Amp GAS time!!! Marshall 1W tubes NEW!!!

Ratae Corieltauvorum · January 27, 2012

And these are obscenely expensive.

Try and buy a new Mesa for less than a grand:idk:

Willyguitar · January 27, 2012

Try and buy a new Mesa for less than a grand:idk:

Well, there's the key. I'd never even consider a Mesa. But I might consider a well priced Marshall. OK, I guess it is made in UK, so won't be cheap.

oates · January 27, 2012

The concept of a very low wattage Marshall seems a contradiction in terms somehow. Surely the beauty of Marshall is that they are meant to create a huge sound, to be played very LOUD! The EL34 thang. You might as well get a good modelling amp, that emulates some of these so called models well...

And these are obscenely expensive.

After playing my Class 5 - I have to say it is still slamming loud and the tone is amazing. I know its not considered one of the best Marshalls (by some) but the tone rocks. This is why I'm so excited about my next Marshall. I don't expect the 1 watt to be much less in terms of loudness but I'm hoping it offers a variety of tones a bit different than the class 5. I plan on going for the JMP and am hoping it offers a different Marshall flavor.

I'm also hoping BlackCustom is right in that it will be even better than the Class.

I have a class 5 combo now not sure if I should be rocking head or combo. I don't have a cab (other than a blackstar 10") so I'll probabaly work with the combo. I just wish they came with 12" inside.

sxyryan · January 27, 2012

After playing my Class 5 - I have to say it is still slamming loud and the tone is amazing. I know its not considered one of the best Marshalls (by some) but the tone rocks. This is why I'm so excited about my next Marshall. I don't expect the 1 watt to be much less in terms of loudness but I'm hoping it offers a variety of tones a bit different than the class 5. I plan on going for the JMP and am hoping it offers a different Marshall flavor.

I'm also hoping BlackCustom is right in that it will be even better than the Class.

I have a class 5 combo now not sure if I should be rocking head or combo. I don't have a cab (other than a blackstar 10") so I'll probabaly work with the combo. I just wish they came with 12" inside.

The best parts of the Class 5 stem from how you use it. If it sits in your bedroom and you never move it, try it with a larger quality external cabinet, and you will see on of the reasons people have beef with this amp.

Of course, if you're taking it places, you know, back and forth to school, or to your buddies house for jams, then the small size along with decent tone combine to work for you.

I love my class 5, and it serves two purposes for me. It's a great little practice amp. I go to college, and can't lug my Classic 50 up the stairs and take it home every time I have a gig. Plus the larger cabinet has a bass response that carries through the walls a lot more, and my neighbors hate me as it is. On the other hand, when my band gigs venues where the amps are mic'd that little bastard cranked up and boosted is my dream tone, realistically achieved ($$$ wise).

If I was going to get one of these amps (I still might, that video sounds horrendously good) I would get the heads. Most Marshalls need a good closed back cab to get that tone, and those tiny combos would scare me off a little. I think one of those heads into a vertical 212 would be an awesome @ home rig.

oates · January 27, 2012

The best parts of the Class 5 stem from how you use it. If it sits in your bedroom and you never move it, try it with a larger quality external cabinet, and you will see on of the reasons people have beef with this amp.

Of course, if you're taking it places, you know, back and forth to school, or to your buddies house for jams, then the small size along with decent tone combine to work for you.

I love my class 5, and it serves two purposes for me. It's a great little practice amp. I go to college, and can't lug my Classic 50 up the stairs and take it home every time I have a gig. Plus the larger cabinet has a bass response that carries through the walls a lot more, and my neighbors hate me as it is. On the other hand, when my band gigs venues where the amps are mic'd that little bastard cranked up and boosted is my dream tone, realistically achieved ($$$ wise).

If I was going to get one of these amps (I still might, that video sounds horrendously good) I would get the heads. Most Marshalls need a good closed back cab to get that tone, and those tiny combos would scare me off a little. I think one of those heads into a vertical 212 would be an awesome @ home rig.

