Members Zamfir Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by lug varmint? Back to Caddyshack school for you........http://www.carlspackler.com/sounds/135.wav Ah! Yes! "I have to think like an animal..." I used to love that one. Can't believe I forgot it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by Zamfir Ah! Yes! "I have to think like an animal..." I used to love that one. Can't believe I forgot it... used to? CADDY SHACK IS THE SINGLE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN CINEMA IN THIS OR ANY OTHER MILLENIA! IT IS EVEN POSSIBALY MANKIND'S GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT, PERIOD!..USED TO?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by B-Bottom [ That is quite an assumption to say that the reason people don't give is because of these so called "myths". It's just as easy to turn your statement around and say that those who do give do not think about just where the money is going. Instead they are just giving it away out of the kindness of their heart. Your logic doesn't follow. The fact that many Western givers don't check up on organizations, does not in any way contradict the point that many relief organizations are good and relatively efficient at what they do. Telling Westerners explicitly or implicitly that *none* of their money does any good, is flat wrong on the facts and IMO, morally as well. http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html Interesting interview/arguments, but I don't know that the large body of political econ research/literature for Africa supports his views as an empirical matter. Maybe it does? But: African aid has nothing to do with claims of tsunami aid going to terrorists, and I don't see data here on how African aid is NOT buying the U.S. improvement in some sectors of African public opinion. http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1703452005 There is nothing new here. Muslims have long had their own charities, and terrorists have long had their fronts posing as charities. That is a LONG way away from demonstrating that Western money is flowing into Muslim charities and then into the hands of warlords. As opposed to dozens of charities like the Red Cross and any number of non-Muslim-affiliated save-the-children/fight-hunger groups. Edit: Nor does it demonstrate that even the majority of Western aid went to terrorists or warlords rather than tsunami victims. If they hate us and want to kill us then yes. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I'm sorry, but that's one hell of an "us/them" generalization. Who are "they?" An entire country or countries? So that if *some* people in country X hate us, that's a sufficient excuse to fail to even consider the existential needs of the sick and starving? So let me get this straight because maybe I'm a bit confused. What you are saying is that it is ok for us to send billions of dollars to a country that preaches hate and raises their childeren to hate us? And by doing so, like we've been doing for all these years suddenly we'll change the way they feel about us? Are you new here? I mean I would think by now that even a semi-rational person sees the folly in this. First off, I did not say that we should send billions of dollars to countries that hate us, because we typically are *much* less likely to do so when we don't get along with *governments* as a political matter, and to work through third party NGOs when there is a need for aid that can be delivered. Second, I get the sense you may be confusing what religious schools and nationalist groups do in some countries, with what official state policy and behavior is. Third, you appear to pay no attention to the facts I raised in the earlier post, so let me repeat the findings: our aid bought a {censored}load of improved image for the U.S. in some tsunami afflicted countries. You cannot dispute that it can and does work on that criteria, above and beyond the trivial matter of, say, saving lives. Moreover, it forced young people in places like Indonesia to rethink their image of the US. That makes them considerably LESS likely to join or support terrorist organizations. Any counter-terrorism expert will explain that to you. Considering what a tiny chunk U.S. government aid alone has historically been, relative to the overall foreign policy budget (less than 1%, btw!), it's incredibly damn cheap and gets the results I just mentioned. What's folly is watching hatred for the US rise worldwide, and doing absolutely nothing about it when you can do so, so cheaply. What do you think generated those planes that hit the Trade Center towers? Even Bush understands this to some degree. Fourth, with your gratuitous "new here?" dig, I've been here much longer than you. Not that it matters. One US hater....huh. Do you really think that that guy designed and printed that tshirt up himself? Bin Laden is seen as George Washington to these people. I think a guy with a shop, some money, fabric, and a few machines can make a {censored}load of t-shirts for local radicals (edit: when he's not making non-political t-shirts for tourists). But. One guy wearing one t-shirt in the crowd in a picture with a tight frame, cannot possibly serve as a generalization for the balance of public opinion in the country, especially in the surveys I mentioned in the previous post that showed a *huge* shift in public opinion. If you don't understand that, and still insist on making generalizations that are simply unsupported, your grasp of methods and valid use of data is weak at best. Heck, you don't even know what it is about Osama bin Laden that one guy with the t-shirt finds appealing. Is it bin Laden's anti-Americanism, or bin Laden's stature as a religious figure, or bin Laden's contributions to other Muslim groups? Is it bin Laden's goals? Does he agree with all of bin Laden's methods? Does the t-shirt guy have access, and money to get access, to other information beyond what he may be getting from his local cleric? Etc. Forget trying to generalize whatever the reason is, to all of Indonesia or any other country. The data just won't support that implicit claim. Edit: Btw, what about all the *other* people in that picture who *aren't* wearing bin Laden t-shirts? Why don't they count as much in your cognitive perceptions of that picture? As far as the hungry man comment, I don't care what he thinks. Once he gets the sustinance which we provide do you really think he will really think that America is the greatest? Come on. Amazing. Are you aware of the implicit inhumanity behind that attitude? "I'll just *assume* he hates us, so let him starve"??? Why not simply do the work of asking him before and after we feed him? You might well find a large number of Indonesians who actually do appreciate us much more than ever, regardless of what they think of the rest of our foreign policy. Ignore the friends you have abroad in other countries, and you will get {censored}ed all the faster. Given that I live here, too, I'd rather not be in the path of destruction because I was too short-sighted