Members Roy Brooks Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Get another drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 I'd hate to live under an authoritarian gov't. Unlike everyone else here, I don't think that one flaw displaces all the positives that a player may have. firing him without attempting to straighten him out is not the way I operate. I would be inclined to hurt his ego. "Dude, you suck when you drink. You were missing cues and stops and you play like a GIRL!" I think musicians naturally get into the habit of making gig night a party night and it sometimes works. I think that if a person are a musician, they'd care more about it making them sound {censored}ty than how it impacts you or your professionalism or the way the band looks. Like, an alkie can say "the band sucks because the guitar was too loud" or something like that. To say "YOU sound like {censored}." is something they may take more to heart. This board seems to be populated by people who have a line of musicians around the block waiting to play with them. In my corner of the world, if I cared enough about a person to start a band relationship with them, then I care too much to just cut them off for a single incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 This board seems to be populated by people who have a line of musicians around the block waiting to play with them. In my corner of the world, if I cared enough about a person to start a band relationship with them, then I care too much to just cut them off for a single incident. He's in denial - ever dealt with someone like that? It's like talking to a wall - he'll get defensive and start making excuses - "everyone's just picking on me cuz I drink and you don't". This is why I recommend taping shows - if you do want to try and help, you show him the tape. If he makes excuses, blames other factors or whatever, then what are you going to do, get into a big drama fest or just do the right thing and {censored} can him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 If he makes excuses, blames other factors or whatever, then what are you going to do, get into a big drama fest or just do the right thing and {censored} can him? I'd do the same thing that got me in the music biz in the first place - I'd play it by ear. Which is the main reason why I disagree with the tough talk in this thread. I think a band is more than an assembly line job. I haven't played with easily replaceable drones. I really can't imagine what sort of gigs you guys have where you can just put your calendar on hold and go find another guy - especially a drummer - and performs some kind of immacualte, seemless transition. That sounds like a ton of work to me and I'd rather try to make fun of the guy to get through to him. THAT is what avoids the drama. If you'd rather be passive agressive and fire him with an email so you don;'t have to deal with him again, then you've obviously loved and lost more than I have. I still have hope for my bandmates. I did fire a drummer a few years ago. It was over politics. No lie. It sucked for 2 years playing with 3 other drummers. I recently reconciled with him and we played a gig. I still hated him, so he's fired again. But that isn't business. It's 100% personal. It's my band and if I don't like the guy, I can't play with him - talent or no. But if the guy is good and I get along with him, I'd be a friend and try and straighten him out. If he goes the way you describe, then he really ain't my pal after all and it's easy to cut him loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyanVanHalen Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 I honestly think you're right. Take what you know about him, and use it. If he's a drummer, he's probably got an ego. Appeal to what you know will work. I've got some of the same issues with my group, and I like that approach. He's my drummer, but Andrew is also one of my really good friends. If you're friends, even if you're just honest good people, you should be able to deal out criticism in a professional manner, and he should know you're not attacking HIM, just his performance issues. rock on! Don't let these tough guys break your spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 fire him. period. why are you even asking this question? do you think it'll get better if you guys start touring? i understand you're trying to (1) be a decent guy and (2) NOT throw away all the work you've done with him over the past [insert period of time here], but it's counterproductive. 'sounds cold, but it's really the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRUMGUY007 Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Always the drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 If it were a regular gig, I'd give him a second chance. Since it was an audition gig for a club and you were in a position to impress, I'd can him. That was irresponsible, plain and simple. Kick his sorry a## on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyanVanHalen Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Come to think of it... doesn't your bassist sometimes not shower? Yeah, you'd better fire his ass too. What if he starts to smell? {censored} that. In fact... sometimes the singer will stop between songs and want to go to the bathroom! what if you're on tour, and he wants you to pull over and take a whizz? Forget it. These guys sound like trouble. Just fire the whole band, sell your stuff, and send me the check for my advice. 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 I'd do the same thing that got me in the music biz in the first place - I'd play it by ear. That's good advice - and why I suggested taping/videoing shows to get him to maybe come around. It really depends on a lot of factors that only the original poster knows. If it were me, I would at least go the route of showing him how he sucks on video - if he still is in denial then I'd find someone else to play drums. But I'm also cynical and based on this cats behavior, he aint comin around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cletus Spuckle Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Here's a different take. Fire him for being a {censored}ty drummer. If he was able to drink a six pack and play well, this wouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Come to think of it... doesn't your bassist sometimes not shower? Yeah, you'd better fire his ass too. What if he starts to smell? {censored} that. In fact... sometimes the singer will stop between songs and want to go to the bathroom! what if you're on tour, and he wants you to pull over and take a whizz? Forget it. These guys sound like trouble. Just fire the whole band, sell your stuff, and send me the check for my advice. 'nuff said. So, you are comparing all of those things to this: ... very sloppy (dropping sticks, missing cues and endings). He's starting to do this more and more often at rehearsal, even his wife thinks he's drinking too much. Even if you are just trying to be funny, it still sounds stupid. I mean we all know that nobody is perfect and we always have to put up with something, but the things you point out are just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shniggens Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 I'm confused . . . He brought beer to the bar? Is that legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyanVanHalen Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Ha ha ha haSeriously. nobody pees without permission in my band. I'll slit their throats. I'm just saying..... he was good at one point? don't kick him out. In my experience, there's probably something else going on his life. Consider the fact that he may need your help, not your boot in his ass. What drives a man to disregard the feelings of those around him and waste his cash while he tries to numb his brain from something Rock and Roll saves lives. Use your power of friendship, use your music as a medium to recovery. You have to confront him. You need to let him know his expectations. But a band is a family.... let this be a moment for everyone to get together