Advice? Bringing up money issues....

[jaxn slim]

The singer in my band decided about a month ago that he wanted to take 10% off the top from every gig to pay for band expenses. This came as a bit of a slap in the face because, until that point, I had been paying for most of the band's the expenses out of pocket, and he had just taken over that duty. This actually came at the tail end of a month-long fight between us over control of the band. I eventually conceded and said, "Have at it if you think you can handle it." I was reluctant because I have a fair amount of experience running bands, and this is his first band.

 

Well... here it is 6 weeks later and I figure he's probably collected about $150-200 in addition to the normal take and has probably spent about $5-10 on a stack of flyers. Meanwhile, we need lights, posters, banners, bumper stickers, and other merchandise.

 

I really want to bring this up to him in a tactful way because I am pretty confident that he hasn't even been tracking how much he has taken over the past 6 weeks.

 

Here are the options I have thought about so far -

a. Bring it up the next time the whole band is together (in about 3 weeks) so we can all talk about it.

b. Ask him (1-on-1) at a show tomorrow if he even knows how much he has collected off the top. This potentially could create a volatile situation if I don't bring it up carefully.

 

Any advice?

[Austincowbell]

Do it one on one. Otherwise he'll get defensive and feel that you are "outing" him in front of the rest of the band. Just say something like "we need posters" have you collected enough money for them?

[Lee Knight]

Whoa. I'd politely say, "You're going to need to keep a ledger on that cash or it's going to get sticky for you, without you wanting it to. And real quick."

 

I had a very honest band leader get very confused with this stuff a lot. And he was always short on bills for his family etc. Real easy to get "confused." Save him from himself before it's too late. Every penny accounted for. If that's too much, he's not the man for the job.

 

If you went out of pocket when you were doing it, that was a mistake and it's history. Keep tabs, keep honest.

[THX1138]

I think one-on-one would be fine, if this 10% were affecting just you. But it sounds like it's removing dough from everyone's pockets - and therefore, I think you're well within your right to bring it up in front of everybody.

 

Sounds like you're ready to get more serious about being a business. And if that's the case, time for a real band meeting. Taking 10% off the top is fine if it's going into a band fund - but not if it's going into the singer's pocket for undisclosed "band expenses".

 

We have a bank account. ie, "band fund". Each member gets paid a set rate per gig - soundman & roadie/merch guy, also a set rate... Basically, everyone is on salary. Any dough above and beyond that payroll goes to the bank to take care of everything from poster printing to trailer inspections. Everyone knows what they're getting paid every gig, and the band pays for itself.

[Lee Knight]

 

We have a bank account. ie, "band fund". Each member gets paid a set rate per gig - soundman & roadie/merch guy, also a set rate... Basically, everyone is on salary. Any dough above and beyond that payroll goes to the bank to take care of everything from poster printing to trailer inspections. Everyone knows what they're getting paid every gig, and the band pays for itself.

 

 

Absolutely. This is the way to go. Easy. We used to deposit bootey into account and cut paychecks... like a real business.

[SpaceNorman]

I'm not big on "slush funds" for miscellaneous band expenses - unless there are strong controls both in terms of transaction tracking and balance reporting and equally if not maybe more important - a process for approving expenses BEFORE any money is spent.

 

I still get a little pissed when I recall a former band member who showed up at rehearsal one day with a sample business card he had designed with the help of a buddy and asking our opinion of it. It was sorta "meh" but nobody wanted to burst his bubble ... fast forward to the next rehearsal, where he walked in handed each of us a stack of 200 cards (all with HIS name and number on it) and a bill for $50 each for our "share" of the printing costs (which included a stipend to his buddy for helping with the design).

[jaxn slim]

 

I still get a little pissed when I recall a former band member who showed up at rehearsal one day with a sample business card he had designed with the help of a buddy and asking our opinion of it. It was sorta "meh" but nobody wanted to burst his bubble ... fast forward to the next rehearsal, where he walked in handed each of us a stack of 200 cards (all with HIS name and number on it) and a bill for $50 each for our "share" of the printing costs (which included a stipend to his buddy for helping with the design).

 

 

Wow. I would have lost it.

 

I agree that approving expenses is a great control.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. If anyone has any more input, please don't hold back.

