life - Stevie Wonder28. Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell29. Money (That's What I Want) - Barrett Strong30. Leavin' Here - Eddie Holland31. Shop Around - Miracles32. You Keep Me Hangin' On - Supremes33. You Can't Hurry Love - Supremes34. Endless Love - Lionel Richie & Diana Ross35. Signed, Sealed, Delivered - Stevie Wonder36. Ooo Baby Baby - Miracles37. Nowhere To Run - Martha & The Vandellas38. It Takes Two - Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston39. War - Edwin Starr40. I Second That Emotion - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles41. Super Freak Part I - Rick James42. Living For the City - Stevie Wonder43. I Heard It Through the Grapevine - Gladys Knight & The Pips44. Higher Ground - Stevie Wonder45. Ain't Too Proud To Beg - Temptations46. I Can't Get Next To You - Temptations47. Cloud Nine - Temptations48. Ball of Confusion (That's What the World Is Today) - Temptations49. Smiling Faces Sometimes - Undisputed Truth50. This Old Heart of Mine (Is Weak For You) - Isley Brothers51. What Becomes of the Brokenhearted? - Jimmy Ruffin52. Inner City Blues (Makes Me Wanna Holler) - Marvin Gaye53. Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology) - Marvin Gaye54. Playboy - Marvelettes55. Jimmy Mack - Martha & The Vandellas56. Don't Mess With Bill - Marvelettes57. Since I Lost My Baby - Temptations58. Don't Leave Me This Way - Thelma Houston59. All Night Long (All Night) - Lionel Richie60. Going To a Go-Go - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles61. Fingertips Part II - Stevie Wonder62. The One Who Really Loves You - Mary Wells63. Neither One of Us (Wants to Be the First to Say Goodbye) - Gladys Knight & The Pips64. Love Hangover - Diana Ross65. Upside Down (Inside Out) - Diana Ross66. Brick House - Commodores67. I Wish It Would Rain - Temptations68. Beechwood 4-5789 - Marvelettes69. The Hunter Gets Captured By the Game - Marvelettes70. Bernadette - Four Tops71. Somebody's Watching Me - Rockwell72. Hello - Lionel Richie73. It's the Same Old Song - Four Tops74. You've Made Me So Very Happy - Brenda Holloway75. Jamie - Eddie Holland76. Your Precious Love - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell77. Quicksand - Martha & The Vandellas78. Come and Get These Memories - Martha & The Vandellas79. Keep on Truckin' Part I - Eddie Kendricks80. Needle In a Haystack - Velvelettes81. (I'm a) Roadrunner - Junior Walker & The All-Stars82. ABC - Jackson 583. I'm Coming Out - Diana Ross84. Give It To Me Baby - Rick James85. Cruisin' - Smokey Robinson86. My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me) - David Ruffin87. Three Times a Lady - Commodores88. Heaven Must Have Sent You - Bonnie Pointer/The Elgins89. Let It Whip - Dazz Band90. It's a Shame - Spinners91. Baby I'm For Real - Originals92. The Bells - Originals93. He Was Really Sayin' Somethin' - Velvelettes94. Come To Me - Marv Johnson95. I Need Your Lovin' - Teena Marie96. The Love You Save - Jackson 597. What Does It Take (To Win Your Love?) - Jr. Walker98. Function At The Junction - Shorty Long99. Does Your Mama Know About Me? - Bobby Taylor & The Vancouvers100. Greetings (This Is Uncle Sam) - Monitors/Valadiers http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songs-motown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 Lol. Wow. Yeah I'd say I like most, but not all, of those songs. Some really good stuff in there. So what is "Stax" then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 17, 2011 Members Share Posted May 17, 2011 Definition: Like Motown, the music commonly known as "Stax/Volt" refers to a style created and harbored by one independent company -- just as Motown music is called "Tamla/Motown" in the UK, to represent the joint label it was issued on there, "Stax/Volt" refers to the music produced by Jim Stewart and