How do you deal with drummers that drink too much before gigs?

[ChordGirl]

 

I really consider the day job the "hobby" but point taken. I really don't have endless hours to commit to breaking in a new guy. There is a great deal of interdependence playing in a 3-piece. I'd rather do just about anything that risk the thing falling over, ya know? I am still having a hard time with this "professional" attitude that you guys show wherein the musicianship and personality of the person and the logistics of retooling your band are insignificant to the annoyance of a member'e bad habit. My position is that firing him would not be my first choice, but I can't say that I wouldn't eventually throw in the towel on them. That is probably the main reason that I don't play weddings and top-40 anymore. I'd much rather build a gang that can play music than a roster of hot players who can pull "Colour my World" out of their ass after only one practice. Actually, the more I think of it, I think you guys are full of {censored} and I have my doubts as to your own musical credibility. I think you aren't being genuine when act like you'd bounce a guy like a cat who peed on the floor. You're talking internet tough. I get it. I'm on to you now.

 

 

Really? I'm not the most professional musician in the world, but I' rather play solo than play with someone who makes me sound like ass. I've put too much work into sounding good to let some selfish drunk bring me down. When you have worked with professionals, or at least those who care enough about what they're doing to maintain a certain level of competence, you don't have time to babysit those who'd rather drink themselves into oblivion than be mentally present at a gig.

 

Firing this guy doesn't have to be your first choice. You've already told him things need to change, which fell upon deaf ears. You could next try the recording your shows approach. Hope it works for ya, cuz if not.... you might have to take the more professional approach to music and fire him. I guess some of these people don't have as many problems finding replacements. That comes as a result of sounding professional in the first place.

 

O.K. After reading the latest posts, I'll add this. I understand and agree with that point of view that you need to be able to rely on each other. Just ask yourself how much time you're willing to put into this guy's rehab. If he knows you're never gonna kick him out, do you think he has any incentive to change? If you're not that interested in being a tightly knit group, why don't you just accept his poor playing and go with it?

 

Just my opinion. Do what's gonna work for you, and good luck.

[donnievaz]

Here's a different take. Fire him for being a {censored}ty drummer. If he was able to drink a six pack and play well, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

+1000 I just start to get loose around #4 (but I suck sober too )

[caveman]

"Your drinking is screwing up your life and the band. Don't give a damn if you don't see it, everybody else does. You can quit drinking and stay in the band or leave. It's your choice and your's alone. NO MORE CHANCES!"

 

Later somebody called and said he was passed out in the park and asked if I could come get him. I found him and hauled him off to detox one last time. They didn't want him again and pitched a bitch when I left him there.

 

The one thing I learned was that no amount of good intentions or heroics on your part will ever do a thing to save a drunk from himself. If they don't do it themselves, they'll keep on keeping on while dragging you down with them.

[bluesway]

 

Come to think of it... doesn't your bassist sometimes not shower? Yeah, you'd better fire his ass too. What if he starts to smell? {censored} that. In fact... sometimes the singer will stop between songs and want to go to the bathroom! what if you're on tour, and he wants you to pull over and take a whizz? Forget it. These guys sound like trouble. Just fire the whole band, sell your stuff, and send me the check for my advice. 'nuff said.

this is a little ridiculous. i know you're half-kidding and i understand what you're trying to say, but the truth is, if you are in a situation where the band starts escalating and getting more work, this problem will completely be the undermining factor and eventually wind up being more detrimental than just a few dropped sticks.

 

a band is a business. if i showed up for work drunk, was WARNED and continued to do so, i'd be fired. why do we take this forgiving attitude when it comes to music? i'll say it again: he's been spoken to. it's not getting better...in fact, he's in denial and refuses to address the problem. fire him.

 

i guess i'm a bastard

[vanlatte]

I There are different kinds of bands. I should have prefaced my statements with "In my kind of band...." If we were a bigger performing band, and the gigs were different, then my whole statement would be different. If you're a cover band, if you're a paid wedding band, etc... then yes. You should be sober, you should be on-time, and you'd damn well better play perfectly. If you're a rock-hard, party-hard band with a bunch of twenty-somethings (like us) just wanting to make a name for yourselves and get your music to the kids, then being a tightly knit group who cares for each other is important. At least it is to me. I care for those guys as bro's, and I would take a step back in the band if I knew in the long run we would be able to take many steps forward. I'm new to forum-speak... what does YYMV mean?

 

Your Milage May Vary

 

[wades_keys]

 

I've put too much work into sounding good to let some selfish drunk bring me down.? Just my opinion. Do what's gonna work for you, and good luck.

 

 

+10000 - If that happened to me live, and that was my friend doing the damage, then I'D quit the band.

 

I'd rather play alone in the bedroom then be subjected to that humiliation - hey if im gonna be humiliated its gonna be for the right reasons...

