Members ElectricEye Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Originally Posted by meandi Then you should do it! You only live once. Practical skills are a valuable thing...if you don't you'll always wonder, what if. When the timing is better. I live in CT and he's out in LA. Got lots of things going on i life (two very young kids, etc) and the wife is already upset with me doing things by myself instead of "us." Finances are also an issue right now due to unpaid maternity leave and a few piling medical bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Originally Posted by newbuilder I have to say meandi, that this thread lets me know how much I don't know and have to learn in building and restoring. You are awsome, thanks for all of the detailed progress. That's a much appreciated compliment, thank you! I've been doing this going on 10 years now...during that time, I've read everything that I could find to further educate myself in the craft. I've also invested $s in videos/dvds to see how some things are best done...a picture is truly worth a thousand words. And, practice does make better. Originally Posted by ElectricEye When the timing is better. I live in CT and he's out in LA. Got lots of things going on i life (two very young kids, etc) and the wife is already upset with me doing things by myself instead of "us." Finances are also an issue right now due to unpaid maternity leave and a few piling medical bills. Same advice that I gave newbuilder, above. There are many web sites that have much build/repair information, usually with pictures for free. You tube has a ton of good videos related to about anything you want to know, once again free. Get a CHEAP guitar to start on, because chances are good that you will make mistakes in the beginning & start with the simple stuff...evaluation, truss rod adjust, cutting a nut ect. First guitar I worked on was a $5 Cort strat clone out of a yard sale. The worse condition it's in, the more valid things you will have to study about & practice on. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hey atrox, wanted to ask about the comment regarding not being a fan of Dan Erlewine. I was wondering if you could expound upon the idea a little? I have his set-up book ("How to Make Your Guitar Play Great" I believe it's called) and I do feel like the way it's written is a bit "scatter-brained", or at least not as methodical as I'd like, but I've never really heard anyone have anything but praise for his repair abilities. Just wondering if any issues you might have pertained to his technical ability or something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 I removed the clamp from the neck a few minutes ago & checked the finger board with the straight edge.It reads straight...however there are no strings on the guitar.Without strings it needs to hold slight a backbow, as discussed previously.The procedure does seem to be working, however.I put it back in the clamp & pulled it just a bit further than before.I'll check it again later this evening...perhaps put a little heat on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Originally Posted by meandi I removed the clamp from the neck a few minutes ago & checked the finger board with the straight edge. It reads straight...however there are no strings on the guitar. Without strings it needs to hold slight a backbow, as discussed previously. The procedure does seem to be working, however. I put it back in the clamp & pulled it just a bit further than before. I'll check it again later this evening...perhaps put a little heat on it. Man, I sure hope it comes back without the need for heat...or at least not enough heat to disturb the fingerboard or neck lam glue joints! How long has it been clamped up now, a day or two? Is that really enough time for the neck to hold a new "set"? I read the whole thread at one sitting so i'm kinda fuzzy on the timeline...sorry if I'm misunderstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atrox Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hey atrox, wanted to ask about the comment regarding not being a fan of Dan Erlewine. I was wondering if you could expound upon the idea a little? I have his set-up book ("How to Make Your Guitar Play Great" I believe it's called) and I do feel like the way it's written is a bit "scatter-brained", or at least not as methodical as I'd like, but I've never really heard anyone have anything but praise for his repair abilities. Just wondering if any issues you might have pertained to his technical ability or something else. The man knows a lot. He actually a brilliant guitar tech in practice. That book has some good things in it, but I feel his theories he puts out as facts are sometimes wrong or misleading. He also tends to relate to others that his way is the "be all, end all" way of doing things. While I have certainly watched his vids and read his books for insight, and I have adopted some of techniques (though often with tweaks), I hardly think he does much of anything in an efficient manner. This leads to another issue I have with him... Erlewine is in cahoots with StewMac. Many of his techniques he shows and writes about involve unneeded and sometimes ridiculously expensive "tools". He doesn't offer explanations of how to do things without these tools (though there are always many alternatives), therefor making many newbies believe they need these tools. Tools you can only buy at StewMac. Tools no one else sells for a reason... because you don't need them. Tools like his neck jig, his $200+ shop stand (oye!), 6000 different files for 6000 different things, teflon fret dams (WTF!!), etc. are all usable and have a limited purpose, but you just don't need them and they are, IMO, inefficient and sometime ineffective. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE StewMac. Though pricey, they have great customer service, fast shipping and lot's of useful things. Basically, I have been doing this for a while. I know for a fact that none of these expensive things he is selling is needed to get anything done in an efficient manner. Like I said, StewMac has tons of great products beyond all of that. Sorry for the rant. Like I said, the guy knows his stuff, I just take issue with certain aspects of his instructions and business practices. I have a few other books that I have learned from along with Erlewine's book. I have them at home. I'll get some names and author's listed in here soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atrox Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 ...perhaps put a little heat on it. I was just going to say that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axegrinder Posted May 28, 2009 Members Share Posted May 28, 2009 That's a great post Atrox. ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted May 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2009 The man knows a lot. He actually a brilliant guitar tech in practice. That book has some good things in it, but I feel his theories he puts out as facts are sometimes wrong or misleading. He also tends to relate to others that his way is the "be all, end all" way of doing things. This is my biggest problem with him, and when you don't do things the Erlewine way people think you're a muppet, well 'specially Murkans. In general he's pretty good, but he is BY NO MEANS the Ultimate Tech that people think he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Man, I sure hope it comes back without the need for heat...or at least not enough heat to disturb the fingerboard or neck lam glue joints! How long has it been clamped up now, a day or two? Is that really enough time for the neck to hold a new "set"? I read the whole thread at one sitting so i'm kinda fuzzy on the timeline...sorry if I'm misunderstanding! It had been in the clamping fixture 1 1/2 days when I checked it earlier. I have surface thermometers that I use to monitor heat when I do something like that...definately not enough heat to damage the laminates in the neck. Checked it again this evening...not quite there but making progress...may not need heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 I have to say meandi, that this thread lets me know how much I don't know and have to learn in building and restoring. You are awsome, thanks for all of the detailed progress. Yeah, Meandi is THE MAN!!! If you really want to find out how much you dont know, check out some of Meandi's other build and repair threads!!!!:eek::love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 atrox: thanks for that candid post and I completely agree with you. It's bad enough that if a hopeful luthier-to-be were to look at a StewMac catalog, he might very well decide that he can't afford to go into the business! I'd certainly appreciate a short list of books/resources on the subject that you consider simpler, better written and/or less biased toward the use of all the unecessary specialy tools. Have you ever considered writing one yourself? I have quite a few books here, and I'm honestly not thrilled with any of them. Maybe I'm just dense! meandi: man, it sounds like you are completely on top of this stuff. You should write a book as well! I'd buy a copy for sure.What kind of glue was Gibson using in '81 for the neck lams and fingerboard? Was it still hide glue? It'd be nice to have an idea of how hot I could go if I ever need to do a similar operation on one of my LPs from that era. Can't wait to see pix when you're further into this job. Thanks so much for documenting this for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowbrow Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 What kind of glue was Gibson using in '81 for the neck lams and fingerboard? Was it still hide glue? I was wondering this as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 atrox: thanks for that candid post and I completely agree with you. It's bad enough that if a hopeful luthier-to-be were to look at a StewMac catalog, he might very well decide that he can't afford to go into the business! I'd certainly appreciate a short list of books/resources on the subject that you consider simpler, better written and/or less biased toward the use of all the unecessary specialy tools. Have you ever considered writing one yourself? I have quite a few books here, and I'm honestly not thrilled with any of them. Maybe I'm just dense! meandi: man, it sounds like you are completely on top of this stuff. You should write a book as well! I'd buy a copy for sure. What kind of glue was Gibson using in '81 for the neck lams and fingerboard? Was it still hide glue? It'd be nice to have an idea of how hot I could go if I ever need to do a similar operation on one of my LPs from that era. Can't wait to see pix when you're further into this job. Thanks so much for documenting this for us! I wouldn't say I'm completely on top of it.I have a fairly large tech library consisting of books, vcr tapes (give you an idea how long I've been doing this) & dvds that I consult on a regular basis.I'm not ready to write the book...I'm still studying it.Good question, I'm not sure when Gibson went from hide glue to resin glue...maby someone here knows...I'll check & see if I can find out, as well._________________Took it out of the clamps earlier & it was in a slight backbow, with the aid of the truss rod, yes.So I strung it up & tuned it to pitch, to see how it holds against the strings.Here it is sitting on a stand next to my trusty parts-o-caster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axegrinder Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Good news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Good news! Holding my breath & crossing my fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sxyryan Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Holding my breath & crossing my fingers.While we are waiting, what are your plans for fixing the holes in the headstock?Are you going to refinish and put a new Gibson logo (somehow?) Or fill the holes and do some kind of luthier color matching magic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axegrinder Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 While we are waiting, what are your plans for fixing the holes in the headstock? Are you going to refinish and put a new Gibson logo (somehow?) Or fill the holes and do some kind of luthier color matching magic ? I didn't catch it in the pics. Is it just the two fang holes for the locking nut doohickey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sxyryan Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 I didn't catch it in the pics. Is it just the two fang holes for the locking nut doohickey? That's what im talking about, but there are 4. It also might be the light (and the fact that I am partially colorblind) but the headstock color looks a little funky to me. Just curious what the procedure would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 I didn't catch it in the pics. Is it just the two fang holes for the locking nut doohickey?Yes the holes will be repaired.Headstock is pretty gnarley & needs to be stripped & refinished.Otherwise it's not going to be up to par with the rest of the guitar.As far as the logo is concerned, I'm looking for something like this...http://reading.gumtree.com/reading/47/33834247.html...It's my understanding that this site is the European equivelant of craigs list.Trying to find something similar for sale here in the states...no luck yet, but have several inquiries out.You can see how rough & ragged it is around the Gibson logo + the checking in the finish around it.P/S., does Gibson sell headstock overlays for valid restoration purposes...anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axegrinder Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Is there any chance that respraying nitro would "melt away" the checking. Clearly I don't know, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Is there any chance that respraying nitro would "melt away" the checking. Clearly I don't know, just curious.We'd just end up with a mess that would need to be stripped.Might as well do the strip up front & save my materials.Plus, it would do nothing to correct the ragged edges around the Gibson script.I've been on GreatDanes guitar page link in his sig & seen some of his stuff.I think his expectations are higher than that...I know mine are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axegrinder Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 We'd just end up with a mess that would need to be stripped. Might as well do the strip up front & save my materials. Plus, it would do nothing to correct the ragged edges around the Gibson script. I've been on GreatDanes guitar page link in his sig & seen some of his stuff. I think his expectations are higher than that...I know mine are! Oh no kidding. Dane's collection just slays. In some way, I expect this one to stand out from the rest...no pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 ...no pressure. Thanks a lot!I expect it to be on par with his best, quality wise...finish & playability.I expect that it will stand out from the rest due to it's uniqueness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members itieu Posted May 29, 2009 Members Share Posted May 29, 2009 Got it from a reliable source. Gibson hasnt used hide glue in a very very long time. 80's was def wood glue. Dont know the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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