What is it worth to book a gig?

[flip333]

Our 4 piece classic rock band has lots of fun playing.

 

I have been providing a small PA for our little bar band gigs. Small but still $1500. I have a larger nicer PA that is hard to carry, cost me $8000, and is a hassle to set up and run from stage.

 

The band would like to use this decent PA. There is a common mind-set that we all just bring what we can to make a band work.

 

In my thinking, this nicer PA will require more than 1/4 of $350 for a gig. I live 10 miles out of town, so band members don't like to drive to my house to haul it out of my basement.

 

When I suggested the big PA needs a cut of gig money (split the gig money 5 ways), the band members were very upset with me. I suggested that because I have read here and at other sites that that is a common arrangement.

 

One member has booked 4 jobs for us. Another has multiple gigs he says he can book.

 

That's the person who would like a 20% booking fee if I get money for the big PA. He thinks it is unreasonable to ask for PA compensation. Well, OK, he would cough up $5 per gig.

 

For now, I have agreed to provide the small PA. Its enough to do small bar gigs, and its fun. I still have to haul twice as much stuff as anyone else, but it is doable.

 

Do you guys who book jobs get paid for doing that? How much?

 

This issue has come up before, but I wanted to post it again because there are new people reading this, and also, some other members may have changed the way they do band business.

 

I just want a fair shake. So do the other guys in my band, but like most musicians, they think:

 

"I'll bring the donuts. You bring the $8000 PA. Jed will book some gigs. We're partners".

[Disco Cat]

I don't know what is normal in a band since I'm not in one, but logically that PA cost you a lot of money, money which they save by using yours. I say it's fair that the use of your PA is worth something reasonable, otherwise their attitude is saying "you deserve to have spent $8000 on that equipment, but we deserve to use that equipment for free."

 

If you wanted to let them use it for free then it's fine, but your purchase is serving them as much as it is you, and they ought to be willing to donate a little to you to help cover the cost, as well as your extra work in bringing it.

 

Suggest that they use none of your equipment and now they all have to pay to rent a system. Now what is fair?

 

Additionally, I think $350 per gig split 4 ways & using an $8000 PA is too low. You should ask for more because of the price of your equipemt. But if your music isn't impressive enough to be asking for more money then it's probably not worth it to be using an $8000 PA either.

[PJR]

It all comes down to what kind of relationship you have with your bandmates.

 

You need to hash it out with them and come up with something that is agreeable to all parties.

 

Bottomline...if you have been playing with these guys for a while, and have always split the gig $$ a certain way......a change may not be initially well received.

 

You need to tell them your concerns....and what the xtra work carrying the bigger PA means to you.

 

In my situation : I own all the PA gear ( several sized systems )

My wife and I do all the bookings and promotion.

 

We are a 4 pc Party rock band.

We always split the gig $$ evenly amongst the 4 members.

We do take Band $$ expenses off the top ( Advertising / mailing )

 

The one thing I ask and require from all members is that I don't get stuck loading and unloading the PA myself.

They are fine with this arrangement as is I....and for the most part have been very good with this.

 

You have to talk with them.......

 

Good Luck

PJR

[SanDiego333]

I guess it could come down to this: If they want to use your high-end PA, tell them to rent a comparable unit. Then, when they see the price, offer your's for $10 less. Why should you make the investment, and then get nothing in return? Doe's your bass player buy, and furnish, a guitar amp for you?

[flip333]

Ya know what someone looks like when you slip 'em some tabasco sauce?

 

That's what they would look like!

[THBv2.0]

I don't know your situation, playing level or anything else, but I'll tell you my situation.

 

I own the P.A. we use. I store it, haul it, set it up and tear it down. The others help with that as they see fit. Gig money is split 4 ways. Owning a PA ain't nothing if nobody shows up to play through it. Keep supplying your small rig if it's doing the job. If the others in you band want the bigger rig regardless of whether or not it's necessary, tell them you aren't willing to do all the work that goes along with it. If they want to use it bad enough, they'll help out. If not, no problem.

 

[slapjaw]

When we play a gig, I expect the band to show up at my house, and help with the PA. I receive a little extra for the PA. I used to supply all the MICs, and cables, but after a while that got kind of expensive. Now the other guys supply their own MICs and each carry extra cables. I still end up unloading back at my house.

[flip333]

Originally posted by THBv2.0 Gig money is split 4 ways. Owning a PA ain't nothing if nobody shows up to play through it. Keep supplying your small rig if it's doing the job. If the others in you band want the bigger rig regardless of whether or not it's necessary, tell them you aren't willing to do all the work that goes along with it. If they want to use it bad enough, they'll help out. If not, no problem.

