Transcribing disagreements with the guitar parts

[cromulent]

So the band is trying to learn a new song, and me and the other guitar player are having disagreements about a certain chord progression in the bridge. Of course, I think I'm right, and he think he's right, and we're having trouble compromising because we're both probably too stubborn for our own good.

 

How do you go about meeting in the middle? Or should you stand your ground even if it results in a big fight over some stupid song?

[indigoguy]

Why not just try it both ways and see which sounds best

[NyteOwl]

In a situation like that I try to find a tab on-line, but that's not always the best answer. I've come across a lot of tabs that are so far off the mark it's ridiculous...

[MartinC]

Get software like "the amazing slow downer" and slow down the part-or if you know someone who owns the new version of melodyne, you can pick the music apart and you'll probably find the answer. Or upload a link-someone probably knows the part already. Sometimes guitar parts can be tricky in that you could be dealing with different tunings or capos. Listen for the timbre of open strings in the part, or identify the lowest note played-this could give you clues to the actual voicings.

[Kramerguy]

I've actually had this disagreement with my ex-bass player. He used internet tab to learn songs.... I used my ears.

 

Needless to say, I was right every time. Didn't stop him from arguing at every practice though. I think the best way is to name the song on a forum like this, or even the guitar forum and which part, list the two ways you guys are playing it, and I'm sure the folks here would steer you in the correct direction.

[alcohol]

Tabs and published transcriptions are not to be relied on.

 

I've had these disagreements myself with other musicians in the band. I look forward to them. I love it when I'm right, I learn something when I'm wrong.

 

What we do to come to an agreement is play along with the recording and listen to which interpretation sounds the best, and if we still disagree we let another band member make the decision.

[ggm1960]

This reminds me of a time I went to audition with a band well over 20 years ago. If I remember correctly the song we were trying to do was 'Beast of Burden' by the Stones and I got into an argument about the chord progression with the bass player.

That pretty much ruined my chance of joining that group but I didn't spend much time fretting over that, the guy was wrong!

 

These days, of course, the amount of resources available (to guitarists in particular) is staggering. Unless you're playing some way out obscure stuff there's most likely a professional transcription of most songs available. In lieu of that (or perhaps in addition to) you can use almost any sequencer program to loop sections of a song and/or slow it down, change key, etc...

 

For chord progressions I find I can usually trust the chord charts in a published sheet music source but when it comes to learning a lead section I often refer to the transcription, but to really nail it down I have to loop it in Sonar until I'm satisfied with the way I'm doing it.

[mstreck]

I've argued with our bass player over things like this. Of course, I've always been wrong... even when published music (and other musicians) confirm that I'm not.

[BlueStrat]

I saw a band once play "Hold On Loosely", where the intro is barred E-E/Eb bass-D- D/C#bass. But the guy was playing E-Eb chord-D-C sharp chord. It sounded like ass. I asked the guy if he'd tried holding the E and lowering just the root, and likewise with the D, and he said "Oh, no, man, I listened to the record and this is how they do it!"

[ggm1960]

I saw a band once play "Hold On Loosely", where the intro is barred E-E/Eb bass-D- D/C#bass. But the guy was playing E-Eb chord-D-C sharp chord. It sounded like ass. I asked the guy if he'd tried holding the E and lowering just the root, and likewise with the D, and he said "Oh, no, man, I listened to the record and this is how they do it!"

 

They're probably still doing it that way.

[mstreck]

I remember, on more than one occasion, I've heard people play something incorrectly and - when corrected - declare: "well, that's how they should have played it"

 

[cooterbrown]

 

So the band is trying to learn a new song, and me and the other guitar player are having disagreements about a certain chord progression in the bridge. Of course, I think I'm right, and he think he's right, and we're having trouble compromising because we're both probably too stubborn for our own good. How do you go about meeting in the middle? Or should you stand your ground even if it results in a big fight over some stupid song?

 

 

 

What is the song?

There are plenty of people here who could transcribe it correctly, for you.

[cromulent]

 

What is the song? There are plenty of people here who could transcribe it correctly, for you.

 

Forever by The Beach Boys.

[deepblue]

An E major to a C# major, then back to rest of the verse

[js1]

Many people that create internet tabs are those least musically equipped to do so. I've gone through sessions where we've auditioned guitarists, and you sure can tell which ones use tabs to learn - they all make exactly the same mistakes.

 

The slowdown software approach is the best. Put yourself through the pain of figuring stuff out, and you WILL get better at it.

 

As to your original question, you could record both of you playing the song along with the original recording. The wrong part will sound more wrong...

 

js

[S.L.B.]

I saw a band once play "Hold On Loosely", where the intro is barred E-E/Eb bass-D- D/C#bass. But the guy was playing E-Eb chord-D-C sharp chord. It sounded like ass. I asked the guy if he'd tried holding the E and lowering just the root, and likewise with the D, and he said "Oh, no, man, I listened to the record and this is how they do it!"

 

I think I've seen that band.....in about 4 different states..........I guess its a common mistake But your right it sounds like ass, and really with that song there is not a good excuse for not getting it right.

