Members bassplayer7770 Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 This thread reminds me of something. I used to play in Christian bands. One of my bands played a venue in Central Ohio that was basically a youth ministry, and we played there for free a couple times (we couldn't even ask for tips). My buddy was playing in a fairly well known Christian band in Grand Rapids (opened for Jars of Clay and more). He was talking to the guy at the venue and brought up the issue of "pay", and that guy went off on him. That guy had no problem getting money for HIS ministry, but God forbid my buddy want some compensation for HIS ministry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jopagering Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 well, i am looking for at lest 20,000. atlant has about 200 churches that have membership of 5,000 and up. and the average salary is 25-30k. i know plenty of bass players who do alot less and are paid alot more than i am. the church i play forshow how much they raise on a sunday basis, and its no less than 60k. Wow, I've played in much smaller churches, and it was all volunteer. However, your situation at that huge church is much busier than the average band member at a small to medium size church. Your time commitment is not the norm I've ever seen, and compensation seems very reasonable to me. You mentioned that you've prayed about it. Good! Go talk to the finance committee, the Music Pastor, Elder Board, or whatever entity is the decision-maker, and ask for a raise. Do you remember though, who you REALLY are working for, and let that temper your actions and attitude. Do make sure you go through the proper channels! Don't go over anyone's authority that you shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 ...He was talking to the guy at the venue and brought up the issue of "pay", and that guy went off on him. That guy had no problem getting money for HIS ministry, but God forbid my buddy want some compensation for HIS ministry... Aahhh, 'Christians'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 you have 5000 members a sunday coming to your churrch,about half give tithes that averages 20 per person. that is 50000 a sunday. times 4 is 200000 a month, times 12 is over 2 million dollars. i feel that 20000, a year to be a "part time" on call musicain isnt alot. But see, thats where you have your perceptiosn skewed. You are only counting the hours you spend "in" church. What makes it more than a part time gig is the "on-call" nature of the job. Its like a 3/4 time job. And I agree with the comment about getting the rest of the band together and setting consistent rehearsal times. They want pro players, they gotta play by pro rules. And don't forget to keep growing spiritually. A lot of times if all i am doing is showing up to play, I don't get much from the service, because I'm thinking about the cues and how I messed up the last chorus. Reminds me i'm just a human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 This thread reminds me of something. I used to play in Christian bands. One of my bands played a venue in Central Ohio that was basically a youth ministry, and we played there for free a couple times (we couldn't even ask for tips). My buddy was playing in a fairly well known Christian band in Grand Rapids (opened for Jars of Clay and more). He was talking to the guy at the venue and brought up the issue of "pay", and that guy went off on him. That guy had no problem getting money for HIS ministry, but God forbid my buddy want some compensation for HIS ministry... So goes the worship at the Temple of Mammon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I've gotten paid to play in church, but I have no problem doing it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 This whole idea that he's making plenty because he's "working for God" is ludicrous to me; he's on-call 24/7. That's full time.The God I pray to doesn't want him riding a bus and mortaging his life to the church while the minister drives a Cadillac and lives in a mansion. acmaddox, the Lord will still love you if you tell your church that you can't live off their wages. I've spent alot of time in Atlanta, it's not a cheap place to live. They need to take care of their flock.These Superchurches operate like a corporation, not a church. They invest in real estate and the stock market, and they make much, much more money than just the tithe plate at services. I've seen some of the financial numbers of the big ministry in Denver, they are raking in millions.My point is, our new friend should treat this just like any of us would our jobs; if we aren't making what we feel we're worth we ask for more or move on, and if somebody tries to guilt us for doing so, we tell them to {censored} off.C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModmanQ6 Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Money is the heart of greed and the work of the devil... Megacorporate churches make me very ill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Money is the heart of greed and the work of the devil... Megacorporate churches make me very ill... They don't have the market cornered on greed in the Lord's Name, I assure you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hotblack Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Instead of asking for a raise, try to talk to some other band members and get a solid schedule worked out. Then start gigging! That is a great idea! You've got a built in band and set-list. Try to pick up some other gigs at some other Christian functions. The church will probably make some time allowances for it, since you would be advertising the church (as the so-and-sos from such-and-such church). Something like that could really bring in some more income, more contacts, some students (if you're interested in teaching). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 the reason we have flip flop rehersals is because the church i play for(i wanna tell you which church but i dont want this forum to haunt me!)has two locations. we alterante between the two churches every month, therefore every mont we flip flop rehersal days, and that aint even a given( i know i said aint) our m.o.m might call a mass rehearsal and that just throws off stuff also.the chuch motto is two churches in one location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deep Bass Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Did I miss something? His first post said: ... i currently dont make 15,000 a year playing here, ... So what do you make a year? Everyone is responding like the salary is 15,000 a year. As far as being paid as a musician in church, as far as I know, it is standard practice to pay the organist in smaller and medium sized churches. I think they are taking advantage of you because you are young. It's good that you're starting to question the arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 That is a great idea! You've got a built in band and set-list. Try to pick up some other gigs at some other Christian functions. The church will probably make some time allowances for it, since you would be advertising the church (as the so-and-sos from such-and-such church). Something like that could really bring in some more income, more contacts, some students (if you're interested in teaching). I have a sneaking suspicion that this church wouldn't allow them to gig outside the church for money, or they would ask them to give them the money they earned. