Members Mudbass Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Skyrocketing costs, a growing demographic of those who consume the most, and a shinking demographic of those who pay for it. Exactly, and government taking over the healthcare system will only throw gasoline on the fire. First, they're going to want to give it to everybody free which will explode the number of those who consume it through the roof. Second, they're going to want to tax the rich to pay for it which will place the greatest burden on the smallest demographic. Third, to contain costs they're going to pay doctors next to nothing which will run off the professional people delivering healthcare. To further contain costs they'll have to place a cap on what drug companies can charge which will remove the profits and all incentives for drug companies to do R&D and develop new drugs. So the bottom line is government run healthcare will fail for the same reasons Medicare is failing and in the end they'll either have to raise taxes to high heaven or limit services by rationing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hi.flyer Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Access to expensive, intense, high-level medical procedures and treatment would be in fact easier to obtain under a system of free socialized medicine; increased use of preventive medical care, due to it's new and inherent lack of any direct cost on the consumer's part, would reduce the demand for said medical procedures and treatments. The procedures could then be provided in an easier fashion to those who need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 So is your inability to see the obvious. So anyone expressing a view of something negative is now a 'fear-monger'. Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 First, they're going to want to give it to everybody free which will explode the number of those who consume it through the roof. Second, they're going to want to tax the rich to pay for it which will place the greatest burden on the smallest demographic. Third, to contain costs they're going to pay doctors next to nothing which will run off the professional people delivering healthcare. To further contain costs they'll have to place a cap on what drug companies can charge which will remove the profits and all incentives for drug companies to do R&D and develop new drugs. Fourth, we're going to have to extract our own teeth.(add it to the list of conservative soundbites) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Access to expensive, intense, high-level medical procedures and treatment would be in fact easier to obtain under a system of free socialized medicine; increased use of preventive medical care, due to it's new and inherent lack of any direct cost on the consumer's part, would reduce the demand for said medical procedures and treatments. The procedures could then be provided in an easier fashion to those who need them. "New and inherent lack of direct cost on the consumer's part"?? Cool, so I can stop paying those pesky taxes? I'm all for it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Exactly, and government taking over the healthcare system will only throw gasoline on the fire. First, they're going to want to give it to everybody free which will explode the number of those who consume it through the roof.Second, they're going to want to tax the rich to pay for it which will place the greatest burden on the smallest demographic.Third, to contain costs they're going to pay doctors next to nothing which will run off the professional people delivering healthcare. To further contain costs they'll have to place a cap on what drug companies can charge which will remove the profits and all incentives for drug companies to do R&D and develop new drugs.So the bottom line is government run healthcare will fail for the same reasons Medicare is failing and in the end they'll either have to raise taxes to high heaven or limit services by rationing. You sir, are correct. The problem is that the vast majority of Senior Citizens in the USA believe they are entitled to unlimited care and the best quality healthcare in the world because they were the "Greatest Generation" (or someother BS) and most of them don't care whether they bankrupt the nation or tax the next 10 generations into poverty to get it. All resources are finite, including health care and taxable income. No one is entitled to the right to spend an unlimited amount of someone else's money without that person's permission. If we violate this basic principle, rational people will start to do the absolute minimum to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 So anyone expressing a view of something negative is now a 'fear-monger'. Thanks for the update. Don't be intentionally obtuse, craig. Look at the thread title, then read the first post. The shoe fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mudbass Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Access to expensive, intense, high-level medical procedures and treatment would be in fact easier to obtain under a system of free socialized medicine; increased use of preventive medical care, due to it's new and inherent lack of any direct cost on the consumer's part, would reduce the demand for said medical procedures and treatments. The procedures could then be provided in an easier fashion to those who need them. Looks good on paper, but I don't think so. So what if the left said everybody has a right to food so we should have government foodcare. What do