[cooterbrown]

I think I've seen that band.....in about 4 different states..........I guess its a common mistake But your right it sounds like ass, and really with that song there is not a good excuse for not getting it right.

 

 

I can't even *imagine* how people simply can't hear they're playing it wrong.

Do they think to themselves while listening; "oh yeah...they just slide down in half steps" and then play that and say "...that sounds good."?

 

Seriously, these people have no business playing an instrument if they're old enough to play in bars.

 

Reminds me of some doofus I saw playing the melody of "Brown-Eyed Girl" in parallel fifths - in the key of E (as a dropped vocal transposition!)

 

Oh, holy {censored}... that sounded awful.

 

That band had a girl "backup singer" who's "harmony part" was doubling the lead one octave up. She also chain-smoked onstage, and would drawl "...awwwwl ryyte!" after every song.

[ggm1960]

Many people that create internet tabs are those least musically equipped to do so.

 

Oh yeah. I remember clear back in the mid 90s (back when you went to HC for the guitar tabs) I wanted to learn Grateful Dead 'Touch Of Gray'. I downloaded the tab from HC's OLGA and several other sites. It was the same transcription at each place and it was hideously wrong.

 

So...I sat down and transcribed the song out from the CD including the lead sections. I went to post it back to OLGA and the other sites and they wouldn't take it because by then they were being harassed by EMI, BMI, RIAA or whoever it is that was harassing them over posting tab.

 

I went back to look at that tab occasionally for a while after that and they always had the same {censored} tab that was all wrong!

[6StringSling]

 

There are plenty of people here who could transcribe it correctly, for you.

 

Just out of curiosity, if "Internet tabs" are so frowned upon, then wouldn't it make sense that since this is also an Internet site that any tab posted here should also be looked at askance? Or does being a member of this forum automatically make your transcriptions legit?

 

Side note to the OP: Your screen name really embiggens you.

[wagdog]

I've found some excellent tabs on the 'net, some not so excellent. I think they're good as a way to get in the ballpark, but that's about it. Some are pretty damn close, others not so much.

 

Tabs, internet or otherwise, should not be relied on to be 100% accurate.

 

I remember wearing out my led zep 1 record, skipping the needle back, over and over... then I got a tape deck, and things got better.

[Funkwire]

You don't need to download any slowdown programs, you already have the capability in Windows Media Player (not to dis our Apple-using members). Click on View>Enhancements>Play Speed Settings. You can slow it down to half speed without affecting the pitch. It comes in very handy.

 

Take internet tabs with a healthy grain of salt. There are some good ones out there, but most of them are only good for comedy material.

 

And let us know how this shakes out. I've never sat down and learned 'Forever', but it's a killer tune.

[ggm1960]

 

does being a member of this forum automatically make your transcriptions legit?

 

 

Being able to type and having access to a computer makes anyone a "member" of these forums. Maybe one should be required to obtain a license to be a transcriber?

 

It is, of course, up to the end user to determine how legit any tab he/she plans to use is.

 

Sometimes it just doesn't matter how correct tabs are, or even telling/showing someone how to play a song.

 

Here's a great example. Brown Eyed Girl is a song you read about a lot here as being one of the most tired, burnt out songs around.

If you listen to the original Van Morrison recording carefully you'll hear that every instance of the dominant (D) is actually a D7. I couldn't count the number of times I've pointed this out to guitar players I've been working with only to turn around and see them playing a regular D chord.

[ski219]

 

Being able to type and having access to a computer makes anyone a "member" of these forums. Maybe one should be required to obtain a license to be a transcriber? It is, of course, up to the end user to determine how legit any tab he/she plans to use is. Sometimes it just doesn't matter how correct tabs are, or even telling/showing someone how to play a song. Here's a great example. Brown Eyed Girl is a song you read about a lot here as being one of the most tired, burnt out songs around. If you listen to the original Van Morrison recording carefully you'll hear that every instance of the dominant (D) is actually a D7. I couldn't count the number of times I've pointed this out to guitar players I've been working with only to turn around and see them playing a regular D chord.

 

 

 

When we first started playing Brown Eyed Girl I was guilty of that. What I did was to find some vids of Van M. doing the song on Youtube, so I self-corrected.

 

Speaking of tabs. I use a combo of both tabs and recordings to learn a song. Typically I start out listening and playing along. If there are riffs or chords I can't get I then look tabs. It's definately hit or miss with the tabs. But you have to play to the recording in order to tell if a tab is spot on, slighly off, or complete trash.

[12Pack]

I never trust tabs on the net and there are times when the other guitar player in my band and I disagree on how the song might be played.

 

Some times he is right - some times I am right. I've gone into music stores and picked up a song book just to look up the section that we might have a disagreement on. That's about the only way I trust knowing if it is correct or not.

[B Money]

if me and the other guitarist have a disagreement on how a part is played (rarely happens BTW), I usually defer to him, even if I think my version is correct. It's the lesser of three evils:

1) argue about it and create tension between band members

2) both of us play it our own way and it sounds like {censored}

3) we play it his way, and it sounds wrong to my ear, but no one else seems to notice so..whatever. at least we're playing a new song!