[rvschulz]

Yeah, as a IT consultant who travelled a lot married to a CPA who is an auditor by nature and business ... Keeping a paper trail is a must. Also, as in my family expenses ... any expense over X amount must be approved unless it's a SERIOUS EMERGENCY -

 

What serious emergency could your band have ? Trailer tire blowout ? Also, everyone should have an agreed-upon list of approved expenditures. One of the items that comes to me is Entertainment expenses. I mean, when I'm chasing new business, I usually end up buying a lunch/dinner or two at some point as a part of the sales cycle. Perhaps you might end up buying drinks for the bar manager to get on their good side ... who knows.

 

At some point, either a pissed off bandmate or ... the IRS will come along asking where the 10% is going. And if the pissed off bandmate hears the wrong thing ... band over, singer hurt, someone in jail ...

 

Make some written agreement and have a meeting. Do this with everyone.

[stratman77]

My wife and I handle the expenses in the band...We bought the PA and didn't ask for a dime from anyone.. That is not to say others didn't volunteer to put money in on it.. We just decided to do it ourselves and that way whenever anyone leaves there is no money that has to be delved over or someone has to be bought out... For flyers she gets to make them up at work at little or no expense...We split the money even 5 ways after a gig.. Money has a way of dividing people and even families.. In our band we like to keep it simple.. you pay for your own gear.. show up for rehearsals and show up for gigs and practice and deliver good product to the show..

If someone wants to take over the band and make arrangements for spending money then as mentioned above keep a ledger and speak to them 'one on one"...Get it out in the open first and foremost and that way the slate stays clean and everyone is on the same page..

[samkokajko]

We are doing it on a smaller scale, though mentioning $10 for a promo budget brings it back to our level. We just did a gig last night. At the end of the night I sat down with the guitarist who funded the food, (i funded shirts and other items). We sat down and pulled the money we had put in right off the top of the pile. The whole band knew what had been spent where and was in on it. After all the costs were covered we split the rest.

 

As far as equipment you own your own, I happen to own the sound system. We are about to get IEM and each member will buy his own, that way we don't have any equipment problems if we break up or something.

[12Pack]

I'm pretty lucky that the band I'm in we don't quabble over dollars and cents.

 

There are 5 of us and one guy owns about 85 to 90% of the PA and pretty much maintains it. Being he owns the PA - I went out an bought the band a bunch of led lights and the controller unit for our gigs. I also just bought some recording gear for recording our live gigs as well. But with this said it is our band - mine and the other guys.

 

The drummer has his drums - the bass player has his bass and the other singer has her stand, mic and tamborine.

 

As much as we appreciate their input - the other person and myself have most of the control and final say. We've both sunk money (him way more then I did) then the other players - yet when we get paid we split everything evenly across all of us equally.

 

In my opinion when working in a band - there are two types -

 

Fist type - It's just a side job and really doing it as a hobby

 

Second type - It's a full time job and your main source of income is coming from the band.

 

I play in the first type and if I pay more money into the band then so be it - If golf was a hobby I'd be pouting money into that - or fishing - or whatever.

 

If your in a band that is your main source of income then everything is probably expensed and accounted for as the intake is claimed as income to the IRS probably a lot more then the occasional side gig.

 

Who's band is it? Who started it? Who was tried out and invited? If your finding the gigs should you get paid more then the singer for finding them - driving there and back - demos costs?

 

If your the one who started the band - then I'd take the reigns in a little bit more IMHO.

[jaxn slim]

 

Who's band is it? Who started it? Who was tried out and invited? If your finding the gigs should you get paid more then the singer for finding them - driving there and back - demos costs? If your the one who started the band - then I'd take the reigns in a little bit more IMHO.

 

 

It's a funny story actually. The band was the singer's idea and he asked me to join since we had been playing in a band previously. His career was purely as a solo artist, doing pianos and vocals on his own. I had run a few bands before, so I had more of the tools to run things.

 

We started rehearsing and auditioning the other players at my house, using my gear. Then I came up with the band name, booked our first handful of shows, put listings in the paper, made flyers, promo kits, recorded a demo at my house, and created and maintained the myspace page.

 

He did some work too. He burned the demos that I had mixed, came up with the set list, and did book a handful of shows.

