Why would you want to play in a church group???

[Yer Blues]

Another positive would be getting out of the bar scene.  Personally, I've grown tired of it and don't really enjoy hanging out there 5-6 hours (includes set up/tear down) on a Friday or Saturday night until 2am.  Pretty much the only part of it I enjoy is the playing. 

I've also heard mix reviews about praise band leaders.  Some expect a lot, some expect nothing at all.  Not having expectations in line with the band leader can always cause problems... especially if there is no compensation.

[Pine Apple Slim]

 

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stormin1155 wrote:

 

 

First of all, this is not about religion.  This is about church as a venue for playing music.  I've been playing in a praise/worship group for the past four years, and not only have I had a blast doing it, it has helped me grow as a guitarist and musician.

 

 

 

If you don't want to have anything to do with church or religion, then what I'm about to say probably won't interest you.  But since 84% of the US population claims some religious affiliation it could apply to a lot of you.  So here are several reasons why you might want to consider playing in a church group.

 

 

 

1.  LOTS of opportunities to play -Your best way to improve as a guitarist and musician is to play with other people and in front of other people.  On any given weekend the number of churches having live music outnumbers all other types of venues by a huge margin.  Small churches in particular are always looking for musicians.  In addition to church services, our group also does occasional outreach gigs for youth groups, community events, and the like.  Some churches pay their musicians. Most don't.

For a while there, it was just about my only opportunity to play with other people.

 

 

 

2.  Opportunity to learn from and teach others - In most church groups the range of musicians can range from beginners to professional level.  In larger churches there is often a rotation of musicians, so you could have the opportunity to play with a lot of different musicians.  Some you can learn from, some can learn from you.  Most of the music isn't real difficult, so even those with modest levels of proficiency can play it.

I helped organize and start a P&W youth band. Im not a big fan of the genre, but the kids had talent. They just needed some organization. I put the band together and played lead guitar for about 6 months, then bowed out and let em run with it. They carried on admirably, played our church regularly and a lot of others for about 3 yrs until the key members went off to college.

 

 

 

3.  Appreciative audiences - Smaller churches in particular are appreciative and non-critical of musician's level of talent, so it can be a low-stress way of getting in front of an audience.  Where else could a hack player like me play to an audience who are all singing along, waving their arms, dancing in the isles, and on their knees weeping?

Its where I overcame my self concoiusness about singing and playing solo. Joined the choir, proved myself to the musical director, then got a solo spot about once a month. 

 

4.   Wide range of musical styles - Our group plays five or six songs each week, and they range from hard rock, to Christian "pop," to syrupy ballads, to gospel, to traditional hymns. You may not like all the music you play, but it is great experience to learn new styles.  For instance I don't like playing traditional hymns.  They aren't written for guitar, and are often in odd keys or unfamiliar modes.  So you learn.  Same with gospel.  Most of it is painfully simple, so you have to get creative to make it interesting.

Yep, putting the youth band together forced me to learn the P&W stuff. Not my cuppa, I prefer tho more old timey bluegrass gospel type stuff, but learning and playing different styles than you prefer is good experience. Learning some P&W allowed me to do the music on several weekend retreats, which I enjoyed immensely.  The last church I played in was Episcopal and I played upright with a clarinet and a guitarist. Got to work on learning to bow the upright. Those "high churchy" hymns were sure different than the stuff I heard growing up Baptist, lol.

 

 

 

5.   Good equipment - Many churches have professional level sound equipment and trained sound technicians.  I play in a very small church, yet our sound system is better than 90% of bars that have live music.  Larger churches have state-of-the-art sound systems and recording capabilities.

Some do, some don't. My experience was in smaller churches with less than optimal systems. Because of the youth band I started, the church forked out for some better equipment.

 

 

 

6.   It's FUN!

It can be, or not. It depends on the people and the congregation. Like any musical enterprise, egos and personalities can ruin it. It can turn into an unpaid job with big expectations and little respect. Or it can be a lot of work that you don't mind doing. I've experienced all three.