to do what could reasonably and cheaply be done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by lug used to? CADDY SHACK IS THE SINGLE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN CINEMA IN THIS OR ANY OTHER MILLENIA! IT IS EVEN POSSIBALY MANKIND'S GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT, PERIOD!..USED TO?!?!?!? I haven't seen it in around 15 years... Btw...my father...never liked you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by Zamfir I haven't seen it in around 15 years... Btw...my father...never liked you. You've somewhat redeemed yourself with that fine quote. http://www.carlspackler.com/sounds/134.wav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by lug used to? CADDY SHACK IS THE SINGLE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN CINEMA IN THIS OR ANY OTHER MILLENIA! IT IS EVEN POSSIBALY MANKIND'S GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT, PERIOD!..USED TO?!?!?!? *cough*bluesbrothers*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by s4001 *cough*bluesbrothers*cough* *cough*IFyoudidn'townaRicI'dKICKyoustraightinthejimmynotthatBluesBrotherswasnotagreatmovie,butit'snoCaddyshack*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Moody Johnny Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Canada did offer to help, but..... http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/235829/261 (This was on another thread, so you've probably seen it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members My bass in your face Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom What's the reaction to this around the world? I haven't really seen alot reported but am relying on the BBC and various internet sources. Is the international community donating to this cause as the US consistently does in times like this? It seems the US gets dumped on for never doing enough internationally, yet I'm disheartened when I don't read about the world reciprocating during our time of need. OHOHOH! Don't get me started! I might get banned... I'm very sorry about what happened, trully, but please... As somebody from a country who donated 6 times as much per person as an American person for the Tsunami of December 2004, I just don't want to go there, okay?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kilmister Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 NEW STUFF FROM THE AP: 04:45 PM CDT on Thursday, September 1, 2005 Barry Schweid / Associated Press WASHINGTON -- In a dramatic turnabout, the United States is now on the receiving end of help from around the world as some two dozen countries offer post-hurricane assistance. Venezuela, a target of frequent criticism by the Bush administration, offered humanitarian aid and fuel. Venezuela's Citgo Petroleum Corp. pledged a $1 million donation for hurricane aid. The United Nations informed U.S. Ambassador John R. Bolton it was prepared to support the relief effort "in any way possible." Under Secretary-General Jan Egeland said his office had offered the services of the U.N.'s disaster assistance and coordination teams to the U.S. Agency for International Development. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sent a letter to President Bush offering hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians and other experts in trauma, natural disasters and public health. "We also offer field hospitals, medical kits and equipment for temporary housing, reinforcement for hospitals, or any assistance that you may require," Sharon wrote. He said the teams and equipment could be ready in 24 hours. With offers from the four corners of the globe pouring in, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Thursday. However, in Moscow, a Russian official said the U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency had rejected a Russian offer to dispatch rescue teams and other aid. On Tuesday, President Vladimir Putin sent condolences to Bush and said Russia was prepared to help if asked. Boats, aircraft, tents, blankets, generators, cash assistance and medical teams have been offered to the U.S. government in Washington or in embassies overseas. Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States, the spokesman said. Still, Bush told ABC-TV: "I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it." "You know," he said, "we would love help, but we're going to take care of our own business as well, and there's no doubt in my mind we'll succeed. And there's no doubt in my mind, as I sit here talking to you, that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city." Historically, the United States provides assistance to other countries experiencing earthquakes, floods and other disasters. Germany, which was rebuilt after World War II largely by the U.S. Marshall Plan, offered its help in a telephone call to Rice. "The German Government is prepared to do all that is humanly possible," the German embassy said. In his call, German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer assured Rice of Germany's solidarity with its American friends in a difficult time, the embassy said. Israeli Ambassador Daniel Ayalon called Wednesday at the State Department to offer condolences and assistance. Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid, about $2.2 billion a year. "The hearts and prayers of Israel's people are with the people of the United States and the many millions who are suffering in the regional devastation resulting from hurricane Katrina," the Israeli embassy said in a statement. (Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members My bass in your face Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Originally posted by kilmister Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States, the spokesman said. You see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 2, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 I stand ready to be proven wrong. And hope to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 USA is a biiig country with a looot of money, but I guess this is a humbling experience in that even the mightiest, richest nation in the world needs help when the full force of nature is unleashed. Good to see all those nations helping out, even small countries like Greece. Cyprus isnt anywhere though... the bastards Or Andorra for that matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gaui Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 Iceland offered financial help along with special earthquake rescue unit but it was politly passed by the us government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 Originally posted by Gaui Iceland offered financial help along with special earthquake rescue unit but it was politly passed by the us government. Send them out here, we'll be glad to have 'em sometime before long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 Originally posted by lug Plus they usually aren't as good looking as we are. If by "good looking" you mean "disgustingly fat" then you're absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.