What Would You Have Done?

[Ernest Buckley]

 

You know that, according to the various EULAs either signed or implied, you only own the actual physical disks themselves, not the contents of the disks, right? If you make a digital copy for yourself as back-up or storage, you have essentially 'pirated' the disk, according to the MPAA or RIAA. Did you consider loaning the set to her so she could watch them?

 

 

Its an exercise DVD series... she is a fitness buff but whatever, she specifically said she wanted to borrow it so she could make a copy of it.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable response, except for the getting pissed off part. Getting angry never changes anyone's mind, because it puts them on the defensive. Most people I know are totally cool with pirating, and I'm not, but I don't get upset with them. It's no use. If copying things or swapping MP3's comes up in conversation, I generally don't involve myself in that part of the conversation. But if I were in your position, and I was asked straight out, I probably would have used the exact same words, but not been pissed off while saying them. Maybe it helps that I expect most people to disappoint me, so when they do, it's not upsetting.

 

 

I think what pisses me off is that they have the $$$ and they do know what I do for a living. They know I also write music. Its just really frustrating and when it was asked in a crowded room so nonchalantly, I just got really pissed, besides this is just another episode... there have been more in the past but they did not directly involve me.

[Beck]

I would have let her, but I don't feel the same way about copyright as you do. I think copyright law overstepped its bounds long ago with legislation that is quite unconstitutional, but there were no lobbying groups powerful enough to oppose record companies at the height of their power and influence when laws were amended. I'm so disgusted with the whole copyright thing I've all but given up on it. Many parts of the law are in violation of the 1st Amendment. I think at this point the law is much more in the wrong than any good it does. And any good it does is no justification for it becoming so overreaching.

 

I guess basically I'm not going to put the assholes that have been abusing the system for decades above family or friends. I certainly wouldn't risk a rift between people who matter to me.

 

It

[Ernest Buckley]

 

I would have let her, but I don't feel the same way about copyright as you do. I think copyright law overstepped its bounds long ago with legislation that is quite unconstitutional, but there were no lobbying groups powerful enough to oppose record companies at the height of their power and influence when laws were amended. I'm so disgusted with the whole copyright thing I've all but given up on it. Many parts of the law are in violation of the 1st Amendment. I think at this point the law is much more in the wrong than any good it does. And any good it does is no justification for it becoming so overreaching.   I guess basically I'm not going to put the assholes that have been abusing the system for decades above family or friends. I certainly wouldn't risk a rift between people who matter to me.   It

[A. Einstein]

Persons who acquire without permission intellectual property should be dispossessed of all their property, all tangible assets sold on ebay, and the proceeds given to the IP owners, plus 5-10 re-education camp.

[Potts]

My God the OP is awfully pretentious. Seriously we get it..you're a saint. So you wont play a club that hasn't paid ASCAP fees I'm assuming?

[Beck]

Ernest, Now that my rant is over and I got that out of my system I admit you have a point and I understand. While I don

[Lee Knight]

 

It's nice of you to want to do what you feel is the right thing, but seriously there hasn't been a time since cassette came out that people haven't made copies for friends and family. And even before cassette. The Beatles (Before they were officially the Beatles) heard their first American pop music on "illegal" reel-to-reel copies of albums. Many artists were exposed to these copies that were being passed around and recopied in the UK at that time.

 

 

 

"There hasn't be a time" that kids haven't stole 6 packs of beer from 7/11 either, but that's hardly justification for it. I'll bet Herman's Hermits fueled early rehearsals on stolen lager so there's all the more reason to turn our heads as kids steal 6 packs. Beck, you're seeing this as a battle against "them". But unfortunately "them" includes the artist as well.

[A. Einstein]

St. Ernesto is a saint with a message to up to 90% of the world population.

 

 

Music piracy rates by country:

 

USA = 85%

China = 90%

Switzerland 45%

 

The fill list can also be used to see where the people have the most cash.

[urca]

Who cares? Everyone associated with that DVD already made money off it when you paid for it, it's yours to do with it as you please. I'd burn them for her and charge her a nominal fee for my time and materials.