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Banta Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I have a sneaking suspicion that this church wouldn't allow them to gig outside the church for money, or they would ask them to give them the money they earned. C7 What makes you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Did I miss something? His first post said: So what do you make a year? Everyone is responding like the salary is 15,000 a year. . after taxes i make a 14000. i had a "meeting" with the pastor scheduled, but the minister of music called me over the phone instead. we takled, he said the church isnt able to do anything:rolleyes: but the thing that really got me was that the pastor deciced to send an informant instead of taking time out of his schedule to meet with one of his employees that he works with on a weekly basis. i really feel that he dosent value me as an individual. i asked for monitary help or any kind of help to help get a car. i dont need a bmw, just something with wheels and heat, ac, and is safe!i think its time for me to start shopping around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brake Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 What makes you think that? You catholics are shady people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deep Bass Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 after taxes i make a 14000. i had a "meeting" with the pastor scheduled, but the minister of music called me over the phone instead. we takled, he said the church isnt able to do anything:rolleyes: but the thing that really got me was that the pastor deciced to send an informant instead of taking time out of his schedule to meet with one of his employees that he works with on a weekly basis. i really feel that he dosent value me as an individual. i asked for monitary help or any kind of help to help get a car. i dont need a bmw, just something with wheels and heat, ac, and is safe!i think its time for me to start shopping around. Yeah, if he won't talk with you face-to-face, he's not respecting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Credit in heaven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Yeah, if he won't talk with you face-to-face, he's not respecting you. Or he is embarrassed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Must Ignore obvious parody thread Must Ignore obvious parody thread Must Ignore obvious parody thread Must Ignore obvious parody thread.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Float that turd on OJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members i_wanna_les_paul Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 IME, the answer would be "never." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members One_Dude Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I have played in church for many years; some of it for free and some of it for pay. The going rate in my area is $50 per service. We do not get that because our Pastor says the church can't afford it. Our Praise & Worship group gets $40 per service. Our group leader is the music minister and is on salary; she however has more duties than just leading our group. We have the same musicians on a pretty regular basis but the number and mix of singers varies. None of us actually gets paid; the money goes into a checking account that we use for a pizza party now and then or maybe to buy equipment for use by our group. There are two issues that I have not seen addressed in this thread; how much do the other musicians get paid, and what about establishing a "per hour" rate instead of a salary. I understand that you are trying to be a full-time musician, but quite honestly there are very few who can do that. I know you don't want to hear this but I think your pay is good for the number of hours that you actually work. On my regular job I was "on call" 24 hours a day and never got any extra money for that arrangement. I did get extra pay if I had to report in and do some work, but nothing extra to "stand by". I was also an "adjunct" professor at a local college and even then I got paid only for "contact" hours, (those hours that you are actually in front of the class). There was no pay for hours I spent preparing for class or for hours I spent grading student work. This is not unusual and is the typical arrangement. I suggest you meet with your Pastor and tell him that you need to increase your income to survive and that means that you will be accepting other work. If that other work conflicts with his needs for you at church then there will have to be compromises made. You are at a career crossroads and if you intend to be a full-time musician you will have to expand your work world to include earnings that come from sources other than the church. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 9, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 At what point was a gun put to your head forcing you into this gig??? Were you making more somewhere else and promised the same salary here? You stated earlier that you're very young, so I'm gonna give you some old man advice....with anything in life, whether it be work, women, bands, whatever; if you think you can get a better deal elsewhere, then by all means go get that deal. Otherwise quit whining and do the job you agreed to for the money you agreed to. You seem so insistent that you're being hard done by. So leave. Nobody is forcing you to do this. If anything, get them to have a consistent rehearsal schedule so you can get other jobs. But unless that too was something that didn't exist when you signed on, you need to just deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 At what point was a gun put to your head forcing you into this gig??? Were you making more somewhere else and promised the same salary here? You stated earlier that you're very young, so I'm gonna give you some old man advice....with anything in life, whether it be work, women, bands, whatever; if you think you can get a better deal elsewhere, then by all means go get that deal. Otherwise quit whining and do the job you agreed to for the money you agreed to. You seem so insistent that you're being hard done by. So leave. Nobody is forcing you to do this. If anything, get them to have a consistent rehearsal schedule so you can get other jobs. But unless that too was something that didn't exist when you signed on, you need to just deal with it. Well yeah, there's that too. Hey, you asked, and you got your answer, and you understood it to be what it is. Your church doesn't value your work as much as you do. Go play your bass somewhere else. You'll likely find higher quality worship elsewhere as well. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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