O.M.G.!

[Roadappledrumme]

Came across this in the local caigslist:facepalm:

 

 

 

Great Band available FREE (Southtowns)

 

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Experienced band specializing in e-z listening classic rock, pop ballads and contemporary country looking for regular (weekly, monthly) gigs. Musical style appropriate for light evening entertainment, conversation and dancing. Not a big bar/ party band and we can play fairly quiet when needed. Outstanding sound quality and highly professional presentation. The Eagles, Doobie Brothers, Keith Urban, Garth Brooks, America, CCR, Tim McGraw, John Melloncamp and Van Morrison are just a few of the artists we cover. Satisfaction is absolutely guaranteed.

We would consider a percentage of the door admission/tips for pay or even some kind of barter in exchange for a regular scheduled performance. We are not desperate, broke or suck. We're just looking to perform in some optional venues other than the bar scene and enjoy a few hours a week playing great music to an appreciative audience of any size.

We consist of guitars, keyboards, vocals and percussion. We would prefer a location in the southtowns (West Seneca, Orchard Park, Elma...) for convenience purposes but would consider any area.

Please email me with some information about your requirements and I'll get back to you asap with more information.

 

 

Location: Southtowns

it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Compensation: no pay

 

 

 

PostingID: 1732217092

 

 

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Copyright

[musicmanmu]

Man, those guys need an asskicking. Probably a bunch of old doctors and lawyers with too many toys and too much free time. Pisses me off:cop:

[TrickyBoy]

If anyone finds good looking, disease free hookers who will work for the same terms, please PM me their info

 

Wouldn't this be a perfect thread for BlueStrat to resurface on??

[Dessalines]

What part of the world is this taking place in, the Kalmuck steppe? No Pay? What ever happened to "Will play for waxed beans?".

[mineame]

My guess is this will last about 4 gigs max... After a couple load in and outs, and the money spent on gas, they will probably be re-thinking their business model.

[Roadappledrumme]

 

What part of the world is this taking place in, the Kalmuck steppe? No Pay? What ever happened to "Will play for waxed beans?".

 

 

Western New York- Buffalo area

[rhat]

 

Man, those guys need an asskicking. Probably a bunch of old doctors and lawyers with too many toys and too much free time. Pisses me off:cop:

 

 

 

One of the best piano players I ever met was a lawyer. He also was a killer trumpet player too when he was younger. That cat could lay down stride piano with the best of them. He played in this big band jam night for like 20 year for the hell of it. The guy could wax any piano bar guy in town. He loved to play and he didnt want any strings of a real band. If he wanted to wander off for a few months he was free to do it. To some guys the freedom is worth more than the money. You will have that. One thing for sure ,,, he was a great player.

[Roadappledrumme]

 

One of the best piano players I ever met was a lawyer. He also was a killer trumpet player too when he was younger. That cat could lay down stride piano with the best of them. He played in this big band jam night for like 20 year for the hell of it. The guy could wax any piano bar guy in town. He loved to play and he didnt want any strings of a real band. If he wanted to wander off for a few months he was free to do it. To some guys the freedom is worth more than the money. You will have that. One thing for sure ,,, he was a great player.

 

 

Yea but these guys are advertising to take away gigs that would probably be paying ones. This just goes to show the whole de-valuing of music thing. Now a band is worth nothing? Oh well at least they didn't offer to pay people or clubs for letting them play:eek:

[kmart]

 

Now a band is worth nothing?

 

No; now THEIR band is worth no $ compensation.

 

Why do people have such problems with this concept?

 

Bands that choose to play for little/no pay aren't taking ANYTHING away from other bands. I don't understand why it gets sweat about so much...

 

You want to get paid for playing? Then offer a compelling product that people are willing to pay for, and don't worry about those that don't/don't want to.

[Roadappledrumme]

 

No; now THEIR band is worth no $ compensation. Why do people have such problems with this concept? Bands that choose to play for little/no pay aren't taking ANYTHING away from other bands. I don't understand why it gets sweat about so much... You want to get paid for playing? Then offer a compelling product that people are willing to pay for , and don't worry about those that don't/don't want to.

 

 

Musicians get this concept. People who are looking for entertainment don't always get this. Or they don't see enough of a difference in the presentations involved to see why one band is worth more money than another. That's where the problem lies. Perception on behalf of the entertainment buyer. This makes it a harder sell for the band who wants to get paid. That's why people have a problem with the concept of giving it away- their jobs get harder.

