Sim vs Amp: Can you tell the difference?

[ggm1960]

 

But can we agree that if you don't have alot of money to spend on the really pricey tube stuff, if you are a teenager or college student, or hell, most musicians, or you need 20 different amp sounds for a particular project and don't have a huge studio budget, a POD is a great replacement, not the same thing, but pretty damn good, especially for the money?

 

 

I'd probably switch to using a POD for live performance in a heartbeat if I could convince the drummer to switch to an electronic set. The reason I say probably is because I haven't actually tried a POD.

 

I did recently get the Line 6 Toneport KB37 however which is sort of like a USB port POD with a keyboard. Although I bought the thing mainly to use the keyboard in the comfort of my easy chair at home, there's an extremely good chance I'll try the guitar input on a recording soon.

[wades_keys]

 

But can we agree that if you don't have alot of money to spend on the really pricey tube stuff, if you are a teenager or college student, or hell, most musicians, or you need 20 different amp sounds for a particular project and don't have a huge studio budget, a POD is a great replacement, not the same thing, but pretty damn good, especially for the money?

 

That's it - 100%. A class A amp is a one trick pony, sonically.

 

A dialled in tube amp tends to have the same tone, from song to song. A good or even great tone, sure, but not always the appropriate tone for different genres.

 

Live, no one is going to hear the difference between it and tubes IF you use it as a preamp and not a direct box into the PA.

 

Being able to go from a Class A type tone to a recto tone, to a JMP/Plexi tone at the tap of a switch is a real breath of fresh air from the sameness, and can make your band stand out.

 

I just don't get the tone snob thing for a live setting - most times you're forcing YOUR tone onto a cover song, which is a different tone than the recording used, even if it's a good tone. Rolling back the volume on the marshall ain't gonna give you a fender blackface/funk tone - the POD will sound better if you need to go from VH crunch to blackface velvet instantly in a live setting.

 

How many Divided by 13 amps do you see on stage? I rest my case - it's one of the most recorded amps around right now, but live, those acts are using entirely different rigs. IMO you're foolish to bring a single ended class A amp on stage - too delicate....

[MrKnobs]

 

It was never stated what amp it was. I heard what is most likely a Strat but could have almost been a solid body Rickenbacker with a touch of reverb. How's it sound with a Les Paul?.

 

 

If you're talking about the clip I posted, it's a PRS through a Bad Cat CubII - played by David Grissom.

 

That clip inspired me to go down to our local boutique amp store and try out a CubII for myself. Realizing that tone is partly in the fingers and Dave's fingers are certainly more skilled than mine, I carefully learned the first part of that little composition as close to the recording as I could.

 

To my surprise, using the identical gear, I was able to play those simple parts with a sound/tone/vibe that was nearly indistinguishable from the clip. I took several friends with me and we were all astonished.

 

I bought the amp and it's my favorite amp currently. It sounds somewhat different with my Strat played through it, but in a good way.

 

Terry D.

[ggm1960]

If you're talking about the clip I posted, it's a PRS through a Bad Cat CubII - played by David Grissom. That clip inspired me to go down to our local boutique amp store and try out a CubII for myself. Realizing that tone is partly in the fingers and Dave's fingers are certainly more skilled than mine, I carefully learned the first part of that little composition as close to the recording as I could. To my surprise, using the identical gear, I was able to play those simple parts with a sound/tone/vibe that was nearly indistinguishable from the clip. I took several friends with me and we were all astonished. I bought the amp and it's my favorite amp currently. It sounds somewhat different with my Strat played through it, but in a good way. Terry D.

 

 

David Grissom is definitely awesome, I first saw him years ago playing with Joe Ely on an IPTV tribute to Buddy Holly.

 

I do find your story inspiring, it's always been a great feeling to set out and achieve a musical goal.

[cooterbrown]

Yeah, but you have to admit, it's a pain in the ass changing tubes every 45 minutes. I heard that that's why 45 minute sets became standard back in the old days. They had to change their tubes, so they took a break.

 

Your t.i.c. is duly noted.