[RyanVanHalen]

Pffft. I thought it was supposed to be Pennywise from "It" but too many people told me it looks like something from ICP...so, its gone! Your Milage May Vary

 

I was pretty sure that's what you meant, but nothing's funny about IT. Everything's funny about ICP!

[BlueStrat]

 

Fire the guy. Not that I'm an expert, but the conventional wisdom is that there's usually no way to change substance abuse short of drastic action, like being fired. But even if that's not the best way, the drummer is still screwing up. You wouldn't keep a drummer who played badly sober, would you?

 

 

Yup. Don't waste your time trying to show him the error of his ways. Sounds like his wife isn't having any luck, so your chance at succes is slim to none. And besides, that isn't your business. Your business is to present the highest quality product you can in order to grow your business in a highly competitive market. What other job can you expect to keep after showing up drunk and performing poorly?

 

It's called the music business for a reason. Yeah, it's fun, and it's art, and all that. But the minute you agree to take money for it, and place yourself in a position where the guy providing you the opportunity is risking capital as well, it becomes a business transaction wherein you would do well to do your best to shine, and not make anyone regret hiring you.

[atabner]

 

It's called the music business for a reason. Yeah, it's fun, and it's art, and all that. But the minute you agree to take money for it, and place yourself in a position where the guy providing you the opportunity is risking capital as well, it becomes a business transaction wherein you would do well to do your best to shine, and not make anyone regret hiring you.

 

 

 

I think this is the crux of the issue. If you're being paid to play music, you damnwell better do it well. There aren't many second chances around, especially in a business this competitive.

 

However, ifyou're still at the "playing support for a mates group" or "having a jam at home" stage, then why not work on it. You might cost yourself a few chances/gigs, but you're unlikely to damage your reputation permanently.

[RyanVanHalen]

true.

if you're a pro, paid band, then remember business first.

 

So many bands in utah are like groups of brothers/families... I don't know how I could be in a band without being close to them. We like to hang out together when we're not jamming, we love to drink together, and we help each other out.

 

I like it that way.

[Terry Allan Hall]

I really consider the day job the "hobby" but point taken. I really don't have endless hours to commit to breaking in a new guy. There is a great deal of interdependence playing in a 3-piece. I'd rather do just about anything that risk the thing falling over, ya know? I am still having a hard time with this "professional" attitude that you guys show wherein the musicianship and personality of the person and the logistics of retooling your band are insignificant to the annoyance of a member'e bad habit. My position is that firing him would not be my first choice, but I can't say that I wouldn't eventually throw in the towel on them. That is probably the main reason that I don't play weddings and top-40 anymore. I'd much rather build a gang that can play music than a roster of hot players who can pull "Colour my World" out of their ass after only one practice. Actually, the more I think of it, I think you guys are full of {censored} and I have my doubts as to your own musical credibility. I think you aren't being genuine when act like you'd bounce a guy like a cat who peed on the floor. You're talking internet tough. I get it. I'm on to you now.

 

No, actually, I make it very clear when I hire 'em what is expected...no surprises...and if they still can't be professional, I fire 'em.

 

Just that simple.

[SpaceNorman]

 

I really consider the day job the "hobby" but point taken. I really don't have endless hours to commit to breaking in a new guy. There is a great deal of interdependence playing in a 3-piece. I'd rather do just about anything that risk the thing falling over, ya know? I am still having a hard time with this "professional" attitude that you guys show wherein the musicianship and personality of the person and the logistics of retooling your band are insignificant to the annoyance of a member'e bad habit. My position is that firing him would not be my first choice, but I can't say that I wouldn't eventually throw in the towel on them. That is probably the main reason that I don't play weddings and top-40 anymore. I'd much rather build a gang that can play music than a roster of hot players who can pull "Colour my World" out of their ass after only one practice. Actually, the more I think of it, I think you guys are full of {censored} and I have my doubts as to your own musical credibility. I think you aren't being genuine when act like you'd bounce a guy like a cat who peed on the floor. You're talking internet tough. I get it. I'm on to you now.

 

 

Cephus,

 

I think must of us who've given you the "fire him" advice are assuming that you've already let him know that his drinking is an issue for the rest of the band. It sure doesn't sound like we're talking about a guy who had one pop too many one night. Based on YOUR description of his behavior - it seems pretty clear he's got a substance abuse problem - and worse, based on your description, doesn't seem to have any intention on fixing it. If you're willing to invest time, money and even more precious - your energy into your music only to have it "pissed on" by a band mate who can't control himself - go for it. As for me - I've been there, done that - and know now that you can't help them that aren't interested in helping themselves. Be a friend and support the guy. But fire him from the band so that you can focus your energy on your music instead of wasting time on internet bulletin boards looking for a "keep everybody happy" for a situation that you yourself first identified as a problem. Sorry dude...you can't just wish drunks better.

[Sir Don]

Well I'm in a new band now, things are going very well. It just goes to show if you stick at it the cards might fall your way. Cheers.