I was thinking the same thing about these amps....but my class 5 has beyond what I need in bass.....its almost woofy at some points when the bass is too hot. Once I back that off it's perfect. I'm shocked at the bass that I get out of my class 5 (considering its stocked with a 10" speaker).

oates · January 27, 2012

I respectfully disagree. The Marshall 2061x (another tiny box with a Marshall badge and the wrong tubes) sounds glorious and and every bit a NMV Marshall. Some will argue it doesn't sound exactly like a Plexi, and they're right - it isn't a Plexi. But few would say that they don't sound awesome and are significantly superior (and MUCH closer to a Plexi) than any number of cheap SS practice amps. Marshall afficianados readily pay nearly the same prices for original 18 watt and 20 watt Marshalls as original Plexis.

I'm not a modeler hater, I think they have their applications, and low volume performance is one of their strengths. My problem with them is that I like the feel of proper amp and can tell the difference.

For me, NMV Marshall tone is a bit of a holy grail, and I haven't heard anything that sounds like it except from NMV Marshalls. Some may get it from pedals, some from modelers, but I have tried both and found them lacking. It may work for other folks, but I'm still looking.

On the other hand, the 2061x is a satisfactory substitute for a Plexi for my needs, except I can't crank it at home. The Class 5 sounds good and does sound like a NMV Marshall, but has too many compromises in the circuit (mostly to meet a price point) and is still too loud for me to use at home.

I think a lot of people get caught up in the idea that because an amp comes in a smaller box or has less power, it should be correspondingly less expensive. This is actually a little surprising, since you don't hear a lot of complaints that a 50W head is nearly as expensive a similar 100W head - shouldn't they cost half as much?

The Class 5 head bears this perception out and shows Marshall understands it. The Class has a price tag to match it's physical size. IMHO they could have made that amp a lot better, but it would have been more expensive and not have sold nearly as well.

That's why I have some hopes for these "expensive" 1 watters. But I will continue to withhold judgement until I can hear one.

BlackCustom - would you go with the 1 watt JMP or JCM for GNR type tones? I have a class 5 already so looking for something to add a different Marshall flavor.

Strung_Out · January 27, 2012

I'm fairly certain I'll pony up for the JCM800 when it comes available.

Steadfastly · January 27, 2012

Win.

For that price, it's a loser. There are much better amps to be had for that price.

GAS Man · January 27, 2012

Well sorta, but the price isn't win

Yeah, I just saw that and dang near {censored}e me trousers.

Not at all what I expected. Heck, that's more than the Class 5 idn't it?

Wyatt · January 27, 2012

BlackCustom - would you go with the 1 watt JMP or JCM for GNR type tones? I have a class 5 already so looking for something to add a different Marshall flavor.

I would probably go for the JCM.

What these really are the same as a tube preamp or "amp in pedal" design put in an enclosure, the power amp is neither designed nor will function like the power amps on the much larger Marshalls, so the non-master-volume tone will never be "big Marshall, shrunk down." The phase inverter deign itself has a big impact on the Plexi/JMP crunch and small single-end amps have no phase inverter. I would look at the JCM because it'll probably allow the most versatility and it (the following models) makes the most use of the preamp design, which is heart of these amps. But the JCM seems like that's going to be the model everyone is saving up for, so i expect the 150 of those to sell rather quickly.

oates · January 27, 2012

I would probably go for the JCM.

What these really are the same as a tube preamp or "amp in pedal" design put in an enclosure, the power amp is neither designed nor will function like the power amps on the much larger Marshalls, so the non-master-volume tone will never be "big Marshall, shrunk down." The phase inverter deign itself has a big impact on the Plexi/JMP crunch and small single-end amps have no phase inverter. I would look at the JCM because it'll probably allow the most versatility and it (the following models) makes the most use of the preamp design, which is heart of these amps. But the JCM seems like that's going to be the model everyone is saving up for, so i expect the 150 of those to sell rather quickly.

Thanks for the information. I really wish I understood what you were talking about a bit better. I've tried some of the pedal in a box pedals and nothing came close to the Class 5. How is it different?

Thanks again!

scolfax · January 27, 2012

For that price, it's a loser. There are much better amps to be had for that price.

I've heard a few people say that. Can you list a few so that I can get an idea?

oates · January 27, 2012

I would probably go for the JCM.