[A. Einstein]

 

Who cares? Everyone associated with that DVD already made money off it when you paid for it, it's yours to do with it as you please. I'd burn them for her and charge her a nominal fee for my time and materials.

 

 

as said ---> re-education camp!

 

with people like urca, farmer Joe steps in front of his house one morning and all potaoes left via internet and are traded via P2P, hahhaha

[scarecrowbob]

"with people like urca, farmer Joe steps in front of his house one morning and all potaoes left via internet and are traded via P2P, hahhaha"

 

Yes, if you could reduce the cost of distributing food to nil for a big chunk of the world's population, you definitely deserve the camp....

 

Just think about it.... there'd be no more food development, just the crusty old staple foods that are boring and old, and we'd all have to make due with eating as much of whatever we want whenever we needed it.

 

To top it off, all the good innovators like Monsanto and Conagra would shrivel up and die... and the economy would tank, because who would create all the jobs people need in order to be able to afford to eat ??!?!?

 

We'd all starve to death!!!

[JeffLearman]

 

Now I know exactly what I'm doing when I copy songs and I do it all with a big, "{censored} you" to the record companies, the RIAA, ASCAP and BMI, and any other group that has a problem with it.

Unfortunately, you're also sending a big "{censored} you" to the songwriters and artists who need the royalty income. Sure, the big companies rip the artists off on that too, but that's no excuse.

 

I do agree with you that the big companies who whine loudest about protecting IP rights have pushed things way too far, even though they're the biggest and most systematic violators of IP rights (screwing the artists ... just ask Frank Zappa. I'll loan you my ouija board.)

 

You're right that it's OK to copy your own stuff. My father, an IP lawyer, said it's expected and normal that people share among family members. I also like your reasoning that family members are more important than the record companies. But I respect anyone who says their principles are more important than a family member's whim.

 

And a request to copy a whole collection? That's not sharing, that's ripping off the musicians.

 

My reply would be "If you want to copy any specific CDs, just let me know which ones. But no on the whole collection. Musicians deserve to be paid for their work, just like everyone else."

 

I used that "Musicians deserve to be paid" line to a friend once who'd asked me to copy a specific CD. She replied that she'd spent a quite a bit on the particular artist, seeing her at numerous shows and buying that CD several times already, but the latest one was broken or missing. I said "oops OK never mind!" and made her a copy.

[MrKnobs]

I'd have just told her they can't be copied and offered to loan her one or two at a time. The no copy statement would probably be true for her, as she doesn't know about the non-US version of Apollo DVD copy and other programs of the sort. Or inform her of some egregious prison term awarded to someone who copied.

 

Terry D>

[A. Einstein]

if she isn't my sister, I would have told here she can copy 1 DVD per blowjob,

 

I guess for an Americans it doesn't matter sister or not.

 

[JeffLearman]

 

Copyright is not so black and white. For example you can go to your local library and checkout that DVD set of yours in some places and other CD's DVD's and videos. Now just for grins say you go to the library and checkout a music CD. You can go back and check it out as many times as you like... or you can stop wasting time, money for gas and reduce your carbon footprint (from car exhaust) by making your own working copy of the library CD. The only difference will be that you're not making trips to the library. This is actually quite common... people do it all the time

And all the time, it's black and white illegal. You have no argument here. It's legal for the library to loan the CDs; it's not legal to copy them. There's an ethical distinction, too. If you keep borrowing the CDs fine; that's your right. If the library has to order more copied because it's a popular title, fine. But if you've copied it, you now have it in your library to use any time, and you haven't paid for it. You got the benefit of someone else's work illegally and without benefit to them.

 

Yes, the big businesses are unethical and have pushed things too far. But two wrongs don't make a right.

 

On the other hand, there are copyright provisions that I think go too far (especially some aspects of DMCA) and I don't hesitate to violate them. In fact, I have absolutely no remorse telling people that holding down the shift key when inserting certain kinds of copy-protected CDs into a computer avoids the copy protection. According to DCMA, I just committed a felony. :-o So, I don't argue with your stand that you choose which laws you abide by and which you don't. (I sometimes break the speed limit, too -- don't tell anyone!)