you suppose would happen? Everybody would hit the supermarkets and make striaght for the fillet mignon. Who the {censored} cares, the government is paying for it right? Federal healthcare removes all reasons to contain costs. People would be getting cat scans for ingrown toenails. Taking ambulance rides to the hospital for diarrhea. Who the {censored} cares, the government is paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Looks good on paper, but I don't think so. So what if the left said everybody has a right to food so we should have government foodcare. What do you suppose would happen? Everybody would hit the supermarkets and make striaght for the fillet mignon. Who the {censored} cares, the government is paying for it right? Federal healthcare removes all reasons to contain costs. People would be getting cat scans for ingrown toenails. Taking ambulance rides to the hospital for diarrhea. Who the {censored} cares, the government is paying for it. And the sky will fall.Seriously, you're making significant doomsday assumptions that don't agree with the popular universal healthcare proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasper383 Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 We don't go long without a story in the news about this or that VA Hospital screwup or red tape nightmare, etc. Poor care, incompetence, etc. Why would we as Americans want this for everyone? Is it a health care crisis in the US, or a health insurance crisis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Why do we in the USA think that dental care isn't healthcare? Does your health insurance cover it? I've got seperate insurance for that. This is really stupid, because certain types of dental problems can lead directly to non-dental conditions that can cost a fortune to fix. Ignore the mouth and have a heart attack. (Or something like that.) Healthcare includes dental care. (But not to the insurance companies.) One more thing. We continue to hemorage jobs to markets where businesses aren't expected to pick up the tab for healthcare. Canada doesn't want us to change. They are one of the recepients of those lost jobs. We have the most productive workers in the world. With single payer Government run healthcare, the job losses would end. Fight the movement at your own jobs risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 VA hospital problems. The vets who get in are getting great care. It's getting into the system that's the problem. (And an administration that would rather borrow our children's taxes to fight an un-necessary war now. See if George W. ever wins any Nobel prize. They don't have one for torture.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mudbass Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 And the sky will fall. Seriously, you're making significant doomsday assumptions that don't agree with the popular universal healthcare proposals. Well of course my assumptions don't agree with the popular universal healthcare proposals. The popular universal healthcare proposals are being made by people who want control of an additional 1/7 of the nation's economy so they can turn it into the biggest bureaucratic mess since the US tax code. You think these people are going to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasper383 Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 VA hospital problems. The vets who get in are getting great care. It's getting into the system that's the problem. (And an administration that would rather borrow our children's taxes to fight an un-necessary war now. See if George W. ever wins any Nobel prize. They don't have one for torture.) I have worked in VA hospitals and in regular hospitals. The Vets are not getting "great" care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yeah, I don't know which is worse... A medical system run by the government or by insurance companies.Let me answer your question for you.WHAT {censored}ING PROGRAM HAS THE GOVERNMENT EVER RAN EFFICIENLY AND OPTIMALLY AND NOT {censored}ED UP? If you want people like Ted Kennedy, And Hillary, And Bill nelson making decisions, that affect your very life, go right ahead and enjoy.The health care system in the U.S. could use alot of help and refinement right now. But it is still the best in the world. Yes it is very expensive in certain instances. But I would still like the option of paying for the best. If you dissagree, and think it is just completely awefull, you aint seen nothin yet baby! Wait till the government gets ahold of it. I hope you will just have enough balls to admit that you were one of the ones that railed against it for the sake of change. When we sit back and reminisce aboth the good old days, when doctors were actually good, and you could actually get in to see them, just admit that you were the one who wanted it. Any, French, Canadian, Cuban, English people, etc. feel free to jump right on in here with any comments for or against.And there is no such thing as free. YOU and I are the ones who are going to be paying for the freeloaders that refuse to work, but yet demand to be treated every time they have a fungal toenail or even just a bad dream.Get ready. Its comming.By the way, This is an editorial YOU and does not refer to zachoff in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psilocybin Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Why do we in the USA think that dental care isn't healthcare? Does your health insurance cover it? I've got seperate insurance for that. This is really stupid, because