What these really are the same as a tube preamp or "amp in pedal" design put in an enclosure, the power amp is neither designed nor will function like the power amps on the much larger Marshalls, so the non-master-volume tone will never be "big Marshall, shrunk down." The phase inverter deign itself has a big impact on the Plexi/JMP crunch and small single-end amps have no phase inverter. I would look at the JCM because it'll probably allow the most versatility and it (the following models) makes the most use of the preamp design, which is heart of these amps. But the JCM seems like that's going to be the model everyone is saving up for, so i expect the 150 of those to sell rather quickly.

In line for the JCM with a shop. Thanks for the thoughts. When I started listening to demos I got to thinking. That one will be more versatile. Also - the Class 5 hits some great tones but doesn't quite get the level of dirt I need. The JCM1 sounds like it does in the namm demos.

Wyatt · January 27, 2012

Thanks for the information. I really wish I understood what you were talking about a bit better. I've tried some of the pedal in a box pedals and nothing came close to the Class 5. How is it different?

Thanks again!

Well, the key to vintage amp overdrive was that the only Volume knob is located after the very first gain stage.

So the guitar signal hits that first gain stage (usually 1/2 of a 12AX7 tube) and it is amplified (up to) 100 fold (gain). If that signal moves onto the next stage it hits it so hard that the tube can't handle it and it clips (clipping) off the tops and bottoms of the sine wave, creating a square wave (distortion), but it in turn that gain stage amplifies that square wave multi-fold again and the whole process is repeated on down the line, like a snowball rolling down hill, each tube clips and amplifies the signal.

Well, that Volume control comes right after the first gain stage and allows you to trim that gain down so a smaller snowball before you roll it down the hill.

In these amps, when you turn them up, every tube overdrives and distorts the signal. And the big, fat, thunderous tones you know for classic rock albums are the result of a combination of overdrive in the preamp, phase inverter and power amp, but the latter two deliver much of the bigger sound.

In latter, Master Volume amps, they keep the original Volume control after the first gain stage (often renaming this knob "Gain" or "Pre-Volume", but it's the same damn control it always was), and they add an extra "Master" Volume control either before (most common) or after (very common in boutique amps) the phase inverter stage. This Master Volume allows you to turn the signal down before it reaches the power tubes, so it doesn't shake the house at more than full RMS output. It is a barrier that only lets so much of the snowball squeeze through.

What a lot of tube-based pedals (Mesa, Budda, Soldano and others) and rack-mount preamps (Marshall, Mesa, Soldano and others) do is take everything that comes before the phase inverter and mount it into a smaller enclosure. The preamp is the same as it would be in an amp...there just isn't a phase inverter or power tubes. The downside is there isn't a phase inverter or power tubes to get that additional phase inverter overdrive and power tube overdrive for that true '60's and '70's non-master-volume Marshall crunch.

The Class 5 still lacks the phase inverter, but at least as a full-size power tube. These 1 watts are more like those tube-equipped pedals and preamp, they are the preamp strapped onto micro power amp that consists of a small 12AU7 tube (usually used a driver tube in hi-fi's) and an output transformer. The preamp will be the dominant voice of the 1-watt 50 Anniversary models, the power amp will never deliver what it's larger predecessors could in terms of fat, thunderous poweramp crunch.

So, my suggestion is, go with the preamp that offers the most versatility...multiple gain levels, master Volume, etc. And for these amps, those start with the JCM1. But ultimately, small wattage tube amps can never deliver the tone of large tube amps. They have to be treated as their own thing.

Willyguitar · January 27, 2012

Well, the key to vintage amp overdrive was that the only Volume knob is located after the very first gain stage.

So the guitar signal hits that first gain stage (usually 1/2 of a 12AX7 tube) and it is amplified (up to) 100 fold (gain). If that signal moves onto the next stage it hits it so hard that the tube can't handle it and it clips (clipping) off the tops and bottoms of the sine wave, creating a square wave (distortion), but it in turn that gain stage amplifies that square wave multi-fold again and the whole process is repeated on down the line, like a snowball rolling down hill, each tube clips and amplifies the signal.