[ymb]

Doesn't sound too bad to me. They don't seem to want to take your bar gigs away and seem like thay want to play some music live for some type of renumeration. What a freaking bunch of morons they must be.

 

I do have to take some offense though...

 

What is wrong with being a doctor or lawyer ( well I guess I understand the lawyer thing )?

 

Have any of you ever even heard of a doctor with too much free time? If you have I would love to speak with them because all I seem to do is see patients in the office and see them in the OR over and over and over and over. In fact some days I just want to quit so I actually have some free time for projects.

 

Ya know it takes a long time in school and a long time in training and ya know we tend to be the first ones that the rest of you turn to in your time of need. Then we are the first ones to take {censored} from the same folks over silly things like guitars and such.I just don't understand the doctor bashing thing. As said upstream there are some fantastic musicians that just happen to have eight year degrees as well.

 

 

So what is the rub?

[wades_keys]

It is what it is.

 

If there's a monster player that will play for free, it's probably a good idea to get out of his market space, right?

 

A boogie woogie piano player wouldn't threaten me or the band I play in at all - in fact, if I knew of one that was that good, I'd co-opt his ass into my band and not pay him jack {censored}.

[kmart]

Have any of you ever even heard of a doctor with too much free time?

 

Every doctor I've ever had clearly has too much free time to pursue 'other interests'...because they're never in the examining room with me at the time they're supposed to be (i.e., when the appointment I set with THEIR OFFICE is).

 

And I don't want to hear that load of BS about how doctors need to multi-book so as to avoid dead time due to last minute cancellations; that's not my problem when I show up.

[wades_keys]

Every doctor I've ever had clearly has too much free time to pursue 'other interests'...because they're never in the examining room with me at the time they're supposed to be (i.e., when the appointment I set with THEIR OFFICE is). And I don't want to hear that load of BS about how doctors need to multi-book so as to avoid dead time due to last minute cancellations; that's not my problem when I show up.

So you'd rather he look at his watch in the middle of the examination and tell you: "sorry, you're out of time - I've got another patient to see."?

 

Every time I've had a doctor be late to see me, he's been in the building, with another patient.

 

[kmart]

So you'd rather he look at his watch in the middle of the examination and tell you: "sorry, you're out of time - I've got another patient to see."? Every time I've had a doctor be late to see me, he's been in the building, with another patient.

No, I'd rather that the doctor be there to see me when the appointment is supposed to start, as opposed to 20-30-40 (or more) minutes later. If he can't finish up with his previous appointments and get to me close to the time that's scheduled, he's seeing too many patients, plain and simple (And I'm pretty sure I know my health/body better than you, so you'll have to accept it when I say that if he did arrive on schedule, he'd have enough time to see me).

 

Believe it, EVERY doctor will agree with me that they put too many people on the books to be able to get through if they all showed; that's just the way the system is set up, unfortunately. But complain to your insurance about not paying the office visit co-pay because you had to wait for an unreasonable amount of time and BOY will you see people jump to make that appointment when you reschedule!

 

Maybe you don't care about having your time wasted by waiting for doctors...

I do.

[ymb]

I will have to disagree yet again. I know that it seems that many docs are late a lot. Some practices force docs to see a certain number of patients per day. Usually primarys and such as the visits don't generate that much money.

 

I am in surgery and our practice as a whole is on time.

 

The way I practice is that if you are late I will not see you. Period. I hold myself to the same standards and am usually at the door to the exam room as the nurse is leaving. The biggest comment that I get is "oh my God, I didn't even have time to open the magazine"

 

Again I just have some sand in my undies when I hear off the cuff remarks about docs having a lot of free time and that somehow aren't deservative of nice things such as guitars and whatnot.

 

I will sit back and fade out of this thread so as not to turn this into how the health care world spins.

 

And by the way I play for cold hard cashish personally!!!!

 

peace

[BlackBelt]

 

My guess is this will last about 4 gigs max... After a couple load in and outs, and the money spent on gas, they will probably be re-thinking their business model.

 

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My thoughts EXACTLY!!!

