Members heartsndspades Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 a maybach?! yea your church seems like a thriving business. seriously though.. see if they can find a car to donate to you. i wasnt aware musicians got paid for playing services either. i know some record and sell cds but didnt know they were on salary. (i go to a large, music drivin church similar to yours[rarly]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnny6644 Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Have 'em take up a collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcrow Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 a place in heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Nothing, you're in the pocket for God. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 If the gig is becomming too taxing, it's time to reconsider. It doesn't matter whether it's for a church or not. If you feel that your monetary compensation is not enough, it may be time to go. However, if you think that there are intrinsic benefits that outweight the lack of money... What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I volunteer for my church gig. I'm not able to offer financial support, so it's something I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 its really amazing that people dont think church musicians shouldnt get paid, what about pastors getting paid, or a guest artist getting paid, or even a guest minister getting paid. yeah its for GOD(let me stop there, i dont want anyone to think that i am playing for this church just for the money I AM NOT!)i just feel that the demand is greater than the compensation. administrative job at the church is outta the question. we dont read, they burn us a cd of the song and we learn them.a church of this magnatude looks for a steady relianle musician that will be on call. that means if my minister of music calls me at 5 am and says we gotta go to macon with the pastor we leave at 3, i cant say well, i gotta work and dont get off till 6. cuz ill get docked. i understand where you guys are comming from.atlanta is home of 2 of the largest church congregations in america,(newbitrh with 25,000 memebers and world changers with 22,000 members)these churhes demend alot out of us musicians. agin let me reinstate. this is no small church!!!! this is a full blown mega minstry:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 i should also add that if my request isnt granted i dont intend on leaving the church, but if the financial duties outweigh the charges at the church, then i might have to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 See, that sounds like less a "part time" gig and more of an "on retainer" type of deal. If they want you available 24/7, they need to support you commensurately. The admin idea was just to see if they needed help in that arean, but you do all songs by ear/memorization? Good on ya! I'm too scatter brianed to keep em all straight But one thing you mentioned strikes me as odd. They pay you below poverty level wages, but if you can;t make a short call because you have to support yourself in a moderately expensive ctiy, they'll get someone else? That doesn't sound right, from any angle. and like I said, I have no problem with you getting paid, I just never have been. I was more comfortable that way, as it kept my motivation straight, which is a struggle I can see you're having too. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NSPBass Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Ok, there are a few things that need to be addressed here. Pay for play: Most churches are vastly smaller than the one that you attend, and can therefore not afford to pay their musicians, even if they wanted to. However, in your situation it seems as though the church demands that the musicians perform at a professional level. At that point, I don't think there's a problem with the musicians being paid. They're required to perform at a professional level, so they should be compensated as a professional. This is the same as the pastor or minister of music, etc. It's a ministry, but also a job. In this case, I think $15K is about right, to be honest. It is a part-time gig. I make less than that at UPS, and I supplement that by playing with different orchestras around the region and teaching lessons. On call:This is the thing that I think is throwing a wrench in stuff. If the normal schedule is your rehearsals and services, that's what you're getting paid for. I think that all the extra stuff should be treated as overtime in this situation. Or, you should at least be able to recommend a sub and pay him/her out of your pocket, while you're out playing some other gig. I used to play at a church that had a regular praise band, and if you couldn't make it, you had to find your sub and pay them whatever they agreed to. Pastor driving a Maybach:This is ridiculous. I know the guy works hard and is in charge of a large number of people. However, driving one of the most expensive cars available is just stupid. This is where people are justified in saying, "Wow, the Jesus business must be good this year!" This kind of thing really bugs me for some reason. Again, leading a group of people that large is not an easy or simple job. But it just seems a bit (ok, a big bit) much to me. As a former minister of music, myself, I would approach the guy and say that you love what you do, but it's getting to the point that you just can't make ends meet at the current salary. If he can bump things up or pay extra for conferences, etc, that's awesome. If not, you'll just have to do what every other working musician on the planet does: work harder, more hours, and definitely teach. I hate teaching, but I do it because I have to right now. I'm good at it, mind you, but I hate it. I hope this helps a bit. nspbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 its really amazing that people dont think church musicians shouldnt get paid, what about pastors getting paid, or a guest artist getting paid, or even a guest minister getting paid.... This is why I no longer support the corporate church. The Christian church was never intened on becoming a corporate venture. This is why the early church met at homes(re. small groups). This is how I practice my Christianity today. I miss playing for my local corporate congregation, but I suppose my relationship to my Savior is more important than my playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 i appreciate everyones opinion on this matter.thank you for your input and your advice.God bless you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 You're being exploited in the name of the Lord. My wife lived in Atlanta for 6 months last year while she trained to underwrite mortgages. The SuperMegaloChurches in Atlanta are well-renowned in the mortgage world as incredible real estate investors. I don't know which church, but my wife underwrote a loan for a "pastor" at one of the GigantotronSuperEnormoChurches in ATL, and I promise you, if the head of your church tells you they can't afford to pay you more, he's lying out his pious Christian ass. You would make more waiting tables at Ruby Tuesday and gigging in a cover band. Seriously. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Retrovertigo Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I'm willing to bet that all of the people who are giving him crap about playing for money are not trying to get by as a performing musician. That being said, have you considered throwing your name out there for studio work? Pickup jazz gigs on Sunday/Late Saturday/Friday night? Get a calender, divided the days up into hour blocks and fill out the blocks that you spend with the church. Use the rest of the time to find other stuff. If you find another steady gig that interferes with the church gig a bit, I'm sure they can hire a sub for that potential one day a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I got paid around $50 a service when I was doing a church gig. We didn't do practices we just showed up an hour early and picked out charts. I was also on a rotation, though, so I basically just played when I was available. I think there were 3-4 bassists total covering everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bassopotamus Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I don't really know, but I do second the reccomendation of considering if it is worth it to you. My step mom was music director for a small church (ran the choirs, did all the service music on sundays). She figured out that if she put in an extra 10 hr a week at her regular job, it would pay more than the 30 hrs a week she was getting from the church. For a while it was worth it to her, but they got a new minister and there were a bunch of hassles. When she decided the pay and intrinsic rewards were no longer worth the hassle, she moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Banta Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I'm willing to bet that all of the people who are giving him crap about playing for money are not trying to get by as a performing musician. Who's giving him crap? It's like anything else, you can't expect to be paid more than the going rate. I imagine there are a lot of bassists who would be very happy to be paid that much for that job. It's not exactly full-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prosigna Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Compensation comes down to one question: What does it cost to replace you? I am a youth pastor with a part-time position in a much smaller church. I do more work than I am payed for but my level of compensation is determined by answering the question above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 due to our weekly rehearsal jumpin around i really cant do a nite gig, most people rehearse at night, and im at the church then.so even if it was a mid week thing, a saturday thing, or a sunday evening thing, i couldt do it.im i have rent, cell phone, and food cost, and 300 a week aint cuttin it. not even talkin bout inuranve for a car which is to the stars cus im soo young! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Retrovertigo Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Who's giving him crap? It's like anything else, you can't expect to be paid more than the going rate. I imagine there are a lot of bassists who would be very happy to be paid that much for that job. It's not exactly full-time. I was talking about the high and mighty ones saying band members shouldn't get paid. I would agree that he is getting decent compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Retrovertigo Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 due to our weekly rehearsal jumpin around i really cant do a nite gig, most people rehearse at night, and im at the church then.so even if it was a mid week thing, a saturday thing, or a sunday evening thing, i couldt do it.im i have rent, cell phone, and food cost, and 300 a week aint cuttin it. not even talkin bout inuranve for a car which is to the stars cus im soo young! Find a cover band that rehearses once a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 due to our weekly rehearsal jumpin around i really cant do a nite gig, most people rehearse at night, and im at the church then.so even if it was a mid week thing, a saturday thing, or a sunday evening thing, i couldt do it.im i have rent, cell phone, and food cost, and 300 a week aint cuttin it. not even talkin bout inuranve for a car which is to the stars cus im soo young! Ok, it's clear to me. Sorry if i hassled you earlier... It seems like they want you on call full time. You need set a rehearsal schedule so you can get a second gig. If the job was consistant, than you'd be fine. Instead of asking for a raise, try to talk to some other band members and get a solid schedule worked out. Then start gigging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acmaddox0825 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 I'm willing to bet that all of the people who are giving him crap about playing for money are not trying to get by as a performing musician. i bet most of them play for small churches also.im not bragging about playing for a large church, i just think many of you dont realise its a whole nother game.imagine this.. you have 5000 members a sunday coming to your churrch,about half give tithes that averages 20 per person. that is 50000 a sunday. times 4 is 200000 a month, times 12 is over 2 million dollars. i feel that 20000, a year to be a "part time" on call musicain isnt alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 You should talk to bassgeek about this. Some churches seem to pay between $50 to $100 per service, but if they can find a church volunteer to play, they'd prefer to do so.As to your situation, like mine, there is no shame in asking your church for "a gift" but remember.......they might say no, but if you don't ask, they ALL say no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 9, 2007 Members Share Posted February 9, 2007 Some churches seem to pay between $50 to $100 per service, but if they can find a church volunteer to play, they'd prefer to do so.As to your situation, like mine, there is no shame in asking your church for "a gift" but remember.......they might say no, but if you don't ask, they ALL say no! My drummer friend, Bev, will just come out and tell the church what she charges, no exceptions. Unless, of course, she's playing at her home church. Heck, I'm a good friend and have played with her on and off for 17 years or so and my wife doesn't even get a break when she uses her for things! If you want Bev, you gotta step up and pay, that's just the way it is. The thing is, she's an incredible worship drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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