 

Yea, I can make something work!

 

The other thing I requested is that if we need or want something extra like business cards, soundman, better lights, that is up to them to provide and not ask me to share in additional expenses.

(tobasco response).

 

Like slapjaw, I still have to unload at my house at the end of the night. Tough world. But at least the little PA is doable.

[Beachbum]

Tell the band you are going to sell your large PA system. Ask them if they want for the band to buy it.

[BlueStrat]

I'm like THB. I own the PA, and I look at it as part of my business. But any repairs come off the top.

 

But I have to ask you, what costs 8000 bucks?

 

I got a new Mackie CFX-20 board, 2 new JBL 15/horns, 2 JBL 18 subs (used), a new DBX crossover, a new QSC 1450 amp, a new QSC 850 for monitors, a 5 space rack, and 2 EV 12/horn monitors and a couple of Ramses monitors, all for about 3500 bucks.

[sventvkg]

In my 20 year experience a Band is VERY Rarely run equally between members and one or more members usually end up doing the brunt of the work. In My case, I get paid for it and they guys I play with know this up front and are fine with basically showing up with their personal gear and doing the gig..Not having to own or lug PA or book gigs..I ALWAYS Make more on my gigs because I do most of the work.

 

If I were you I would say, we can do the big PA but now we're splitting the gig 5 ways...The PA gets an equal cut. And if they say no, then no big PA but in my mind you should be getting a few bucks extra for owning and lugging the small PA as well.

[elbow]

 

Originally posted by sventvkg In my 20 year experience a Band is VERY Rarely run equally between members and one or more members usually end up doing the brunt of the work. In My case, I get paid for it and they guys I play with know this up front and are fine with basically showing up with their personal gear and doing the gig..Not having to own or lug PA or book gigs..I ALWAYS Make more on my gigs because I do most of the work. If I were you I would say, we can do the big PA but now we're splitting the gig 5 ways...The PA gets an equal cut. And if they say no, then no big PA but in my mind you should be getting a few bucks extra for owning and lugging the small PA as well.

 

 

I agree. PA should get a share or at least some cash.

[BeauNasty]

We have ALWAYS paid extra money to the dude who provides the PA at gigs. There are other bands in our area who don't pay their guy who owns the PA extra money for gigs, but if anything breaks or needs to be replaced, it is taken out of gig money before anyone in the band gets paid.

[salislore]

I am amazed at the people who own their own PA and let "The Band" use it for free. Then they even do the load in/load out by themselves! The mentality of "everyone in the band brings what they can to the table" is ridiculous. The people who thought of that way of doing things are the ones who don't have anything to bring. That is just being taken advantage of. I would never stand for that.

 

I agree with the person who said you should call and find out what the rental cost is for a comparable PA. Tell the band members that this is what they would pay if they had to rent one each night. Now, the extra split to 1/5 will look great compared to the rental cost.

 

I also agree that 1/5 of $350 ($70) is not near enough to warrant you bringing that one out. Guessing what your system is like, a comparable system would cost around $250-$300 a night around here.

 

Unfortunately, there are members in bands who do their part and members who don't. It's the same in my band. I do 95% of all the bookings, perform site visits, etc. but I haven't taken a dime for all the toll calls, time, and aggravation it takes to do it. Until now, I just decided that I would take a very little off the top to at least cover the phone bill expenses. The guys in my band have no problem with that. Especially considering that I am saving them 15% every time I book a gig.

 

By the way, in my band, the PA is owned by the band. We split the costs equally. We set up a 5 year depreciation schedule for the PA if anyone leaves within that time frame.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by salislore I am amazed at the people who own their own PA and let "The Band" use it for free. Then they even do the load in/load out by themselves! The mentality of "everyone in the band brings what they can to the table" is ridiculous. The people who thought of that way of doing things are the ones who don't have anything to bring. That is just being taken advantage of. I would never stand for that. I agree with the person who said you should call and find out what the rental cost is for a comparable PA. Tell the band members that this is what they would pay if they had to rent one each night. Now, the extra split to 1/5 will look great compared to the rental cost. I also agree that 1/5 of $350 ($70) is not near enough to warrant you bringing that one out. Guessing what your system is like, a comparable system would cost around $250-$300 a night around here. Unfortunately, there are members in bands who do their part and members who don't. It's the same in my band. I do 95% of all the bookings, perform site visits, etc. but I haven't taken a dime for all the toll calls, time, and aggravation it takes to do it. Until now, I just decided that I would take a very little off the top to at least cover the phone bill expenses. The guys in my band have no problem with that. Especially considering that I am saving them 15% every time I book a gig. By the way, in my band, the PA is owned by the band. We split the costs equally. We set up a 5 year depreciation schedule for the PA if anyone leaves within that time frame.