and show their support for him. Family is there in the good times, and they're also there in the harder times. Stick it out. If you help him out, you'll not only be benefitting your band, you'll also be helping out his family at home, his coworkers, everyone he deals with. Sigh. don't get me wrong. You can't solve his problem, but something tells me that not many have even bothered to find out where the problem is stemming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 How do you deal with a drummer that drinks too much before a gig? The most effective approach is to FIRE 'em! I don't deal with drunks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sir Don Posted March 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 Well most of these replies are pretty useful. He is going through some hard times, he's been out of work for about three months, moved in with his "true love" who he seems to be living off. I get the impression he's comfortable with what he has got and does not want to make a change in his life. The thing is he's a really good, solid drummer, never misses rehearsals or gigs but just drinks too much before and during both. He has no ego but wants to party at every opportunity. The bass player is completely the opposite, she's studying jazz at the Adelaide Conservatorium, very serious about what she is doing but fun at the same time. We have another rehearsal tonight (Tuesday), I'll see what comes of it, the vocalist and bass player have not spoken to me about the other night as at the time of writing this. Thanks for all advice given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 I'd do the same thing that got me in the music biz in the first place - I'd play it by ear.Which is the main reason why I disagree with the tough talk in this thread. I think a band is more than an assembly line job. I haven't played with easily replaceable drones. I really can't imagine what sort of gigs you guys have where you can just put your calendar on hold and go find another guy - especially a drummer - and performs some kind of immacualte, seemless transition. That sounds like a ton of work to me and I'd rather try to make fun of the guy to get through to him. THAT is what avoids the drama. If you'd rather be passive agressive and fire him with an email so you don;'t have to deal with him again, then you've obviously loved and lost more than I have. I still have hope for my bandmates.I did fire a drummer a few years ago. It was over politics. No lie. It sucked for 2 years playing with 3 other drummers. I recently reconciled with him and we played a gig. I still hated him, so he's fired again. But that isn't business. It's 100% personal. It's my band and if I don't like the guy, I can't play with him - talent or no. But if the guy is good and I get along with him, I'd be a friend and try and straighten him out. If he goes the way you describe, then he really ain't my pal after all and it's easy to cut him loose. Well, cephus, if you're a musician as a hobby, that's fine...otoh, many of us are professionals, and we will only work with musicians who can act professional...drunk onstage is very unprofessional, and I don't tolerate it. To work w/ me, you do not drink or use any mind-altering substance until after the rehearsal or gig...period. No exceptions, ever. If this is not to the musician's liking, he/she can gig elsewhere...I pay my rhythm sections well enough that I have plenty of folks who'll cheerfully follow this simple, professional rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 Well, cephus, if you're a musician as a hobby, that's fine...otoh, many of us are professionals. I really consider the day job the "hobby" but point taken. I really don't have endless hours to commit to breaking in a new guy. There is a great deal of interdependence playing in a 3-piece. I'd rather do just about anything that risk the thing falling over, ya know? I am still having a hard time with this "professional" attitude that you guys show wherein the musicianship and personality of the person and the logistics of retooling your band are insignificant to the annoyance of a member'e bad habit. My position is that firing him would not be my first choice, but I can't say that I wouldn't eventually throw in the towel on them. That is probably the main reason that I don't play weddings and top-40 anymore. I'd much rather build a gang that can play music than a roster of hot players who can pull "Colour my World" out of their ass after only one practice. Actually, the more I think of it, I think you guys are full of {censored} and I have my doubts as to your own musical credibility. I think you aren't being genuine when act like you'd bounce a guy like a cat who peed on the floor. You're talking internet tough. I get it. I'm on to you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 Sigh. don't get me wrong. You can't solve his problem, but something tells me that not many have even bothered to find out where the problem is stemming from. Bonus points for caring more than a lot of people. In my experience the attitude from Band B in my examples above have been more of the rule, with the "Caring, brotherly love" thing the exception. YYMV, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ...colin Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 The trouble is he can't see that this is becoming a problem no matter what I say to him, I've known him for about two years and it's becoming worse. Short of kicking him out of the band (we've had two lineup changes in the last twelve months) I am at loss to deal with this. Any suggestions? When I was having problems with my old drummer, I bought an airsoft gun. That ended badly, however. So I would suggest looking for a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 I agree with the video tape idea. He is in denial and you won't be able to help him unless you can see what he's turning into. I've got a drummer that drinks a lot, but he's still solid even after half a bottle of wiskey. I {censored} you not. He calls himself the human metronome and he is. The problem is that after practice he continues to drink and gets so bad that he's a menace to himself and everyone else on the road. And by that time it's almost impossible to get the keys from him. Luckily he's easy to trick so he's not gotten a DUI or killed anybody yet. But I do worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 I have to agree with cephus about some posters here a little quick on the draw to fire the guy. It's really hard finding new band members and I don't understand how others can act otherwise. Not to mention that even when you find someone that might fit you still have a period of teaching him/her the songs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyanVanHalen Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 I'm the strange bird, coming from the guy with the clown avatar. Seen ICP much lately? lollers! There are different kinds of bands. I should have prefaced my statements with "In my kind of band...." If we were a bigger performing band, and the gigs were different, then my whole statement would be different. If you're a cover band, if you're a paid wedding band, etc... then yes. You should be sober, you should be on-time, and you'd damn well better play perfectly. If you're a rock-hard, party-hard band with a bunch of twenty-somethings (like us) just wanting to make a name for yourselves and get your music to the kids, then being a tightly knit group who cares for each other is important. At least it is to me. I care for those guys as bro's, and I would take a step back in the band if I knew in the long run we would be able to take many steps forward. I'm new to forum-speak... what does YYMV mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spdolan Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 depends who's buying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyanVanHalen Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 depends who's buying yeah.... AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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