Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 i wasn't blasting you fella, maybe you can get paid for playing in a church, i've been in a couple worship band that toured, and we got paid, so why not them at least help you out with expenses and gear... sorry if it came out a little wrong... apology accepted:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zackbass Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 Well, I live in Atlanta, and know that there are many opportunities to pick up extra cash as a casual sideman, a regular sub, or a fill-in player for any number of bands in the area. You may have to expand your playing a bit to include, for example, jazz or swing bands, or even other church/Christian groups (as others have suggested). I sub for a rock band, two swing/jazz bands, and a concert band, some of it paid, some for dinner only. It's not a living, but it fills some gaps sometimes. I think the main problem, however, is your unwillingness to consider taking charge of your career in music, even if it is in praise of God. There are plenty of people, Christian and secular, who will take advantage of your willingness to accept what they want to give, even at a high cost to yourself, as in your situation. They consider it fair. If you do not, you must stand up for yourself and operate as a business, even as a believer. Set the rules for your own business: the hours you want to work, the services you have that clients would be willing to buy, and how much money you want to make (keeping in mind, however, that there are maximums that the market will pay). You must set the rules for this "client", as in how many hours you will be available, for the very reasonable purpose of having other hours available for other income-producing opportunities. A client who disregards your need to make a decent living Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NSPBass Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 I've been a gigging musician for several years now, playing both bass and french horn. And, for several years, I've worked other jobs, such as minister of music, Domino's, UPS (currently - 11pm to 3am). I've also taught students, which is really good money if you like to teach. To be honest, the best side job I've had is the UPS. The money is steady, I've got benefits that would make most people drool, and since I work late at night, it rarely interferes with my gigs. Yes, some days are really rough when I get to bed at 5 and have to be at a rehearsal ready to play at a very high level by 10. But, that's the life of a professional gigging musician. Until I get that one gig that will pay the bills (coming up, actually - US Army Band), then I will continue to practice and do what needs to be done. I know that UPS has a huge operation in Atlanta, so I would check into that. I also mentioned another option: military. I don't know your personal convictions on all that, but there aren't many places where you can go, play music for a living and be taken care of as well as the military. Here's my situation: I'll be playing in the Army Band at Fort Monroe (Virginia Beach). I'll be making over $30K a year, not including outside gigs. Not a vast sum of money, but it sure beats working the 3 or 4 jobs I'm doing now to make less than half that. My student loans will be history. My wife's student loans will be history. My days will consist of working out, playing my horn, and loving my wife. Not a bad deal. As a bass player, life would even be sweeter, because you don't have to do the parades. You play in a big band or jazz combo or rock band. Especially as a young guy, presumably without a large number of responsibilities, I'd figure it to be a great opportunity. You just have to make sure you're stationed at the right base (Fort Monroe - no deployment; Fort Campbell - part of 101st Airborne, LOTS of deployment). I've been in your shoes for a long time and I've made the choices necessary for me to make a living doing what I love to do. Now it's your turn. nspbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zackbass Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 UPS does huge hiring during certain seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KeysBear Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 I've led worship for $100 a week, $75 a week, and $0 a week. I've played sax and piano for churches and made from $80 to $0 a performance. Right now I'm broke, owe tons of medical bills and money is not my main goal in life. My last paying club gig was New Year's Eve. I just want to enjoy what I do. Now I play piano at a 300 member church for no pay and just figure what I'm doing is giving back to God at a time when I don't have much more than money for food and gas. I put in two hours on Wednesday nights and two hours on Sundays including rehearsals. A lot of people seem to geniunely love me at that church so maybe that's better than money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragon9666 Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 One should not expect to get paid for playing at church. GOD gave you those talants to praise HIM. You should do it for free. Very greedy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 Personally, I see my instruments, my rig, and my talent as all blessings from God. The least I can do is put my time, tools and talents to use helping lead in worship. Using the church for financial gain is a tremendous fault in the history of Christianity. Exactly! I played for 10 years at a church, most weeks 3 out of 4 services, I also ran sound and was an adult coordinator for a youth praise team, I did extra events, tech for special events, sang when I could. In that 10 years I think I netted about $200 worht of gear (the church gave me a powered monitor because they didn't need it anymore and knew my band had no monitors). If you don't have a car, you need to look at a