 

But seriously, My Rivera is about 12 years old, and has needed only one tube overhaul. Those factory-spec Svetlana EL34's are pretty tough.

[wades_keys]

The only cat I've heard of having to change tubes every 45 minutes was EVH when he was variac'ing his Marshalls.

On the 1984 tour, he had many marshalls offstage, on stanndby, and a tech with a shopping cart full of tubes swapping em out in real time.

That's probably why he went to stock amps afterwards...

[Lee Flier]

I've changed tubes in my amps on occasion just out of curiosity, to see what effect it had on the tone to put different tubes in. But that's been out of choice. Usually, tubes last for years. None of my tube amps are fragile at all; they've held up to all sorts of abuse for a long time (my Ampeg once fell out of the back of the van and rolled about 20 feet - I picked it up and plugged it in after that and it was fine... still used it for the gig that night and didn't even have to change a tube... that was 25 years ago and I still have that amp).

[wades_keys]

Yeah, tubes if biased correctly and not subject to extreme shock, can and have lasted over 40 years.

 

Guitar amps tend to bias tubes pretty hot - you can get cathode boil-off and all kinds of early failure mode issues, but it's all about the tone, baby.

 

To be honest, my personal philosophy is the lighter, the better - tube or no tube, for me it's gotta be easy to move and setup, and sonically flexible to cover the types of gigs I'm going for.

 

Other players, particularly blues and some forms of punk/indie - are more interested in getting one great tone to use throughout - I can dig that too.

[pickinatit]

I gigged with my Sunn Solarus on and off from 1969 until about 1982 give or take a year. (Back and fourth every gig and every rehearsal I never left it anywhere). Never changed a tube until about 1985. My then three year old son knocked my whole rig over (Amp head sitting on top of it's 2 x 12 cab). That fall of about three feet onto the concrete floor "disabled" my power tubes. I replaced them with a pair of Mullards that I found at our local Ma-Pa type hardware store. Just plugged them in there and went. (I didn't know anything about the need to have "matched pairs" or the amp "re-biased" back then. They are still in that amp today, twenty three
years later. Only other maintainance that amp has ever had is two summers ago, replace a couple capacitors and installed a s/s rectifier.

As far as tone and a few of the "one trick pony" comments. I'll admit that I play mostly clean because the 40 watt Solarus peels paint off the walls long before you get significant tube overdrive. But it makes a terrific bass amp head and can also peel fruit with brightness and treble when dialed the other way.

[cooterbrown]

 

The only cat I've heard of having to change tubes every 45 minutes was EVH when he was variac'ing his Marshalls.

 

 

Most of that was urban legend...provided by EVH.

He's always full of {censored}. "I turn the power load way up, and just watch the tubes melt."...whatever, dude.

Totally contrary to what he claimed...he actually used the variac to *underpower* his amps, to get that crunch and sag so prominent in his tone.

Dude I knew in California showed me that trick.

He used a 100w JMP hooked to a variac...he dialed it down to about 80 volts, and by gosh...there was the famous "brown sound".

[wades_keys]

Most of that was urban legend...provided by EVH. He's always full of {censored}. "I turn the power load way up, and just watch the tubes melt."...whatever, dude. Totally contrary to what he claimed...he actually used the variac to *underpower* his amps, to get that crunch and sag so prominent in his tone. Dude I knew in California showed me that trick. He used a 100w JMP hooked to a variac...he dialed it down to about 80 volts, and by gosh...there was the famous "brown sound".

 

 

Yeah, you underpower the tubes - I knew that - you're right though, he used to BS the other way....

 

He also used to claim Jose Arredondo modded his amp - patently false, but Jose didn't object cuz he got tons of biz from it.

 

Underpowering is not so good on your tubes either - power amp tubes in particular.

[strathound]

Ok, I have an entry into this little debate. In our featured song on ReverbNation, one guitar is playing through a Fender Vibrolux and the other is playing through a Line6 combo. Can you tell which is which?

Rhythm guitar is panned left and the lead guitar is panned right.