certain types of dental problems can lead directly to non-dental conditions that can cost a fortune to fix. Ignore the mouth and have a heart attack. (Or something like that.) Healthcare includes dental care. (But not to the insurance companies.) . I always wondered about that too. Why is dental separate? Who was the nazi that came up with that idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 +2 on the dental thing. I've always wondered why that was separate too. There's got to be a reason for it. I'm still up in the air over socialized health care. In a perfect world, it would be wonderful. In today's United States, I don't know. Both sides make great arguments in my view. I can see how socialized health care might deteriorate the overall quality of care. On the other hand, our current system leaves a lot of people with medical needs untreated because they can't pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 +2 on the dental thing. I've always wondered why that was separate too. There's got to be a reason for it.I'm still up in the air over socialized health care. In a perfect world, it would be wonderful. In today's United States, I don't know. Both sides make great arguments in my view. I can see how socialized health care might deteriorate the overall quality of care. On the other hand, our current system leaves a lot of people with medical needs untreated because they can't pay. The well off and most of the middle class can pay or their employer pays much of the cost. The people without any verifiable assets or income, don't pay anything. It's the working poor and those struggling to get by in the middle class that are getting screwed in this system. I have zero sympathy for people that refuse to work and I have heard their stupid arguments. I won't work for less than $15 per hour. I won't work 2 or 3 jobs. Screw them. If you have children or bills to pay, get off your asses and man up. One thing that is terribly wrong with the US system is that people who pay cash have to pay hugely higher amounts than ANY insurance company has to pay. We need leglislation that makes health care costs payor neutral.All payors whether it is private insurance, your own cash, or governent aid (Medicare, Medicaid) should pay the same price for care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassguy Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 government run healthcare is needed in the states. their conservatism is going to catch up with them in coming years due to baby boomers retiring, credit crunch, and housing down trending. more tax yes, but more jobs, and higher paying jobs as there arent going to be enough people to work them. im still shorting the usd, and buying euros...id buy yen, but with oil skyrocketing to 86, japans economy is taking a hit on import fees. Euro seems to have hit a double top, but i still have gut instinct that it will break through to new highs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasper383 Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Access to expensive, intense, high-level medical procedures and treatment would be in fact easier to obtain under a system of free socialized medicine; increased use of preventive medical care, due to it's new and inherent lack of any direct cost on the consumer's part, would reduce the demand for said medical procedures and treatments. The procedures could then be provided in an easier fashion to those who need them. Is this the way it is working in Canada, the UK, France, etc.? It would appear to be just the opposite. The way things should work under socialism and the way they do are almost always at odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Blair ran the NHS into the ground, so this is what happens. We got socialised healthcare in the rest of Europe. It's working okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wotamess Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 having been through a back operation and childbirth in the last 2 years living in the UK, i can happily vouch for the NHS. that is all. -wam- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Is this the way it is working in Canada, the UK, France, etc.? It would appear to be just the opposite.The way things should work under socialism and the way they do are almost always at odds.That's exactly how it works in France at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 How did Blair run NHS into the ground? This is the first time I've heard of this, although we usually don't get much if any info on the UK's health care system here in the states other than politicians saying it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mmb Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 government run healthcare is needed in the states.Thank you, no. Keep your "awesome" Canadian healthcare system north of the border, please.I've a couple dozen extended family members in CBI, Nova Scotia and St. Johns Newfoundland. Anyone who has the money to pay has Blue Cross Blue Shield cards and catch the ferry to Yarmoth Maine for anything other than a cold. My great aunt came to Buffalo New York to get heart surgery done because they scheduled her out 4 months for valve replacement. She was under the knife within a week in the States.I've dozens of other examples from talking with family on vacations about the lack of care, lack of bed space and general lack of equipment from their personal experiences. But prescriptions are free. Way to go with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.