Well, that Volume control comes right after the first gain stage and allows you to trim that gain down so a smaller snowball before you roll it down the hill.

In these amps, when you turn them up, every tube overdrives and distorts the signal. And the big, fat, thunderous tones you know for classic rock albums are the result of a combination of overdrive in the preamp, phase inverter and power amp, but the latter two deliver much of the bigger sound.

In latter, Master Volume amps, they keep the original Volume control after the first gain stage (often renaming this knob "Gain" or "Pre-Volume", but it's the same damn control it always was), and they add an extra "Master" Volume control either before (most common) or after (very common in boutique amps) the phase inverter stage. This Master Volume allows you to turn the signal down before it reaches the power tubes, so it doesn't shake the house at more than full RMS output.

What a lot of tube-based pedals (Mesa, Budda, Soldano and others) and rack-mount preamps (MArhsall, mesa, Soldano and others) do is take everything that comes before the phase inverter and mount it into a smaller enclosure. The preamp is the same as it would be in an amp...there just isn't a phase inverter or power tubes. The downside is there isn't a phase inverter or power tubes to get that additional phase inverter overdrive and power tube overdrive for that true '60's and '70's non-master-volume Marshall crunch.

The Class 5 still lacks the phase inverter, but at least as a full-size power tube. These 1 watts are more like those tube-equipped pedals and preamp, they are the preamp strapped onto micro power amp that consists of a small 12AU7 tube (usually used a driver tube in hi-fi's) and an output transformer. The preamp will be the dominant voice of the 1-watt 50 Anniversary models, the power amp will never deliver what it's larger predecessors could in terms of fat, thunderous poweramp crunch.

So, my suggestion is, go with the preamp that offers the most versatility...multiple gain levels, master Volume, etc. And for these amps, those start with the JCM1. But ultimately, small wattage tube amps can never deliver the tone of large tube amps. They have to be treated as their own thing.

This is what I was trying to say in my very inadequate little comment about EL34s... but without much of the important knowledge, and only about 10% of the intelligence!

Thank for this Wyatt!

bsman · January 27, 2012

This thread needs to be locked -- I'm getting Class 5 GAS.

Willyguitar · January 27, 2012

^^ Same here!... except that I think some of what Wyatt says in that post also applies to the Class 5. I owned one of the combos for a while but it rattled like hell and there was no way of putting it right, so it had to go back.

oates · January 27, 2012

^^ Same here!... except that I think some of what Wyatt says in that post also applies to the Class 5. I owned one of the combos for a while but it rattled like hell and there was no way of putting it right, so it had to go back.

I just got a Class 5 and there is no rattle here. I have a Vox AC15 (newer model) but it just doesn't get the dirty rocking tone of the class 5. The class 5 just rocks much harder than the AC15. I'm thinking of running through both cabs and blending for a new tone. I've also trield the dsl pedal, badass 78 pedal, box of rock pedal and none of them come close to the class 5. This is confusing b/c of the explanation of how these smaller amps have the same circuit as the pedals.

I would love to pick up a full size like the 2061x but its just not practical for me (as I mostly record). Plus its nearly a grand more.

I also feel like any gig that I play will have mic'd amps (to give the mix more control over the tone). That's always made more sense to me than cranking it so the tone is not balanced through the speaker.

Wyatt · January 27, 2012

If I were going for lower wattage Marshall tones, I would probably lean toward Fargen, but they run a lot more than a Class 5.

Or, these days, Ii would probably go from scratch. Taking a JCM800 front end and seeing what I could match it with.

steve_man · January 27, 2012

Why would you say they are overpriced?

Made in the UK Marshall for less than a grand.......Mesa can't say that

Sorry, but just because it's made in the UK doesn't make it worth $800-1000.... Plus, 1 watt for that kind of money is rather crazy...

Deadbeat Son · January 27, 2012

Sorry, but just because it's made in the UK doesn't make it worth $800-1000.... Plus, 1 watt for that kind of money is rather crazy...

Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. As you can see from this thread, there are plenty of people willing to pay this amount. Therefore, these amps are, in fact, worth it.

oates · January 27, 2012