I need new instrument cables.

[Kindness]

Don't ask me what my cables sound like.

Let me help you: punchy and authoritative lows, detailed midrange clarity and smooth, even, airy highs. Right?



Thanks for posting and thanks for participating.

[LavaMan]

Let me help you: punchy and authoritative lows, detailed midrange clarity and smooth, even, airy highs. Right? Thanks for posting and thanks for participating.

He sells Canare GS-6, Mogami 2524 as well as Zaolla that is made by them for instrument cables. Search HC for any of these and you will find forum members that have described how these cables sound...

Most folks who have tried the Mogami 2524 (same cable sold as "Mogami Gold" at GC and elsehwere) and the Canare GS-6 who have commented to me or posted on forums, prefer the Mogami 2524, which has significantly lower capacitance than the GS-6. Both cables are made in Japan, and in the cable industry are what is considered "commodity" cables, mass produced in millions of feet per year and pretty common place in a lot of studios because of their good bang-for-buck.

[bayoucables]

I don't hear any difference between the Canare GS-6 and the Mogami. What I like about the Canare is that it's more flexible and comes in colors. The Canare GS-6 really holds up to abuse well. I played a Sunday morning "blues brunch" gig at a local restaurant for over two years. Due to limited room, we had to set up the amps in front of us. The leader liked to close his eyes and rock back and forth when he got into a slow blues. He always wore cowboy boots and weighs over 250 lbs. He stomped my cable no less than a few hundred times on the oak floor at that gig. I used the same blue Canare GS-6 cable every Sunday. That cable is in my music room now. My guitar player uses it every Monday night at practice. Still works well.

[T. Alan Smith]

I got an email from Jeff about this. I'm sending a cable. Don't ask me what my cables sound like. What I will say is that they don't break. No cable sounds good when it stops working, which is what got me into making cables. What I sell are cables that last and are custom made by hand in the exact lengths you need. For a reference, I'm a bass player. I play an Ergo EUB5, no effects, a 15 foot cable into a Peavey T.B. Raxx tube preamp, into a Crown xti2000 with an Avatar 410NEO cabinet. Pretty low tech. There are live recordings of my band on our website, all tracks close mic'ed with an SM57 into CubaseSX, no eq on the bass tracks: http://root61.com Thanks.

Thanks for participating, and I highly respect your frankness in the matter.

[Thunderbroom]

Thanks Butch for being part of this. I just sent you my info.

[Thunderbroom]

This just in:

Mark (from Audiopile) is in. Here's what he's sending:

1) 1 ea. 15ft. EWI GBAC 1/4" TS x 1/4" TS instrument cable.
2) 1 ea. 15ft. EWI PMSA 1/4" TS x 1/4" TS speaker cable.
3) 1 ea. 15ft. EWI NL4-13ga. Speaker cable.

I've asked him to send an 18" speaker cable (so that it can be compared to the 18" Cardas Crosslink speaker cable that LavaMan) instead of a 15 footer if he wants to send a speaker cable. I realize we're not focusing on speaker cables, but if we get a couple...why not?

[jmb374]

Chicago folks,

Thanks in advance for doing this. It sounds like a lot o fun. I'm in need of a new cable and have always been a fan of cheap ones (
Thanks to the cable companies for stepping up to the plate as well:thu:

[Thunderbroom]

I'll start another thread once Thunderbroom gets the cables, but any preliminary ideas on dates? Sept 15 or 16?

 

 

Either will work for me as of now though I prefer Saturday since I tend to spend all day and part of the night grading papers on Sunday.

[T. Alan Smith]

This just in: Mark (from Audiopile) is in. Here's what he's sending: 1) 1 ea. 15ft. EWI GBAC 1/4" TS x 1/4" TS instrument cable. 2) 1 ea. 15ft. EWI PMSA 1/4" TS x 1/4" TS speaker cable. 3) 1 ea. 15ft. EWI NL4-13ga. Speaker cable. I've asked him to send an 18" speaker cable (so that it can be compared to the 18" Cardas Crosslink speaker cable that LavaMan) instead of a 15 footer if he wants to send a speaker cable. I realize we're not focusing on speaker cables, but if we get a couple...why not?

Yeah, I'm remotely interested in speaker cable. I've got a nice Monster now, but if I can hear a difference, I'll buy a matched set when I get my 2nd Bergie cab.

[catphish]

Yeah, I'm remotely interested in speaker cable.

 

 

Again, I'd really like to also AB 1/4" vs bannana vs Speakon. Does anyone have an amp with all three connections? Or at least two (speakon is the one I'm most interested in targeting against 1/4)

 

I assume the two speaker cables we're getting are all 1/4"?