 

 

I don't charge my guys to use the pA, but I don't load it in and out by myself. They do almost all of it. And since it's in a band truck owned by myself and the drummer, it only gets moved into the bar and right back to the band truck, where it stays until ther next gig. Furthermore, they work for me, so I pay them a guarantee, but on higher paying gigs I often get 50% more than the rest of them, and that's on gigs where PA is provided, so it all works out. I also pay for the promo and the CDs, but I get all the profit. It may seem ridiculous to you, but I think every band ought to work out the policy they are comfortable with. Since my band works for me, I don't expect them to pay to use my equipment any more than UPS should take money out of the pockts of it's drivers for letting them use their trucks. As a business owner, I absorb the expense, but I take the risk, so I get a bigger share of the reward.

[flip333]

Thanks. I knew there were many opinions on this. It is good to see all the viewpoints and the average.

 

My best PA rig:

 

JBL SRX715 x 2 = $2100

A&H Mixwiz = $1000

Peavey sub x4 = $1100

Yamaha mons x 2 = $500

Madison mons x 2 = $400

Peavey 2600 amp = $530

QSC PLX 3402 amp= $900

Driverack PA = $400

31-band EQ x 2 = $350

B* feedback dest = $120

B* powered mixer =$300

audix d-6 =$200

mics,stands,cables= $500

***********************

$8400

 

I realize you can spend half this much and have nearly as good of a sound, but I wanted to have an excellent, reliable sound, so I went with the recommedations at the live sound board (after having made a few cheap ass purchases..)

 

Set up and run properly, it really sounds good.

 

Notice, this does not include my guitar rig. That is my own responsibility.

 

Also, I am amazed at myself salislore. Sometimes I feel like I have long ears and buck teeth.

[salislore]

Bluestrat:

 

Your situation is completely different. You own the business. You have a business model that you follow. You hire the players and pay a guarantee. This allows you, as you said, to often make 50% more than the other players.

 

I was strictly talking about a band situation where evertyone was considered equal members.

 

I just don't like to see people take advantage of others. One person taking all the financial risk for their band and not gaining anything extra for it is being taken advantage of.

[roabre999]

In our band I provide the PA. We are a 4 piece so we split the money 5 ways and i get two "shares"

[flip333]

robare knows how to do things:thu:

[flip333]

Please,

 

What do you think booking a gig is worth?

 

Is 20% right?

[salislore]

The standard take for a booking agent is 15% around my area.

 

Find out what the booking agent rates are in your area and use that as a reference.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by salislore The standard take for a booking agent is 15% around my area. Find out what the booking agent rates are in your area and use that as a reference.

 

 

That sounds fair to me. If I was in an equal partnership band and didn't have anything invested in PA gear, I think a 15% kickback to the guy who owns it is fair.

[BeauNasty]

 

Originally posted by flip333 Please, What do you think booking a gig is worth? Is 20% right?

 

 

The industry standard is usually 15% if you are a LICENSED booking agent. If you are some schmoe band member booking your act at the local strip mall sports bars, you could be a bit nicer to your buddies who are starving with you and just charge 5% to cover your gas and cell phone expenses.

[Kevin T]

Here's a question for a live local band if no one books the band does anything else you do really matter? I got stuck doing all booking for several bands and it eventually took all the fun of of it for me and ended seveal friendships. Those unprofesional idiots that do booking at bars are not worth the trouble. 20 unreturned calls 5 visits to be told I don't have my book with me come back later ! sheeesh. If the others in a band are'nt willing to share the miserable task of booking then pay for it 15% its worth it for me not to have to deal with the scum owners!

Lifes too short

 

Kevin T

[daddymack]

 

Originally posted by flip333 Please, What do you think booking a gig is worth? Is 20% right?

 

 

no more than 15%...more like 10%...however, booking takes time, but is strictly a 'band related' activity, and everyone in the band should at minimum be doing some of the legwork. I never took a cut for doing bookings, and for three years I booked 80% of our gigs.

 

We also have 2 PA systems at our disposal, and the one we use most of the time is owned by one member. We help load in load out, and I do half the set up and tear down (my rig is simple and small, so I have more 'free time', supposedly).

 

Repairs for the PA come out of the band 'kitty' which is where our tip money goes. The 'kitty' pays for that, promotional costs, our website, printing, etc.