The last little group I was in was big fun musically, right up my alley. A fantastic piano player and a good lead singer, we were doing 3 & 4 part harmonies. Old Timey Gospel. But I got sick of listening to two bit country preachers ranting and raving about Obama, gays, etc. at almost every little church we played at. Seemed like I was hearing more Tea Party Republican stump speaches than the Good News. It grew very tiresome and I found myself getting angry and uptight instead of blessed so I gave that up.

 

 

 

 

 

So there you go...  Those of you who are playing in a church group, please chime in with your experience.

Right now, I'm not doing any church stuff. I have 2 secular bands I'm playing in and really can't devote myself to any church music. But I don't regret doing it and I probably will again someday.

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[wankdeplank]

 

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Pine Apple Slim wrote:

 

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stormin1155 wrote:

 

The last little group I was in was big fun musically, right up my alley. A fantastic piano player and a good lead singer, we were doing 3 & 4 part harmonies. Old Timey Gospel. But I got sick of listening to two bit country preachers ranting and raving about Obama, gays, etc. at almost every little church we played at. Seemed like I was hearing more Tea Party Republican stump speaches than the Good News. It grew very tiresome and I found myself getting angry and uptight instead of blessed so I gave that up.

 

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 See this is the part I don't get.  Why is it that the only churches that have this type of "Rockin Service" are part of the lunatic fringe Tea Party constituency?  I mean on the one hand it sounds like a more liberal take on the rather staid and stuffy traditional Church Service when in reality it's more like that KKK ceremony scene from "Oh Brother where art thou".  I just don't get the cross-over let alone the number of ex-hippie sellouts that have jumped on the bandwagon.  I have a friend that's into that rot - one minute he's poppin shrooms and running off to see the latest incarnation of the Dead and the next he's expounding on some right wing Tele-evangelist crap, slamming Obama Care and other "liberal" causes and ruing the departure of War-Hawks Bush and Cheney.  I'm probably better off with my Protestant based birth religion that's about as conservative as they come but at least they don't preach it at the pulpit.  Church and State baby, Church and State.  

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[kayd_mon]

@docjeffrey

 

The bible teaches in the new testament that chriatians are not to judge those who do not claim to be brothers, as that is god's job. Jesus taught this, as did the apostle paul in one of his many how-to passages. So rather than get upset at someone's tongue-in-cheek response that wasn't even offensive towards the faith (but rather joking towards modern conventions and ritual - the practiced religion that modern churches love to say they're not about), please turn your other cheek, be all things to all men, and do all your brothers in the faith a favor and make them appear to be the peaceful, loving, compassionate people that Jesus is said to have commanded of his followers. If I was reading this thread years ago, I would be reeling that another brother went and made christians look bad. Now, I just post this on behalf of all of those that are still in the faith. Respond in love, and people who disagree with you will be a lot slower to react with anger toward you and all your brothers and sisters in your faith.

 

Also, and more importantly, we can keep HCEG civil.

[kayd_mon]

@wankdeplank

 

Jerry Falwell and others politicized protestant christianity, infusing into the consciousness of many churches that you must be a republican - even better an extreme one - or else you're not really a christian. To be honest, it's not just rock and roll churches. My parents go to a church that thinks modern music in church is sinful, and they are militant tea partiers. In my experience, it was in the rock and roll churches that you could at least find a democrat or two (though they were not vocal about it).

[billybilly]

Satan and God do not exist, they are made up fictional characters to represent the good and bad in all of us.  Be brave, stand alone for the good of humankind without having to be led by characters in an old story book.

[Elias Graves]

Well, the IRS has all you filthy Christians names now. Enjoy your audits.

[Convert]

 

Reaons for playing in a church band?

 

Reserved seat for the Christmas Eve service!