[T. Alan Smith]

Again, I'd really like to also AB 1/4" vs bannana vs Speakon. Does anyone have an amp with all three connections? Or at least two (speakon is the one I'm most interested in targeting against 1/4) I assume the two speaker cables we're getting are all 1/4"?

 

 

I've only got 1/4" & Speakon.

[Kindness]

Again, I'd really like to also AB 1/4" vs bannana vs Speakon. Does anyone have an amp with all three connections? Or at least two (speakon is the one I'm most interested in targeting against 1/4) I assume the two speaker cables we're getting are all 1/4"?

 

 

My cabinets have all three. I use the 1/4" and the Speakons depending on the amp. I prefer the Speakons because they lock. FWIW, every rational discussion I've ever heard about speaker cables has been safety related, not sound quality related.

[Gregidon]

goes in one direction which can be seen under a microscope. 2. The concept is to send the signal in the same direction as the grains are going. 3. Also, the theory is that by plugging your cable in the same direction every time the signal finds the most efficient path. 4. With a very few speaker cables, but many dual or quad conductor instrument cables, the theory is that by not soldering the shield in at the source end (instrument for instrument and amp for speaker) any excessive AC line noise or other types of noise will be dissipated in the shield - thus you have a quieter cable. This "lifting the shield" is and has been common place in studios for many, many years.

 

 

You realize that both the signal sent from a pickup and the signal from an amplifier are AC! That is that they are bi-directional. The pickup generates both positive and negative voltages. Current flows both toward the load and toward the source. Come on, lets level with each other here. Cable directionality is crap.

[LavaMan]

You realize that the formula for a low pass filter is fc = 1/(Pi*R*C). (this is admittedly simplifying a little, but it's good enough for the illustration) With 50k ohm pickups and a cable that is 10ft with 100pF / ft the cutoff frequency is 31kHz. That's outside the range of human hearing. 100pF/ft is pretty damn high. Using this formula we can see that it would take a cable 16 ft cable at 100pF/ft with a 50k ohm pickup to get a 3dB drop at 20kHz. Take away message. If you are using a passive bass with a 15ft really crappy cable you may notice a barely perceptible increase of the highest frequencies you can hear. Is this going to improve the dynamic range of your bass? No. Is this going to improve how well the eq on your amp works? No, why would it? Is this going to let you hear your bass like you've never heard it before? I seriously doubt it. You realize that both the signal sent from a pickup and the signal from an amplifier are AC! That is that they are bi-directional. The pickup generates both positive and negative voltages. Current flows both toward the load and toward the source. Come on, lets level with each other here. Cable directionality is crap.

 

 

Have you done any A/B tests of your own with mulitple cables of varying brands? It does not seem so. Oh, BTW it is AC that cycles in one direction - it's a cycle - send/return, send/return and so on - it starts with the send...AC is directional it flows from send to return...

 

I wish you could have been there at the Warrior Guitars booth last year at the Carolina Guitar Show (they have absolutely beautiful basses), when I brought by a van den Hul cable and, while one of the workers was playing through cheap coax we changed cables - and you could have seen his jaw drop...the difference is immediate and audible...

[Roguetitan]

Have you done any A/B tests of your own with mulitple cables of varying brands? It does not seem so. Oh, BTW it is AC that cycles in one direction - it's a cycle - send/return, send/return and so on - it starts with the send...AC is directional it flows from send to return... I wish you could have been there at the Warrior Guitars booth last year at the Carolina Guitar Show (they have absolutely beautiful basses), when I brought by a van den Hul cable and, while one of the workers was playing through cheap coax we changed cables - and you could have seen his jaw drop...the difference is immediate and audible...

 

 

that was me

and yes you could tell the difference.

[LavaMan]

that was me and yes you could tell the difference.

 

 

 

Wow...what a coincidence...thanks for the support!

[Gregidon]

... ... I wish you could have been there at the Warrior Guitars booth last year at the Carolina Guitar Show (they have absolutely beautiful basses), when I brought by a van den cable and, while one of the workers was playing through cheap coax we changed cables - and you could have seen his jaw drop...the difference is immediate and audible...

 

 

Maybe he had a poorly soldered cable? Who knows... I wasn't there, I can't comment on if it changed the sound or not. However, i would venture that a booth at a guitar show is hardly the place to hear the subtle change a guitar cable may be able to make to a signal.

 

Lava, I don't mean to come down on you hard. However, there are a lot of misconceptions when it comes to electronics and cabling. High price cable companies are definitely not helping the situation. Audiophiles have spread around a lot of myths and it's about time to clear the air a little.