real job that will put you in a better place financially. If your job makes it impossible for you to gig, it should not be on the church to make more money for you. If a couple of rehearsals and services are such a burden, it's time to look at your motives, look at your heart and decide if you are playing there for the right reason. Have you prayed about it? That should be your first action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 One should not expect to get paid for playing at church. GOD gave you those talants to praise HIM. You should do it for free.Very greedy IMO. Then you have issues with some of the words that Paul wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 One should not expect to get paid for playing at church. GOD gave you those talants to praise HIM. You should do it for free.Very greedy IMO. What if he is using the proceeds to support his church music ministry? Without some cash, musical instuments and gear for doing all that "praise" just don't happen... We aren't talking profit and greed, we are talking about *support of a ministry*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 Quote:Originally Posted by dragon9666 One should not expect to get paid for playing at church. GOD gave you those talants to praise HIM. You should do it for free.Very greedy IMO. Then you have issues with some of the words that Paul wrote.I think dragon's got issues, period... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 One should not expect to get paid for playing at church. GOD gave you those talants to praise HIM. You should do it for free. Very greedy IMO. You didn't read a single word in this thread before you posted, did you?Along the lines of what zackbass said: what exactly do you do for a living, dragon? Whatever it is, I'd like you to do it for free. GOD gave you the ability to do whatever it is you make gain from, you should come over to my place and do it to praise HIM. I shouldn't have to pay you. If you deny me, you're even more greedy than you accuse our new friend acmaddox of being, because at least he's riding a bus to church while you drive your car to work. Eh?C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 You didn't read a single word in this thread before you posted, did you? Along the lines of what zackbass said: what exactly do you do for a living, dragon? Whatever it is, I'd like you to do it for free. GOD gave you the ability to do whatever it is you make gain from, you should come over to my place and do it to praise HIM. You know, I can see dragon9666's point. Heck, I've been there and still live there to an extent. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle right now. One thing that I've noticed in church is that there's this feeling of obligation to volunteerism (if that's a word) and, when somebody comes along who wants to be paid for their labor, they're branded a hypocrite. I've seen too many times volunteers get getting taken advantage of and worked to death, leaving the volunteer with huge feelings of frustrations. I've seen a lot of people leave churches over this. What makes matters worse is that most churches are staffed with people who have very little experience in the outside workforce, (i.e. the people to whom they're ministering), and make their living off of attracting volunteers to step up and do the things that are needed to make their church successful. So, the church staff buys into the the mentality. I think that many churches would be run much differently if their head would step out and take a job in, say, high tech, for a few years. Personally, I'd love to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragon9666 Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 I used to play in a church band, so I know what i'm talking about here.I see i'm well liked around here, again.Say whatever you what................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragon9666 Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 And NO C7, I dont need to read 6 pages of posts to post here. You seem to flame people when they dont read all the posts. SO WHAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 Maybe I missed this but how old are you? That said, 14,000 a year after taxes? That's what, almost 20,000 a year pre-tax right there, isn't it? Hell that's more than I make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 okay, now im reading the post, and i see alot of ungodly cussing for one. second, i have rayed about it. 3rd, every two weeks i get paid 590, after i pay tithes and my offering, that goes down to 500 every two weeks, which is 250 a week. taxes dont matter, i can make 1 million before taxes but if its 5000 after taxes, then it dont matter. i really think you need to read the post because you are asking questions and dont know the full story. also like i have said, nobody seems to want to touch the fact that pastors, Christian artist, end even bibles have to be paid for. if i walked into a guitar center and said i wanted a amp, they would ask for money. im not gonna say "jesus paid it all"its funny because if it where all about the money.then i wouldn't even bother CATCHING THE BUS TO CHURCH FOR 2 YEARS ALREADY!!!!!!!!. i think that whoever post on here that tries to accuse me of being greedy,1) haven't played for a mega ministry,2) aint trynna be a full time musician, and 3) havent read the whole post.i dislike the fact that because you lable yourself as a christian, that people think you should do it and God is gonna drop a car in my lap one day. i just asked the church for some assistance. nothing is wrong with that. the church should be there to help. if im helping them they should do the same.whats wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 A Big Fat ZERO! If you are playing in Church to get paid you have missed it Big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members K7Baixo Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 