I am the Thread Killer

[Zamfir]

[ex-prof mode]

 

Closed book teaches students to memorize and tends to increase the panic memory-dump/loss in many.

 

Open book may be less efficient if there's a time limit - which puts an incentive on better studying in advance - but enables all students to put together material in a critical/thoughtful way without forcing them to rely on memory alone.

 

I always preferred doing the latter for finals. I'd rather have thoughtful essays to read (at least some of them), than half-illegible panicky essays trying to fit the kitchen sink in there, to the detriment of synthesis of the information.

 

For the profs worth beans, it's not about scaring the crap out of students or screwing with their grades for sheer numbers' sake, it's about creating the opportunity to show their insights and depth of absorption of the material.

 

[/ex-prof mode]

[niomosy]

This kind of reasoning is why a lot of sys admins would scoff at the so-called certifications. There were only a few out there that really showed that you knew your stuff, CCIE being the big one. Most of the rest were basically memorization of loads of useless crap that you wouldn't likely see in the real world. You then end up with a load of people with their certs and no clue as to what's going on.

So when we interview people, we typically discard the certs and go for the straight questions that are going to get us a decent idea about the candidates.

[82Daion]

Alarm didn't go off this morning, so I not only slept through my computer science final, but I didn't get up until 10PM.

 

I am now extremely well rested and have nothing to do but be extremely frustrated at myself.

[Zamfir]

This kind of reasoning is why a lot of sys admins would scoff at the so-called certifications. There were only a few out there that really showed that you knew your stuff, CCIE being the big one. Most of the rest were basically memorization of loads of useless crap that you wouldn't likely see in the real world. You then end up with a load of people with their certs and no clue as to what's going on. So when we interview people, we typically discard the certs and go for the straight questions that are going to get us a decent idea about the candidates.

From what you and I talked about 3 or so years ago, I always got the sense that the certs were a necessary but insufficient condition, i.e., that if you didn't have at least 3-4 certs, IT firms or departments wouldn't even look at you?

[Zamfir]

Alarm didn't go off this morning, so I not only slept through my computer science final, but I didn't get up until 10PM. I am now extremely well rested and have nothing to do but be extremely frustrated at myself.

The thought of that kind of {censored} would terrify me in school, such that I never missed an exam.

Do you have a way to make up the exam?

[82Daion]

The thought of that kind of {censored} would terrify me in school, such that I never missed an exam. Do you have a way to make up the exam?

It terrifies the {censored} out of me as well, but apparently not enough so to motivate me.

I sent the instructor an email, but my hopes are not high.

[Zamfir]

It's not the motivation, it's the depth of the deep sleep wave...

[Zamfir]

[YOUTUBE]HhZBWhZsBKg[/YOUTUBE]

[oldivor]

It's common here for engineering profs here to give you the formulas you need(unless it's just a couple). Which IMO is the best. That makes life so much easier unlike the whole open book thing. Basically if you know what you're doing, you're fine. Open book tests here aren't like that here. I don't care what profs are suppose to do, that's how it works here.

[Zamfir]

It's common here for engineering profs here to give you the formulas you need(unless it's just a couple). Which IMO is the best. That makes life so much easier unlike the whole open book thing. Basically if you know what you're doing, you're fine. Open book tests here aren't like that here. I don't care what profs are suppose to do, that's how it works here.

Bah...the few physics classes I took, you had to remember the freakin' formula or you were screwed.

[fretless]

[YOUTUBE]GyYSuZbXEmc&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

[oxygentang]

OMG, this thread is still around...

[niomosy]

From what you and I talked about 3 or so years ago, I always got the sense that the certs were a necessary but insufficient condition, i.e., that if you didn't have at least 3-4 certs, IT firms or departments wouldn't even look at you?

It depends on the group you're in but it can tend to be true. What happens is that no admin thinks they're worth a damn but consulting companies look at them very heavily and you will get managers from companies that kinda want them even if none of the staff actually care.

The other place where it's very common is for lower-end positions. Things like PC tech support and such, ie the positions you usually step into from the call center / help desk roles, tend to favor certs. You're probably not going to have much experience in the first place so certs are at least something showing that you can memorize semi-related answers for a test.

It's the consulting companies where it becomes important. At least, in the old days, various benefits as a reseller were tied to having a certain number of certified people on staff.