Here's the link:

http://www.reverbnation.com/mikeandthemajestics

Song: Quitter Never Wins

First correct answer gets a free T-shirt .... when we get round to ordering the T-shirts. Simply guess which guitar is playing through the Line6 amp, lead or rhythm.

[GreenAsJade]

I can barely, if at all, hear the rhythm guitar in Quitter Never Wins

 

The lead has a nice tone, though somewhat "hard". As if it's all too compressed or something: no tonal variation through the dynamics (and not much dynamics).

 

The psychology of this tells me that since the lead has a nice tone, and you're asking the question, then it must be the Line6

 

GaJ

[strathound]

I can barely, if at all, hear the rhythm guitar in Quitter Never Wins The lead has a nice tone, though somewhat "hard". As if it's all too compressed or something: no tonal variation through the dynamics (and not much dynamics). The psychology of this tells me that since the lead has a nice tone, and you're asking the question, then it must be the Line6 GaJ

You are correct sir. Congrats. Scott (aka SH3MP around here) sold his Super a while back but I keep roping him in to play blues with us. So he borrowed his son's Line6 combo for the show. I'm really surprised at how well it sounded. As for the dynamics, I hear dynamics. If you listen when I'm singing, you'll still hear riffs in the background, he's just turned down. So he brings it up for the solos and then levels it back off during the vocals.

[GreenAsJade]

Right - I agree there are some, much like turning the volume knob between sections.

 

I was really referring to dynamics during play: hard struck notes, decays etc ... the lack of those and tonal variation that might or might not be there during them.

 

I seriously look forwards to a Majestics T-shirt! Your logo will be great on a T-Shirt!

 

Cheers,

 

GaJ

[ggm1960]

If you have a rig that you are 100% satisfied with, you are probably doing better than most others. I congratulate you.

 

Yep, it's safe to say 99.9% and it only took 30 years to find it. Of course, it didn't exist when I began looking for it!

 

The only thing I would like to change at this point would be to replace the RP2000 pedal with a newer Digitech GNX version.

[Electric Catfish]

Your t.i.c. is duly noted. But seriously, My Rivera is about 12 years old, and has needed only one tube overhaul. Those factory-spec Svetlana EL34's are pretty tough.

I'm not sure what "t.i.c." means, but I was just joking. Whenever I get a new (old) amp, I have the tubes changed, and that's generally the last time they get changed.

I've been running the same tubes in my Bassman for a couple of years now. My Pro Jr., 4 or 5. I've never had a tube die on me, except one time when one had wiggled loose, and I didn't check it before powering up.

All the "tube amps are unreliable" crap is just 40+ year holdover of propaganda from people selling solid states.

[strathound]

Right - I agree there are some, much like turning the volume knob between sections. I was really referring to dynamics during play: hard struck notes, decays etc ... the lack of those and tonal variation that might or might not be there during them. I seriously look forwards to a Majestics T-shirt! Your logo will be great on a T-Shirt! Cheers, GaJ

Ok, cool. Send me a PM with a meaningful title (You owe me a Tshirt), so I remember.

I agree. That logo will look cool on a Tshirt. And on the back I'm going to put two words ... KING ME.

As an interesting side note, I have Google images to thank for that thing. I simple googled for "crown" and paged through several pages of images until I saw this one for a bottle of Nitros Oxide used in dragsters. They had a killer crown with the flames on it. So I stole it for my logo. I just wish I had a higher resolution version of the image. As you make it bigger, it begins to pixelate.

[strathound]

Right - I agree there are some, much like turning the volume knob between sections. I was really referring to dynamics during play: hard struck notes, decays etc ... the lack of those and tonal variation that might or might not be there during them.

 

 

You know I was listening to it again and I think I squashed it in post processing some too. I loaded the wave file in Cubase and tweaked the eq a bit. The bass was a little too loud. And we were picking up the right main more than the left main. So after a few tweaks, I loaded it into Reason and used the mastering tool there to squash it a bit.

[ggm1960]

I loaded it into Reason and used the mastering tool there to squash it a bit.

 

 

You loaded a whole song file into Reason??? I didn't know you could do that?

[BluesCat58]

it's obviously "edge of the night" too steady - so sting or response to attack variation...