I need new instrument cables.

[LavaMan]

Here's some things to think about:

1. Double Blind testing objectively is not an accurate measurement of anything. Because, even with this personal preference can negate everything as WHO'S EARS ARE THE BEST? WHO PREFER'S WHAT? DO YOU VOTE?

2. Having sold more 20,000 cables of varying types now, I will tell you that individual guitarists and bassists DO HEAR the difference between cables - EVEN IN A LIVE SETTING. Now, the audience may not hear it, the other band members may no hear it (although I have recieved tons of emails from customers who stated their bandmates) But the individual musician does and that is what is important.

3. Relating to number 2: PERSONAL PREFERENCE IS EVERYTHING in cable selection.

4. In an early post in this thread I posted a detailed electronic explanation of the cable-amp-instrument interaction, and it is unarguable that levels of cable capacitance and inductance clearly affect tonal repsonse.

5. Individual Musicians are typically hyper-sensitive to the sound of their personal rig - therefore, the best cable testing is done in a quiet room, with your own rig against what cable you have been using. Let your own ears be the judge.

6. Are very easy way to clearly identify differences in cables is to take a small bass amp and crank it all the way up and change cables, as the volume will be loud but not too loud and you can then easily here what the cables are doing.

Bottom line: You can doubt all you want, you can balk all you want but there are audible differences between cables.

[catphish]

Here's some things to think about: 2. Having sold more 20,000 cables of varying types now, I will tell you that individual guitarists and bassists DO HEAR the difference between cables - EVEN IN A LIVE SETTING. Now, the audience may not hear it, the other band members may no hear it (although I have recieved tons of emails from customers who stated their bandmates) But the individual musician does and that is what is important. Bottom line: You can doubt all you want, you can balk all you want but there are audible differences between cables.

 

 

this is exactly what we'll be determining. Thanks again for the loaner cables.

[LavaMan]

We're starting with blind testing. We're not trying to determine better or best at this point. Only if we can hear any differences. If we can, we'll go to the next step and trying and determine more specifically what the differences is are. If we can't then the test is over. Someone will keep track of who can and can't hear any differences. I'm sure all aspects of the testing will be well documented. In the end it's all about what we hear, right? If we can't hear any difference at all there's no need to go any further. this is exactly what we'll be determining. Thanks again for the loaner cables.

 

 

I think it is GREAT what you are doing here! I hope for all involved it is a fun experience - always fun to play with new gear...

 

I trust that all involved will do a good and fair job and I am grateful you are willing to do this...

[Rippin' Robin]

I think it is GREAT what you are doing here! I hope for all involved it is a fun experience - always fun to play with new gear... I trust that all involved will do a good and fair job and I am grateful you are willing to do this...

Hey man, you still got that list for me?

[T. Alan Smith]

We're starting with blind testing. We're not trying to determine better or best at this point. Only if we can hear any differences. If we can, we'll go to the next step and trying and determine more specifically what the differences is are.

 

 

...and I'm bringing my rig for that part of the test.

[LavaMan]

Hey man, you still got that list for me?

Yes...oops...sorry...I am at work now, I will send when I get home...

[Kindness]

...and I'm bringing my rig for that part of the test.

 

 

I encourage everyone to do the same.

[Rippin' Robin]

Yes...oops...sorry...I am at work now, I will send when I get home...

 

 

No prob, no hurry!

[mrcrow]

some ideas

[abngourmet]

Wow.

Before I comment on this very lengthy, sometimes confrontational but yet informative and entertaining thread, a disclaimer.

I've known Mark (Lavaman) now for about ten years. Like him, I am a career Army officer (I'm retiring in less than 90 days, though! Yippee!), and this is in part how we met. In the time I've known him, I've come to realize that he is a very passionate individual in every endeavor I've seen him engage in, and his cable business is no exception. Reading over the threads, I suspect he's taken things a bit more personally than he should have (and I phoned him today to this effect). I guess it's one of the potentially fatal aspects of the internet - folks sometime wear their hearts on their sleeves and put thoughts down on paper that really shouldn't be there. I myself have been guilty of this, and make a conscious effort to be careful about what I write in a forum such as this. It's a good policy for all, IMHO.

Anyway, I am also a bass player, and have gone to with Mark to open mic nights and the like. I am also a Lava Cable user.

I am not a technical guy. All this talk about capacitance, resistance, ohms, wattage, graphs, etc. frankly make my head hurt. I'm a bassist who knows what he likes when he hears it, and simply wants to plug in and play, technology be damned. Call me old school, but there it is.

I've been playing over 30 years. I have played in bands here in the States, in Iraq, and also in Korea (just came back from there this past June). I purchased about $1100 worth of cable from Mark (VDH, and I can't remember the other one's name, but it's green and it's semi-rigid in that it can be bent and it holds it shape - Mark could probably tell you which one it is).