[GreenAsJade]

 

Well I'm in a new band now, things are going very well. It just goes to show if you stick at it the cards might fall your way. Cheers.

 

 

Awesome stuff on your myspace, SD: looks like you drew all aces that deal! That girl can sing!

 

Let me know if/when you're playing out, I might come take a look!

 

GaJ

[Sir Don]

 

Awesome stuff on your myspace, SD: looks like you drew all aces that deal! That girl can sing! Let me know if/when you're playing out, I might come take a look! GaJ

 

 

Thanks for those kind words, yeah, she can sing alright. We all took it pretty easy for the demo just to get things right at minimal cost. Just a matter of time before we get a few gigs, you probably know how bloody hard it is to get in with promoters here. Cheers.

[Cavadge]

I know what you're going through...

 

We've been going through a similar thing with our keyboard/harp player. Shows up for practice already trashed, with a big-gulp-sized mug of booze on top of that. Once or twice he couldn't hardly walk or talk, and tripping on cables and knocking stuff over... ripped him a new one and sent him packing. Of course he thought we were picking on him and got all pissy about it.

 

We tried to talk to him reasonably about it. Didn't do any good. Told him if he showed up drunk just one more time he was done and wouldn't be invited back. That straightened him out for only the next couple of get togethers. Then he showed up with the big gulp again, although he was (almost) sober when he got there.

 

We kinda feel like hypocrites, since our bass player usually shows up for practice with a six pack of beer, and we like to blow a fattie after we get through the "work" part and just want to jam... however, the bass player shows up sober, and doesn't fall down and f-up the tunes after he has a few beers.

 

After this guy pretty much ruined every song at our last outdoor gig, we're of a mind to try once more to get him to understand that it isn't about getting seriously f-ed up and trying to play music, which seems to be his mindset. Not feeling too good about our chances with this. We'll very likely ditch him in the near future. Just don't see a way out of this if the person in question is in permanent denial. Damned shame, really - he blows a mean harp.

 

Steve

[Lee Knight]

Someone earlier said to fire him because he's a {censored}ty drummer. I agree...

 

Think about it. Who cares the whys or the hows. Let's say you have a great drummer, but when the sun goes down, for some reason he starts playing crappy... You don't say, "Well, he's a good drummer. It's just that whole sun going down thing." Like Jekyll and Hyde. We love the good Dr. Jekyll, but that Hyde character's an asshole. "Oh wait, they're the same guy."

 

When you need him to be a good drummer, he's a {censored}ty drummer. Simple. When I was at my peak of substance abuse many years ago, as a pro, even then... I never ever showed up with anything in my system. I did push the boundaries. I suffered badly from the night before even at 9pm that next night, but I would never dream of showing up high, drunk, or in any other way incapacitated. I'm 48 now and those days are long behind me, but the memory lingers. If you're going to be an asshole, do it on your own time.

 

I would have been canned. I've always played with close friends, but they would've regretfully let me go. I sure as hell knew it too. I wouldn't expect anyone to put up with me sucking, regardless of the why.

 

My advice is to put that way. "You suck when you drink. Hold off drinking until after the show... if you can't, well, we can't have a drummer that sucks in the band."

 

It is black and white.

[rockerdiva]

sorry, deleted it -

[Inigomontoya]

You get ONE, that's it! For most of the gigs I play, I would be booted off instantly after the first gig that I made a drunken fool of myself at. Seemless transitions are not a problem for most groups when they ditch members, I've been the "guy coming in" after replacing a problem member and I've never experienced a situation where the bandleader regretted booting the "no show", "too drunk", "cant remember parts", "plays too loud and fast" drummer.

 

Especially with an unapologetic attitude towards the botched performance (aww i do this all the time, i can handle it, youre making way too big of a deal out of this), I would say SEE YA LATER. Improper hygeine and even attitude problems are much more manageable than someone who sucks all over the stage because they can't stop themselves from getting {censored}ed. At least in my neck of the woods there are plenty of people who can hop in when someone needs to get the boot so keeping someone on that makes the band sound like amateur night just does not happen.

[Geno_xl]

record the show or practice and play it back for him. You can't from the truth when it's right in front of your eyes.

 

If that doesn't work, fire him for your sake and for his.

[deepblue]

 

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, he is a good drummer when he gets it together, and the prospect of going through auditions for a third time in just over a year makes me just want to give up.

 

 

That's the way the game is stacked. It's supposed to be unbearably difficult so as to weed out the undedicated and wannabe's

[EMDMUSIC]

Simple question to ask him. Do you care about making good music or drinking more? Thankfully for us our drummer is sober. It's never an issue. The rest of the band like to drink allot. but were grown-ups that know there is a time and a place for it. AFTER YOU PLAY. We all try to have maybe a drink before hand to loosen up. On tour the temptation to drink allot is high but after a couple weeks of free beer every night it gets old and it's easy to say no.