 

I figured he and I were partners after about 8 months of doing this. He thought that because he was the "front man" and it was his idea in the first place, he should be in control. It all hit the fan when he asked me if I minded him finding a backup guitar player. I said that was fine, but that I needed a cut of the shows I wasn't playing in... since I owned part of the band.

 

I'm not sure if the whole concept was over his head or not, but we spent a few weeks going in circles until I decided that he could just do it all himself. Then he told me after a show that he and the rest of the band decided he would start taking 10% off the top.

 

Jeezzz... sorry for the long post.

[S.L.B.]

Honestly if he's doing all the booking and leg work and graphics, website and more than I would say 10% is a steal..... especially since your in Nashville....., But, have you guys actually made 2000.00 in the past 6 weeks, because I didn't think you guys were playing much around anymore....(at least that was the impression I got when the Cash tribute was a no show a the Maggie May's Patio last month... I was running sound at) Assuming you're in "Far From Folsom" ....maybe I have the wrong guy,) but heck if your making money in Nashville, good for you.

[jaxn slim]

No show?! Holy crap! That was last month? The singer said that was this coming weekend! I'll have to talk to him about that.

 

I wish we were making money in Nashville. Most of the money we're making is out of town.

 

EDIT - And by the way, what's up man? How's the band? I spoke with you several months ago about possibly jamming with you guys. I suppose I fell off the radar, but no worries.

[prsisbest]

You gotta keep track of your expenses, or you'll be in trouble quick! We incorporated the band as a business, and cut paychecks to the members,etc.. Nowdays, everything has got to have a paper trail.

[S.L.B.]

 

No show?! Holy crap! That was last month? The singer said that was this coming weekend! I'll have to talk to him about that. I wish we were making money in Nashville. Most of the money we're making is out of town. EDIT - And by the way, what's up man? How's the band? I spoke with you several months ago about possibly jamming with you guys. I suppose I fell off the radar, but no worries.

 

 

PM'd

 

I can see not making money in Nashville....... oversaturation. We should jam sometime when we get our rhythm section straight again.

[ggm1960]

Ladies and gentlemen......... the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac band!

[chevybusa]

Just my 2 cents, but no way would I ever let anyone just "take %10 off the top!" For one thing, while not always the case, most folks (musicians or not) are only looking out for themselves and will act accordingly, regardless of the consequences. Giving someone unquestioned access to money without having to account for every expenditure of it will more often than not lead to abuses. As has already been pointed out, there should be a paper trail for everything. Also, the idea that every expense should be approved by everyone is a great idea, but this can also sometimes lead to problems as some members may have different ideas about how much should be spent and on what...in fact, I've been in several situations where such disagreements led to the break up of the band! I guess when it comes to money and bands you just have to be fortunate enough to be with an honest group of people that are all on the same wavelength about how to spend money...without that, there's only going to be problems...

[jaxn slim]

 

Ladies and gentlemen......... the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac band!

 

 

LOL. Anyone know how I can apply to receive some of the bailout funds?

[Steadfastly]

 

The singer in my band decided about a month ago that he wanted to take 10% off the top from every gig to pay for band expenses. This came as a bit of a slap in the face because, until that point, I had been paying for most of the band's the expenses out of pocket, and he had just taken over that duty. This actually came at the tail end of a month-long fight between us over control of the band. I eventually conceded and said, "Have at it if you think you can handle it." I was reluctant because I have a fair amount of experience running bands, and this is his first band. Well... here it is 6 weeks later and I figure he's probably collected about $150-200 in addition to the normal take and has probably spent about $5-10 on a stack of flyers. Meanwhile, we need lights, posters, banners, bumper stickers, and other merchandise. I really want to bring this up to him in a tactful way because I am pretty confident that he hasn't even been tracking how much he has taken over the past 6 weeks. Here are the options I have thought about so far - a. Bring it up the next time the whole band is together (in about 3 weeks) so we can all talk about it. b. Ask him (1-on-1) at a show tomorrow if he even knows how much he has collected off the top. This potentially could create a volatile situation if I don't bring it up carefully. Any advice?