[Elias Graves]

How about parking? You get reserved parking?

[wankdeplank]

 

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kayd_mon wrote:

 

@wankdeplank

 

 

 

Jerry Falwell and others politicized protestant christianity, infusing into the consciousness of many churches that you must be a republican - even better an extreme one - or else you're not really a christian. To be honest, it's not just rock and roll churches. My parents go to a church that thinks modern music in church is sinful, and they are militant tea partiers. In my experience, it was in the rock and roll churches that you could at least find a democrat or two (though they were not vocal about it).

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Yeah I hear ya bro!!!!  My mom plays church organ for a congregation that's got to be 99.5% ultra-conservative Republican while my Dad sits at home watching Meet the Press, or something from MSNBC that he's recorded.  He won't go to service anymore and according to mom antagonizes church members when they come around but he defends the teachings of his faith.  I think it's the interpretation that he has the most trouble with, as do I on many occasions. 

Thx for straightening me out on the rock and roll churches (I know I'm very guilty of over-generalizing to make a point).  Maybe there's still a place for me after all.

 

Well I wouldn't classify these little rural churches as "Rockin". More like your traditional 50-100 member rural Baptist affairs. Mostly gray haired old ladies and a few of their redneck offspring at the Sunday night service. Loud "wake em up" fire and brimstone style preachin mixed with the latest Fox News talking points. Staid old piano/organ player doing the hymns, karoke singing for the "specials". The usual guest group would be 4 southern gospel singers and canned backing tracks. We were a throwback really, stuff they didn't normally get. A rockin pianist who could sight read with the best of em but didn' have to. Me slappin an upright and singing bass or baritone. Acoustic rhythm guitar. Sorta bluegrass gospel with honky tonk piano. I really enjoyed the music and the folks liked it to. I just couldn't get along with them too good. Just got really tired of the backwater southern redneck politics that always seemed to come along with it.

I don't go in for the loud Rock Band P&W services either, or preachers trying too hard to be "happening" or "relavent". Those places are a different affair than what I was talking about. Usually they have a more diverse congregation.  Playing in the band can be fun but, I really don't much care to be in the congregation. 

I prefer my worship more on the mellow and liturgical side.

 

I really appreciate your well-reasoned point of view as well as your candor.  You're a good writer and paint an interesting picture without oversimplifying it.  I'm sorry if I took your words out of context to tell my little tale.  The picture you paint is actually rather attractive to me - minus the two-bit, backwater preachers.  Kind of a Sam Rockwell meets Sam Kinison kind of thing I guess.  Anyways I love Old Timey music, and thx for filling in the blanks.  

[kayd_mon]

Ah, interpretation of faith. And there you have the root of countless conflicts, both small and large.

[D Carroll]

Wait, do you guys get juice and crackers first?

[Elias Graves]

Don't worry. The IRS will have them all audited out of existence in a couple of years.

[stormin1155]

OP here again.... Well, maybe I was wrong.  I thought we could have a discussion about playing music in church without it becoming a debate about religion.  Seems like that is harder to do than I thought.  Most of this third page has slipped into discussing religion.  Don't get me wrong.  As a Christian, I appreciate what you are saying, and would love to sit down with you guys and talk.  But I was hoping to stay away from that here because that isn't the purpose of this forum, and as we've seen, religion is a hot button that can bring out some not so nice behaviors in otherwise very nice people..

 

[kayd_mon]

@stormin1155

 

Well I apologize for contributing to the debates in the thread. I did try to join in and stay on topic, but I didn't. I'll bow out of this one...

[stormin1155]

No apology needed kayd. I really appreciate your input.  Just trying to keep the thread focused.....

[Grant Harding]

There's no way to have a discussion about religious music without discussing religion.

 

If I started a thread about atheist musicians it's a religious thread, right?

[Grant Harding]

I'm going to start a soccer team. Soccer skill is secondary for people wanting to be on the team. The main prerequisite is a deep unquestioning belief in astrology.