[Vito Corleone]

 

Musicians get this concept. People who are looking for entertainment don't always get this. Or they don't see enough of a difference in the presentations involved to see why one band is worth more money than another. That's where the problem lies. Perception on behalf of the entertainment buyer. This makes it a harder sell for the band who wants to get paid. That's why people have a problem with the concept of giving it away- their jobs get harder.

 

 

It works both ways. On the other end of the spectrum are the people that, when hiring a band, will just assume these guys MUST suck if they play for free and will never look twice at them. These are also the same people who assume that if a band charges $5000 instead of $2500 then they MUST be twice as good, or if they have 8 band members instead of 4, or 2 girl singers up front instead of 1. There's a certain truth to the concept of "perceived value" and there are a lot of bands who get a lot more money then they are probably truely worth simply because they profess to be worth that much.

 

Since this particular band only wants 1 gig at 1 venue, they aren't really devaluing the market. They will most likely just end up somewhere who doesn't want to pay for live music anyway. Maybe I'm being naive here, but I seriously doubt too many clubowners who regularly hire bands and regularly pay them the going-rate would jump on this offer. Most people understand you can't get something-for-nothing.

 

These guys might just end up getting LESS work offering it for free than if they charged for it.

 

But why not just find a venue they want to play and say "you've got bands here playing for $500 a night...we'll do it for $400?" Unless they actually suck or they (as they state) really don't want to play venues that traditionally hire live bands and want to play someplace off-the-circuit. Seems that the whole idea of having to meet certain expectations of clubowners and audiences who are used to having live music is too much for them.

[rhat]

 

It is what it is. If there's a monster player that will play for free, it's probably a good idea to get out of his market space, right? A boogie woogie piano player wouldn't threaten me or the band I play in at all - in fact, if I knew of one that was that good, I'd co-opt his ass into my band and not pay him jack {censored}.

 

 

 

I would guess you could get him to play for free ,, but I doubt that you could get him to pull off a vacation to make a gig or skip a super bowl party that he has gone to for the last 10 years that his buddy thows. Good players who give it away are not stupid ,, they just dont want the obligation to have to be there because they are getting paid to be in a band. They play on a sit in basis on their own terms. They look at if from a point of view that its not worth the commitment to have to play every gig and give up say 40 nights a year for gig pay. They can do the math...the 4 grand aint worth the obligation of being in a band.... Typically guys who can just sit in and make it work with a working band are pretty good players ,, and they could be in a working band if they really wanted it. Usually thay are what you call sidemen. they play harp, or keys, or sax etc. The band can function just fine without them... so when they want they are welcome to show up and play. Them being there adds somthing to the band ,,,, and the band can get by when they are MIA> Bands take alot of time... there are very good players that just dont want to give up that much time to be a full time member of a band.

[rhat]

 

I will have to disagree yet again. I know that it seems that many docs are late a lot. Some practices force docs to see a certain number of patients per day. Usually primarys and such as the visits don't generate that much money. I am in surgery and our practice as a whole is on time. The way I practice is that if you are late I will not see you. Period. I hold myself to the same standards and am usually at the door to the exam room as the nurse is leaving. The biggest comment that I get is "oh my God, I didn't even have time to open the magazine" Again I just have some sand in my undies when I hear off the cuff remarks about docs having a lot of free time and that somehow aren't deservative of nice things such as guitars and whatnot. I will sit back and fade out of this thread so as not to turn this into how the health care world spins. And by the way I play for cold hard cashish personally!!!! peace

 

 

 

 

You are wise to load out ,,,, hell these guys will figure out a way hate you for getting paid or for playing for free, Hell they will hate your kids even because their daddy is a rich doctor. Society is pretty screwed up in that way. All I ask of my doctors is that they know what they are doing. But that is a toally different thread. Some are pretty scary , especially at the HMO gate keeper end of things.

[musicmanmu]

Yikes, didn't mean to start a doctor bashing thread! I only mentioned 'doctors' and 'lawyers' because around my area, there are a handful of bands that are, in fact, comprised of doctors and lawyers who undercut and/or play for free. In my area, where gigs are a lot more scarce than they might be in a larger market, that's a troubling practice for folks who are honestly trying to make their living by playing live. Luckily for me, I have a steady job for income, but when I gig, I always try to get paid what I think I'm/we're worth.

 

That is all.