his sister Estelle Axton in Memphis during the '60s, and released on several different labels, those two being the most prominent. (Indie music companies of the day often formed a number of labels in order to ensure that radio stations, forbidden by new payola rules to play a lot of music from one imprint, would give all their songs equal exposure.)The Stax empire was created by Stewart and Axton (hence the name) and run from an old converted movie theater in Memphis, ensuring that the sound these label(s) produced was remarkably consistent. The typical Stax/Volt single (sometimes not even issued on any of Stewart and Axton's labels, as the company also had a deal with Atlantic) was an upbeat version of "deep soul," that is, soul with a heavy gospel influence, an extremely emotional presentation, and very hard backbeat. The majority of Stax's output from their glory days of 1962-1970 was created by a group informally referred to as The Big Six -- guitarist and songwriter Steve Cropper, bassist "Duck" Dunn, drummer Al Jackson Jr., organist Booker T. Jones, and songwriter/producers David Porter and Isaac Hayes. The first four of these made up the core of Stax's "house band," Booker T. and the MGs; Cropper's squirrely, blues-based guitar leads are a major signifier of the label's sound. (Hayes would go on to be a star in his own right in the '70s with the theme from "Shaft.")The Stax/Volt sound defined "hard" soul in its time, but as the Seventies wore on, R&B became sweeter and lighter in an attempt to cross over to pop radio, and the style fell from favor.Also Known As: Deep Soul, Memphis Soulhttp://oldies.about.com/od/soulmotown/g/What-Is-Stax-Volt-Music.htm Biggest hits:"(Sittin' on) the Dock of the Bay," "Try A Little Tenderness," "I've Been Loving You Too Long (To Stop Now)," "These Arms Of Mine," Otis Redding"Green Onions," "Time Is Tight," Booker T. and the MGs"Theme From Shaft," Isaac Hayes"Respect Yourself," "I'll Take You There," "If You're Ready (Come Go With Me)," The Staple Singers"Hold On! I'm Coming," "When Something Is Wrong With My Baby," "Soul Man," Sam and Dave"Walking The Dog," Rufus Thomas"Gee Whiz,"* "B-A-B-Y," Carla Thomas"Tramp," Otis and Carla"Born Under A Bad Sign," Albert King"Knock On Wood," Eddie Floyd"Soul Finger," The Bar-Kays"Who's Making Love," Johnnie Taylor"(If Loving You is Wrong) I Don't Want to be Right," Luther Ingram"You Don't Miss Your Water," William Bell"In The Midnight Hour,"* "634-5789 (Soulsville, U.S.A.)"* Wilson Pickett* recorded at Stax studios but not issued on Stax label Essential albums:Otis Blue (1965), The Otis Redding Dictionary Of Soul (1966), The Dock Of The Bay (1967), The Immortal Otis Redding (1968), Otis ReddingHip Hug-Her (1967), Booker T. and the MGsHot Buttered Soul (1969), Shaft (1971), Isaac HayesBorn Under A Bad Sign (1967), Albert KingNo. 1 Record (1972), Radio City (1973), Big StarThat N*****'s Crazy (1974), Richard Pryor http://oldies.about.com/od/soulmotown/p/staxvolt.htm Examples:"I Can't Turn You Loose," Otis Redding (purchase/download)"Green Onions," Booker T. and the MGs (purchase/download)"Hold On! I'm Coming," Sam and Dave (purchase/download)"Knock On Wood," Eddie Floyd (purchase/download)"Soul Finger," The Bar-Kays (purchase/download)"Who's Making Love," Johnnie Taylor (purchase/download)"In The Midnight Hour," Wilson Pickett (purchase/download)"Walking The Dog," Rufus Thomas (purchase/download)"You Don't Miss Your Water," William Bell (purchase/download)"Last Night," The Mar-Keys (purchase/download)http://oldies.about.com/od/soulmotown/g/What-Is-Stax-Volt-Music.htm Snippets of Stax songs:http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1037442/a/Stax%3A+Top+Of+The+Stax,+Vol.+1%3A+Twenty+Greatest+Hits.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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