By that logic, the good preacher shouldn't need a salary either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 By that logic, the good preacher shouldn't need a salary either. Many Pastors dont get paid a salary.While we are paying the Bassist lets go ahead and pay all the Choir members and everyone in the Orchestra as well.lets see how long it will take to deplete the entire church budget by paying the Musuicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members K7Baixo Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 Many Pastors dont.Got a source for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 Got a source for that? your post would indicate to me that you are the age of HMM I say all of 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 And NO C7, I dont need to read 6 pages of posts to post here.You seem to flame people when they dont read all the posts.SO WHAT. You can do whatever the {censored} you want to, holmes. It's just absurd when people come crashing into a thread and say something without even taking a look at what has been said. You didn't even read his first post, you saw the thread title, opened it, and posted. Had you read his first post, you would have realized that he wants to play in the Lord's name, but is struggling with the schedule they demand from him and the pay they give him. He didn't just ask "hey, what should I expect." Over the course of 6 pages, we've discussed his many options, and given thoughtful advice. Had you perused those posts, you likely would have said something that wouldn't have made you come across as an ignorant twit. I'm concerned about your image.C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 i think that whoever post on here that tries to accuse me of being greedy,1) haven't played for a mega ministry,2) aint trynna be a full time musician, and 3) havent read the whole post.i dislike the fact that because you lable yourself as a christian, that people think you should do it and God is gonna drop a car in my lap one day. i just asked the church for some assistance. nothing is wrong with that. the church should be there to help. if im helping them they should do the same.whats wrong with that. You're right. One of the most famous sayings in the Christian world is "the Lord helps those who help themselves." You have to stand up for yourself, even if you are standing against the church. Ultimately, God will judge you by the merits of your actions and the motivations of your soul, so don't be afraid to challenge the church if you don't feel you're getting what you deserve. At the same time, don't allow yourself or anyone else to guilt you into believing that you should sacrifice your personal advancement in life for the church; you serve the Lord, not the church, and if you're to believe anything your pastor tells you, God wants you to be happy and wants you to pursue that, even if people think you're being "greedy". C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 At 15-20 grand before taxes (which is what matters) this should be your job. Are you putting in 40 hours a week? Many folks work full-time jobs to make that much every year (this is why I don't shop at Wal-Mart...) If you want to mak this about being a full-time musician, than you need to be more clear about that in your post. A full-timer will be putting in a lot more time than you do with your church, not to mention the countless hours of marketing yourself to groups or venues, which doesn't pay anything. It would be great if we could all just work a couple of days a week and make that kind of money. Remember, the lack of a vehicle is not because God hasn't GIVEN you one, it's due to your life choices, your financial dealings and your motivations. Between your job and what you are making at church, I'd venture to say that a used car should be well within your budget, but I don't know all of the numbers for your situation. I used to make $26,000 and it was more than enough to pay rent, car pmnt, insurance, electric, food, an still have moeny to go out or buy clothes.. Nothing was forcing me fro having what I needed, and if it is such a pain to ride the bus (been there and done that) maybe you should find a way to change your situation. I would find out what the other musicians are making, just to get a reference (I know, it's not polite to ask.....) then count in any education they have that might make them more qualified and count in the years of experience they may have, all are factors that matter when it comes to pay scale. I think your original post was not clear, it can happen, and more information is needed before anyone can truly grasp the point, also the title tends to lead into a certain mindset, so that may have (a little) something to do with the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members K7Baixo Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 your post would indicate to me that you are the age of HMM I say all of 13 Translated: I got nothing to back up my statement other than a pathetic example or two of churches where the members expect the preacher to work for free and eat squirrel for dinner. Having grown up in the 'Bible Belt', you can rest assured that it's every church's mission to see that their pastor is cared for financially. In fact, in the vast majority of congregations, it's a point of pride in terms of offerings that start with the salary and end with the sharing of fresh food at every point along the way. They won't get rich from it but at least in the majority of small churches I've been associated with, that's not the point - the point is that they won't starve either and can at least afford the basics - including transportation.You might enjoy reading some of the articles on North American Mission Board's site also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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