My main rig is:

Amp Rack:

QSC 1804 Power Amp
Alembic F1-X Preamp
Alembic SF-2 Superfilter
Furman AR-1215 Voltage Regulator
Korg DTR-1000 Rackmount Tuner

Cabinets:

Ampeg BXT-410HLF (4 ohm)
Ampeg BXT-115HLF (4 ohm)

Other amps:

Phil Jones Briefcase
Hartke A20 (runs on 220V-purchased in Korea)
Rocktron R20 (also purchased in Korea, 110V)
Ampeg BA-115 Combo

Basses:

'73 Fender Jazz Bass with Badass II Bridge and J-Retro preamp
'76 Fender P-Bass with an active EMG replacement pickup and Badass II
'05 Fender MIA Jazz Bass Deluxe
'99 Fender MIA Jazz Bass Deluxe Fretless
'74 Gibson Ripper
'87 Gibson Thunderbird
'77 Gibson RD Artist
'81 Gibson Victory Artist
'76 Rickenbacker 4001
'77 Rickenbacker 4001 (unfortunately in parts awaiting a total rebulid)
'04 Pedulla MVP
'87 Peavy Dyna Bass Unity Series Limited with Kahler Tremelo
Parker Fly Bass
'79 Musicman Stingray
'79 Musicman Sabre
'02 EB MM Bongo 4 HH
'03 Alembic Spyder Limited Edition
'03 Alembic Europa
'91 Alembic Essence (used in Iraq)
'92 Alembic Essence
'06 Alembic Stanley Clarke Signature Standard
'04 Alembic Dragon's Wing
'07 Alembic Custom Series II John Entwistle Exploiter replica (under construction)
Early Lakland 4-94 (one of my favorites, for all you Chicagoans!)
'77-'78 Guild B-301
Martin BC-15E Acoustic-Electric
Godin A4 Acoustic Electric
Ovation CC-074 Acoustic Electric

With the exception of the MIA Jazz Deluxe fretless, all are fretted and four string, strung with DR Hi Beams, .40-.100. I play fingerstyle, some slap, do a little tapping, and occasionally use a pick.

I have, in the past, used Planet Waves, Moster Cables, etc. amongst other brands. In fact, I still have a drawer in my bass toolbox loaded with them. They're not bad cables; if they were fewer people would use them I guess.

In terms of Lava Cables, I can say the following based on the experience of using them on two continents (Asia and North America [u.S.]) in a variety of musical settings (home use, gigs, rehearsals, etc.).

Do Lava Cables make a huge difference in tone? To me yes. Do they make a rig, pedalboard set up, or other signal chain quieter? Again, based on my experience it is a resounding yes. My rig is much, much quieter with the Lava Cables than it previously was with the other cables (I believe Monster, but I'll have to check) I was using (and yes, I A/B'd them). My pedalboard is much quieter as well (I use a Digitech Envelope Filter, Sansamp Programmable BDDI, Morley Bass Wah, Ibanez Bass Chorus, a Boss Tremelo, and a Samson Airline Wireless).

I agree with Mark that everything plays into one's tone, from the fingers to the amp to the speakers and everything in between. If someone were to hand me Jaco's famed "distressed" Fender Jazz, his Acoustic Amp set up, and have me play it, I would never sound like him. That particular combination combined with Jaco's immense skills made that tone. I don't have his skills so I doubt I could achieve the same tone. A lot of guys have tried, and I've yet to hear someone sound exactly like him.

For me, it comes down to what it sounds like. IME the Lava Cables I installed on my rig made a huge difference in tone, again, for me. The signal is clearer, somewhat louder, and very pure. I find I get a cleaner tone with the Lava Cable than I do with others, and that is an aspect of my sound I feel is important. That is why I use Lava Cables.

This might not be important to someone else, and that's cool. It's great that we live in a day and age where we have so many choices for things like cable, cars, basses, amps, restaurants, you name it. Lava Cable was a choice I made, and I'm glad I did, but I also realize it may not be for everyone. They're not cheap, but as has been noted here the quality is top notch. As I see it, it makes no sense to buy a $16000 Alembic and then use a dimestore cable to plug it into the amp. Someone once told me that any rig is only as good as the weakest component, and again, speaking only for myself, experience bears this out.

I live in Fayetteville, about 15 minutes from Mark's home, where he also has his workshop. I'd be more than willing to participate in any blind testing or any other testing for that matter. Some would consider me biased as I am a Lava Cable user, but I think that I could put that aside. Particularly if was blindfolded - now there would be a true blind test! I also know some other local bass players who might wish to participate in the shootout as it were. I will make all of my amps and basses available if that will help (with the exception of the Dragon's Wing, Rick under reconstruction and the T-Bird - the DW is at Alembic in California, Rick self explanatory, and the T-Bird is currently not wired up at the moment as I'm trying to figure out how to get a preamp into that small control compartment). I will also make availalbe the Planet Waves, Monster, and any other cables I have sitting around.

In the end, it all comes down to this - if there is a product, any product you like, you believe is worth the price, and you can afford it, buy it. If none of this criteria applies, you have many other choices as most here have noted in this thread. Again, I think that's a positive thing. At the end of the day all that really matters is that the product meets your expectations and you use it happily and hopefully for a lifetime.

My two cents,

Alan

[Westsailor]

geezus... I think you just upped the bar for the definition of gear whore

[max maroon]

....What happens?

The Chicago test thread is becoming too powerful...It's taking over other threads, we need to stop this madness!!!!