[mistersully]

the reason i wouldn't is because i simply can't stand most of today's praise and worship music

 

if it was a cool gospel band, count me in

[billybilly]

 

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koiwoi wrote:

 

There's no way to have a discussion about religious music without discussing religion.

 

 

 

If I started a thread about atheist musicians it's a religious thread, right?

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Quite right.

 

On atheism... Being an atheist is as foolish as being a christian.  Nobody knows the answer to whether God exists or not.  

[Grant Harding]

I'm agnostic as well, if you need to put a label on my non-beliefs.

 

I agree that we'll never know "why" the cosmos as we understand it came into being or ultimately what the whole thing looks like. Our universe could be a speck of dust on a rock on a planet in a universe in another dimension. I'm happy with the answer "we'll never know, but let's keep learning" instead of imagined answers that always seem to end with some form of life after death if you obey.

[Pine Apple Slim]

I say this as a believer :

Beware of anybody who claims no doubt. Regardless of what they claim to believe or not believe. Give em a wide berth. That means they are crazy at best, dangerous at the worst.

[docjeffrey]

Like I--and many others--have said before, every time the topic of playing in a worship band comes up, it takes about ten minutes before someone hurls insults at Christians. "I'm a pro because I play a bar gig on Saturday night, you're an amateur because you play a church gig on Sunday morning."

"But I'm playing for God who is more important than the drunks in your bar." 

But the Saturday night pro and the Sunday morning amateur have a lot more in common than either of them want to admit. First, there are plenty of great bands both on Saturday night and Sunday morning. Second, there are plenty of average and mediocre bands in both categories.

Those of us who hang out on Harmony Central are probably passionate about our gear and our tone--so we have that in common. Most of us have had good and bad experiences with gear, with bandmates, with sound operators etc. We've probably all had to play songs with which we were not thrilled. We've probably all had cringe worthy moments on stage. But most importantly, we've all been told to turn down our guitars at least once (in my case, at least 100 times).

But rather than get into this discussion, a few individuals feel they have license to discredit Christian musicians because of their beliefs and accuse them of all sorts of archaic and stale stereotypes. 

The rest of the discussion is all very predictable. But I want everyone to know that I mean no harm nor ill will toward anyone who disagrees with my perspective. Like many of you, I get tired of reading and hearing the same false notions of Christians and Christianity over and over, on the web, the radio, on TV shows and in newspapers. This constant drone is rarely challenged, and when it is, the appeasers are right there to put the offender in his or her place. OK, so I've been put in my place. I accept that and I will move on. But not before posting my worship band rig! I'll put it in my next post to signify a fresh start.

 

[PrawnHeed]

Re: Why would you want to play in a church group???

 

I don't

[stormin1155]

Hey!  I like seeing your rigs!  I'd post mine, but it's pretty boring.. I run through a Fender Mustang Floor directly into the PA.  I like having my own amp, but we run direct to keep stage volume down.  I use a variety of guitars, my favorites being my Les Paul, Hamer Echotone, and my old strat... about 75% electric, some acoustic, and occasionaly an old lap steel.

Our band consists of 3-4 singers, keyboards, two guitars (about half the time the other guy isn't there), two drummer/percussionists, and bass.  Our lead singer is very good, the others pretty good; our keyboard player can sight read anything as well as improvise and has a good grasp on music theory; our main drummer is a 30+ year veteran playing semi-professionally; the other drummer is his son who has a master's degree, working on his PhD in music education; the other guitarist is a kid who has lots to learn, but in many respects is better than me, he is also a pretty good drummer; the bass player is a novice, really no formal training, but has good rhythm and knows how to follow the kick drum; then there is me... been playing for 40 years, but still very much a hack.

Here is a youtube we recorded at one of the services.  Very poor mix.... can't hear the keyboard or bass at all, and I was the only guitar player that day.