[rhat]

 

Yikes, didn't mean to start a doctor bashing thread! I only mentioned 'doctors' and 'lawyers' because around my area, there are a handful of bands that are, in fact, comprised of doctors and lawyers who undercut and/or play for free. In my area, where gigs are a lot more scarce than they might be in a larger market, that's a troubling practice for folks who are honestly trying to make their living by playing live. Luckily for me, I have a steady job for income, but when I gig, I always try to get paid what I think I'm/we're worth. That is all.

 

 

 

Its a two edged sword for high paid professional people. Some will bitch because because they are getting paid when they dont need the money, and some will bitch because they play for free. One thing for sure ,, you cant expect them not to play if they have the chops and the band to put on a good show. In my home town alot of those guys used to play a big band jam night and did it for like 20 years. They had some outstanding musicians.. that lawyer piano player I posted about did keys for them. They had all kinds of guys in that band from all walks of life, but alot of them were professionals and business people.

[mr3lions]

i bet Bluestrat`s rolling over in his cyber-grave

[wades_keys]

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

 

Aw Hell, that's no fun: let's bitch on the interwebz instead.

[MartinC]

Good post, and I agree, but there are also other senarios-bands that do weddings and corporates. You don't need fans to do these gigs and you get paid well. So, the value of these bands has nothing to do with how many fans they have-it's simply a matter of how much they get paid.

 

I've done long running gigs at several places that had followings-gigs that were typically two week nights a week and went on for up to two years. They weren't going to go out of business if we weren't there, and people definately came to see us, or in some cases, came back with friends. Regulars made it a point to come when we were there. But, if you play a joint for two years, twice a week, your "fans" aren't going to come out that often. Certainly not often enough to justify the nightly expense. They are paying for the ambience the group provides, the possibility of attracting walk by business, and making their place more attractive.

If a place decides to keep your group in particular in a situation like this, as opposed to bringing in different groups all the time, they are assigning a value to your band, regardless of fans.

 

 

 

 

 

If a customer wants a BMW... it doesn't matter how cheap they can buy a Yugo. They're going to pay for the BMW. Some people wouldn't pay for the BMW and would consider the Yugo an awesome deal. They're just not that into cars or BMW. After giving it some thought... I'm more of the belief that bands with fans... sell tickets. They get paid because of the demand to hear and see THEM. Bands without fans need venues with customers so that they can play to a crowd. They NEED the venue and assume the venue needs them. However, the venue could use the radio, a dj, karaoke night or some other form of entertainment much cheaper and still stay in business. The venue is not in business as a place for bands to play and get paid. The venue is in business for the venue. A venue doesn't hire a band so the venue can stay in business... the venue hires a band to make MORE money than it normally does. And they judge the amount they're going to pay based on that. More often than not, live music costs a venue more than they would regularly get without the band but use the band as free advertisement because the band will be throwing the venue name all over town on fliers. That's why they get mad when a band doesn't advertise for a show. They consider that in the hiring of a live band. So the venue is in business FOR the venue. The BAND should be in business for the BAND. Fans are the bands customers. Pretending that a venue's customers are the BANDS customers brings about false value to the band. I've got several friends in bands who can pack a no cover venue but can't get 50 people to a $5 cover venue. Nobody is coming to see THEM... just experience the live band at their favorite watering hole. I've been in bands just like this. The value reality is that the band without the bar is just another band. I've got friends who play gospel. They play to packed churches. They get paid to play to a group of people who would have been in the same place with or without them. But they get paid pretty good. They fuss (they're baptists so they fuss, not cuss), when another gospel act will play for free or a "love gift". They say it hurts their business and what they bring in. Just like the bar bands. And their music? Isn't any better than the free band. These guys couldn't sell tickets unless it was a fundraiser for someone else. However, I've had friends rent the Holiday Inn Conference Room with a bar, and sell tickets. They made a killing. Why? They have their own fans. They no longer play the bar scene... they created their own scene. They know that people are coming to see THEM and their show. They're in business and have their own customers. They're not mooching off the customers of someone else and claiming those customers as their own. So when a band complains about freebirds affecting their business... it's true. It hurts the false value of their band. When a venue can pack the place and pay the bills using a free band, then the value of the band wanting to get paid just hit rock bottom to the venue. They see no point. Because in their minds, if the band was so valueable, they'd be able to pack out anywhere they wanted on their own. They wouldn't need the venue... which has now been shown not to need the band. Again... the venue is in business for the venue.