[D Carroll]

i use c.b.i. and have never had one short out... my brother has though... but, we allways fix them if we can... we are cheap ass'

[Bassius]

george L

[Brother Mango]

Works for me, you guys should meet me down at the Buckingham Fountain.

I'll meet you. But please don't wear a kilt. I'm not gonna look up to talk to a 90ft man and accidentally see up his kilt. I think that would equal un-fun.

[ryanizzle]

isn't it true that your signal is only as strong as the weakest part in the chain? i really don't have the motivation to get every single piece of my amp replaced with directional oxygen-free yadda yadda.. maybe it will make a difference then?

[LavaMan]

Yes i have done A/B tests. I've not tried out super high end cables as I'm not willing to pay 5x the price for something that is electrically identical, but super pretty packaged cable. You really need to do some studying of how electrical signals work. The average voltage from a pick-up (the DC voltage) is 0. That means that current flows one direction then the other. You could think of the pickups in a guitar as a very low power generator. The core (i.e. the strings) move across the pickup (coil) and take a little bit of the energy from the string and turn it into electrical energy. This energy is AC, just the like the AC from the wall, but much lower voltage and current. A single direction cable in this case would actually act as a rectifier (you could do this with a diode btw) and would 'cause some serious harmonic distortion as it would clip off the bottom of the signal. I'm sorry but with this post you have proven to me that you don't actually know anything about electrical theory. While i do understand your desire to have nice cables and everyone wants a free lunch, there is no such thing as a cable that will improve your sound as dramatically as you are suggesting. Furthermore, have you ever considered the fact that once your signal is actually inside the amplifier it is bouncing around on tiny little un-magic copper traces on a PCB? Come on now, lets have some perspective here people. Reasons to buy a cable (in order of importance): 1) Quality of build (this includes conforming to standards such as the real Speak-on standard or 1/4" jack standard, not knock-off reverse molded plugs as found on cheap imported cables. Also included is quality of the soldering joints, strain-relief, jacket, shield construction.... 2) Cost... I'm not willing to pay more for a cable than... lets say a couple of sets of strings. 3) Features... I include this as my primary cable is a planet-waves circuit breaker cable which is awesome when i want to unplug my bass to save batteries, in between sets etc. 4) Looks... okay really, does this matter? Maybe it does to you. ... 10) Series resistance and capacitance.... These really don't matter that much. I put them in number 10 'cause i consider them that unimportant. If your pickups are 50k ohms, and your amp input is 250k ohm, even a 1k cable is only going to leach a couple of % of your signal strength. Capacitance i covered in my earlier post. People, there is no free lunch. Buy something that's good quality and that will last. Maybe he had a poorly soldered cable? Who knows... I wasn't there, I can't comment on if it changed the sound or not. However, i would venture that a booth at a guitar show is hardly the place to hear the subtle change a guitar cable may be able to make to a signal. Lava, I don't mean to come down on you hard. However, there are a lot of misconceptions when it comes to electronics and cabling. High price cable companies are definitely not helping the situation. Audiophiles have spread around a lot of myths and it's about time to clear the air a little.

 

 

 

Let me correct you on this because you seem to think you know it all...what your amp is doing is amplifying the VOLTAGE that it recieves - typically anywhere from 300-350 milivolts at the amp dependent on how hard you are playing your instrument...have you ever measured the input voltage at your amp from your guitar/bass cable? I have. You obviously have not, as you seem to throw a lot of misplaced theory around with no significant basis in experimentation.

 

CABLES ARE NOT ELECTRICALLY INDENTICAL - if you think or preach this then you need to back to school. Changes in physical properties, metals used etc...ALL AFFECT LEVELS OF CAPACITANCE, INDUCTANCE etc...which directly affect what your AMP IS AMPLIFYING...ALL OF WHICH CAN BE EASILY HEARD, EVEN BY THE UNTRAINED, NON-MUSICIAN EAR

 

You have no basis on which to argue anything - because all you have done to some small VERY MINUTE degree is compare copper coax to copper coax...so I suggest you go back to your books, and call some audio engineers at Belden or Gepco (The two largest cable manufacturers in the U.S. - legitimate companies who make millions of feet of cable per year) and get properly educated because you lack a TRUE understanding of how cables work and what they do...

[L. Ron Hoover]

Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

[Rippin' Robin]

I got an email from Jeff about this. I'm sending a cable.

That awesome, mr. Ammons!

[L. Ron Hoover]

You havin' yourself a ball there, mr. Hoover?

Is it any wonder?

I don't have the time or inclination to argue about it, but much of the "technical discourse" on this thread is pretty funny nonetheless...