[A. Einstein]

You can avoid all that {censored} & RIAA and technology

 

when you listen to the BLACKBIRD at 04:00 AM.

[UstadKhanAli]

I don't see what is pretentious about the OP either.

[Lee Knight]

if she isn't my sister, I would have told here she can copy 1 DVD per blowjob, I guess for an Americans it doesn't matter sister or not.

 

Why is it when euros make fun of Americans it's supposed to be cleverer than Swiss Cheese jokes. Really? Dude, gotta step up your humor a tad. It's like me saying all Swiss like to have sex with their cheese. The little holes. Hey! I made a Rudy!!!!

[A. Einstein]

It's like me saying all Swiss like to have sex with their cheese. The little holes. Hey! I made a Rudy!!!!

 

According to my scientific researches in the last 22 years living here, that is almost true. One day cheese, next day goat.

[UstadKhanAli]

Why is it when euros make fun of Americans it's supposed to be cleverer than Swiss Cheese jokes. Really? Dude, gotta step up your humor a tad. It's like me saying all Swiss like to have sex with their cheese. The little holes. Hey! I made a Rudy!!!!

 

See, that's the point I was trying to make in an earlier thread. If you're going to be annoying like Rudangelo, you at least gotta bring the funny. Otherwise, what's the point of keeping you around?

[A. Einstein]

I am total earnest. I make no fun. Never.

 

 

 

Otherwise, what's the point of keeping you around?

 

 

I would miss Lee Knight.

[veracohr]

I definitely agree that the major labels and RIAA went way overboard suing people and all that, but major label releases aren't the only ones that get copied. People are pretty equal-opportunity in that regard; they'll copy any damned thing they want.

 

One of my favorite goa trance labels, Suntrip Records, recently sold out of one of their releases from 3 years ago. They typically make a single run of I think 1000 CD's for each album, and only once I think did they print a second run because there was enough demand. It's a small label in a small market that exists for the love of the music. So this particular album, by one of their more popular artists, took 3 years to sell 1000 copies.

 

When someone goes and copies an album like that, or downloads MP3's, it's a much different picture. It has a direct impact on the label's ability to release future music. But there are still people in that small music community who do it, and give the exact same arguments for doing so as someone copying a megalabel's release.

[Philter]

I don't have the same feelings about copying stuff as the p.c. corporate line here espouses. The only places I see people talking about piracy like it's a problem is in the major media and on sites with vested interests. In my normal life, all the people I interact with have no such qualms. I've never met anyone in my day to day life who talks about piracy like the RIAA does, or even like the mods on a forum like this.

 

I'm not exactly thrilled about where all this ended up, but the reality is that the cat is out of the bag and pretending like it isn't doesn't work. As a content creator I'm annoyed by all of it... how nonchalant people are about copying, about the crappy labels that were too stupid to adapt, about the self-defeating efforts of leech-like organizations such as the RIAA... it's all a mess. It would be easy for me to blame my struggles as a musician on a public that undervalues our efforts. But that's a waste of time, because reality is reality and no one gives a {censored} about anything else.

 

We need new models and new ways to think about monetizing creative media works. Again, the cat is out of the bag and pretending it isn't does not work. Piracy will not be defeated on an open web. Will not happen. And if we have to choose between an open web or enforceable copyright law, I am 100% behind an open web.

 

My latest idea is to start by giving stuff away for free, and then tie future releases to funding through online donations, either directly or via services like kickstarter. In other words, get people hooked, and then make them pay up front if they want more. Here's a free album. You like it? We release the next one when we raise $x up front. I insist on getting paid up front for everything else I do; why not the creative stuff too? In theory, the people who really, really dig it will be willing to pony up more, which to me seems fair. Look at how freaked out people got when Fiona Apple got {censored}ed by her record label on the last album. They didn't get her creative vision and didn't want to release it, and the fan base flipped out. Channel that energy into monetization.

[A. Einstein]

Please discuss with your judge why you steal. We don't give a damn about criminals, and one less on the street is fine with me.