 

 

In our company of 30 people we need an account to divvy out payments to each of us. We call it a clearing account. Why don't you open a checking account and put the 10% in their. Any money spent for band expenses must come out of there and have 2 people that must sign any cheques on the account. Also receipts should be required for any money used from the account and someone could make sure the balance in the account tallies each month. If they don't agree to that, I would not have anything to do with them.

[picothinker]

Money is always a sticky subject if there is any. The band I worked with that also made the most money did it like this. We went through half a dozen gigs renting a suitable PA. The band was working out well, we were getting booked quite a bit ahead. We were also geographically fairly far apart (50 mile radius). The PA rental guy was making more than we were at first.

 

The king of the band borrowed $10,000 (this was in the early 90's, BTW) and got a nice PA/lights. He bought a nice new trailer. We found a place that was centrally located to practice. It had free electricity, free water, free AC, a bathroom, free heat, free place to park the trailer adjacent (and indoors), and it was $50 a month. We could leave the needed amount of our gear set up to practice, and load the trailer indoors. Divided by five people, at the time, it was certainly worth $10 a month for that.

 

He did the posters for free at his work, he and I donated time/gas to spread them around.

 

Here was our split. He got 10% off the top of each gig for the PA/lights/trailer. We occasionally blew a speaker, broke a lightbulb, he took care of maintenance of everything. We were an official PA band, every bit of the drums, bass everything went through it. We had a full-time sound man that was very good, and HE got 10% off the top. There were some grumbles over that, but overall it was worth it. He was always there loading/unloading everyone's equipment for every gig.

 

There was some misunderstanding about the PA and 10% part, as he kept buying more stuff (all out of his pocket). I remember someone once asking him when the PA was going to be paid off. He grinned and said NEVER! He hauled the whole band's equipment, and could carry 4 extra bodies. We all chipped in on the gas, and some rode with him when they wanted.

 

After the expenses were deducted off the top, every band member split everything else equally. There were some member changes, but never any typical band drama on "who owns the lights", or whatever.

 

At the time, we were making $450-$650 per night for regular bar gigs, and $1200-$1500 for nicer weddings, new years, etc. We would usually have negotiated drinks, meals, rooms, breakfast, whatever else we could work out. We all had jobs, no thoughts of "Making It", it was just for fun. We only played on weekends, but were pretty much booked solid, both Friday/Saturday.

 

It may not have been ideal, but that was how we did it.

 

T-shirts were our only promo material, and we bought them off the top also.

[boxorox]

Always own your own stuff outright. Trying to buy someones share of a depreciated PA is a headache. That said, as the things like trailer, PA etc are for common band use, we kick in for maintenance. Also some logistical considerations. Gas, etc. if we ride together.

The finances, if the band is paying out of pocket or percentage of gigs is Band Business, and should be discussed in a Band Meeting. The ten % is basically going into a kitty, right? There should be an accounting of this every month. How much we got, how much we put in last month, what expenses did it pay, and there better be itemized phone bills and reciepts. Any other expenses, promo materials, equipment maintenance, should be approved by the band beforehand. No one has discretionary use of the treasury.

As for paying off the PA loan, that was a bad deal from the start. But you're stuck with it now. In your place I would say that deal applies only to the original loan and not to any equipment he picked up later without discussing it with the rest of the band. Figure up how much has been paid, and define when the debt will be/was settled. What are you guys getting out of it besides usage? If you walked out the door today, would you leave with anything of value that represents your investment? Cash? A pair of mons? Power amp? Mics? If you don't work this out, I see a lot of ugliness in your future. ALWAYS own your own stuff.

[wheresgrant3]

I can't offer any advice... I can only offer my experience. Over the years I've played in many cover bands. Most were the weekend warrior type 3-4 gigs a month, all local, small following, at most clearing $100-125 per guy. The band I'm currently in is quite the opposite. A total business; we collectively own the PA, lights, van, trailer... have a manager who we give 1/6th (we split 6 ways) who is responsible for all bookings. Together we share various responsibility 9storing van, running the website, mailing posters). We take $20 per man off the top of each show... that goes into a clearing a checking account which goes to all expenses... from gas for the van, to a new LED light can. On average $20 per man per show doesn't sound like much..but on average we're socking away $500-$700 per month into that account. Last week we bought an entire case of gaffer tape for $150... that should last us into next summer. that money goes for van insurance, new PA gear, lights... etc.