Then there are the exception certs. The ones that people really look at. The only one that really comes to mind is Cisco's CCIE cert. This cert now requires you to gain lower certs before going for this one (at least that I recall). Getting one will net you lots of interest and job offers. At least, that used to be the case. Last I heard, it was still a pretty prestigious cert to have. The test itself is pretty brutal, particularly the hands-on where they give you various real-world type problems to work through with actual equipment.

For the type of work I do, they tend to be fluff. It's something that the Windows admins like to get when they have very little actual experience and has carried over into Linux as well. Once you start getting up into the high-end Unix stuff, it tends to be less with resellers and independent consultants being the most likely to try for the certs. That and employees of those companies.

[niomosy]

It's common here for engineering profs here to give you the formulas you need(unless it's just a couple). Which IMO is the best. That makes life so much easier unlike the whole open book thing. Basically if you know what you're doing, you're fine. Open book tests here aren't like that here. I don't care what profs are suppose to do, that's how it works here.

Having the formulas would be pretty awesome. In many cases, formulas are my key weakness, which is why I tend to do poorly in math even once I finally understand how to do the math.

It's actually a small rant of mine, to be honest with much of the educational style tests. When are you ever truly in a situation where you're going to have to rattle math off the top of your head without benefit of other resources to fall back on? The profs remember this stuff because they're getting paid to teach it. Even then, I watched my Trig teacher have to sit for a second and recall things.

I don't usually care for the memorization game. I can do pretty decent at non-math memorization, though, so I do well on tests. As Zam was saying earlier, though, it's a cram/dump scenario. You shove a load of crap into your head so you can dump it out onto the test, then forget about it. In the end, you remember some stuff but not nearly as much. Plus who knows how much you actually learned that's pertinent to your career path, but that's another rant

[oldivor]

Having the formulas would be pretty awesome. In many cases, formulas are my key weakness, which is why I tend to do poorly in math even once I finally understand how to do the math. It's actually a small rant of mine, to be honest with much of the educational style tests. When are you ever truly in a situation where you're going to have to rattle math off the top of your head without benefit of other resources to fall back on? The profs remember this stuff because they're getting paid to teach it. Even then, I watched my Trig teacher have to sit for a second and recall things. I don't usually care for the memorization game. I can do pretty decent at non-math memorization, though, so I do well on tests. As Zam was saying earlier, though, it's a cram/dump scenario. You shove a load of crap into your head so you can dump it out onto the test, then forget about it. In the end, you remember some stuff but not nearly as much. Plus who knows how much you actually learned that's pertinent to your career path, but that's another rant

Yeah, plus if you're going to actually use something a lot you'll memorize it anyway, and it' silly to memorize stuff you'll never need. It seems like a lot of the prof nowadays don't teach you the concepts but just how to get the answer which pisses me off.

[Super_Donut_Man]

[niomosy]

Yeah, plus if you're going to actually use something a lot you'll memorize it anyway, and it' silly to memorize stuff you'll never need. It seems like a lot of the prof nowadays don't teach you the concepts but just how to get the answer which pisses me off.

I think that's always what they've done. That's why there's always been a noted disconnect between academia and the real world (and why we differentiate between then) It's also why I hear a lot of private universities advertising how their professors have real-world experience.

Let's face it, outside a few areas, most people realize that they're only going to get a small bit of knowledge that will actually be useful later. They're there for the piece of paper that many companies still want.

[mrcrow]

[moogieotter]

As an IT manager who is currently hiring, I dont give two poops about certs and having them will make me grill someone even more on the technical bits at the interview phase.

[niomosy]

As an IT manager who is currently hiring, I dont give two poops about certs and having them will make me grill someone even more on the technical bits at the interview phase.

A shame more managers don't do this.

[Hearafter]

Great. My cat has fleas.

[Super_Donut_Man]

Despite having an absolute hatred for the show dancing with the stars, it does provide attractive females dressed in almost nothing.

[Zamfir]

Great. My cat has fleas.

We told you to use the special soap immediately in the shower when you get home from work...

[Perfessor]

It terrifies the {censored} out of me as well, but apparently not enough so to motivate me. I sent the instructor an email, but my hopes are not high.

That just plain sucks.

[Super_Donut_Man]

Alarm didn't go off this morning, so I not only slept through my computer science final, but I didn't get up until 10PM. I am now extremely well rested and have nothing to do but be extremely frustrated at myself.

Happened once to me, except it turned out well. I was lucky. It was always my fear though, especially after a good night of drinking (got to be in the same state of mind as when you were studying, IMO).