Members mr3lions Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Wet T-shirt contest. Cash prize. The bar will fill with drinking baboons. ummmm....what time does it start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kl285528 Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I gotta say, I'm getting more and more tired of people going off without any thought to whether they sound like a jerk or not - and by this, I mean the bar owner - maybe I've been in sales too long - gosh, I could have conveyed the same message to the OP by saying "yeah, you know, we tried that discount idea about a year ago, and it really didn't work well - great idea, though -hey, how about we try this idea instead, and by the way, thanks for helping us drum up business....."Damn - is it that hard to be civil? I much prefer to get along versus piss people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuitarPlayerFL Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 ummmm....what time does it startThis proves my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I gotta say, I'm getting more and more tired of people going off without any thought to whether they sound like a jerk or not - and by this, I mean the bar owner - maybe I've been in sales too long - gosh, I could have conveyed the same message to the OP by saying "yeah, you know, we tried that discount idea about a year ago, and it really didn't work well - great idea, though -hey, how about we try this idea instead, and by the way, thanks for helping us drum up business....."Damn - is it that hard to be civil? I much prefer to get along versus piss people off. +1 Even if the douchebag is patently against any type of drink promotion he could say it in a nice way. "Thanks for the initiative but we have a long-standing policy against that type of thing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Backstory: We play an acoustic duo every couple of months at this local bar. They seat about 20 4-man tables and a 12-seat long bar- not a huge place, tiny by most standards. So we play there, 10-1 Sat nights, for a % of the till. By 10, the dinner crowd is GONE, and there's not much of a regular bar crowd. We've done exceptionally well on some occasions, but since the economy downturn, we've seen crowds here dissipate to the point of it being a $$ loss after gas and meal. (no free beer or food either). So... I call the owner this morning, tell him I'm going to street team our next gig, put up posters and fliers everywhere, and that I asked if it would be cool to put a coupon onto the flyer (easy tear-off) for 50% off the first domestic draft (a $1.00 off coupon on the first beer, basically). He got upset and said he doesn't do discounts. Period. I suggested that it was just a gimmick to get more people in the door, and he said "that's why I have bands" and even told me that if I felt that wasn't good enough, that I don't have to play there anymore. I found myself doing damage control, told him I didn't mean any offense, etc.. he was pretty bent up about it. I assured him I was only looking for new ways to bring in more business to help him and us.. He pretty much told me to find some other way to do it. In a very agitated tone. Jeez, what gives? Its too bad you cant start that gig a little earlier. The idea of the band is to get that dinner crowd to stick around for a few more drinks after dinner. The way the guy is doing it now he is missing the boat on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 My old man runs a business, and he has a "no discount" policy, too. Keep in mind that this guy probably gets pestered for a discount a couple times a day--when you brought it up, you were the only guy who wasn't a customer, and the only guy whose throat he's allowed to jump down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 uhh, happy hour is illegal???If I remember correctly, back when I had a liquor license in PA (1999-2000), you could advertise "happy hour" but not actually indicate that alcohol is being sold at a reduced cost. You could give away beer, but you couldn't advertise that you were doing it.At some point, it became legal to advertise beer prices, I think... but the whole thing was a pain in the ass enough that I got out of the entire headache by selling my share and moving to DE.Now Amy wants us to buy a bar together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 If I remember correctly, back when I had a liquor license in PA (1999-2000), you could advertise "happy hour" but not actually indicate that alcohol is being sold at a reduced cost. You could give away beer, but you couldn't advertise that you were doing it. At some point, it became legal to advertise beer prices, I think... but the whole thing was a pain in the ass enough that I got out of the entire headache by selling my share and moving to DE. Now Amy wants us to buy a bar together... yea then you can work half days ,,, but you need to decide what 12 hours a day you wanna work 7 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 yea then you can work half days ,,, but you need to decide what 12 hours a day you wanna work 7 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Some counties within the various states do have some strange rules about what can and cannot be done in alcohol advertising, although I doubt that's why he's reacting like that. He's strapped for cash, and it's all your fault!!!! :poke: (I would've been fired after I asked him how he managed to drive all his regulars away.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 yea then you can work half days ,,, but you need to decide what 12 hours a day you wanna work 7 days a week.Gotta love those half days!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Some counties within the various states do have some strange rules about what can and cannot be done in alcohol advertising, although I doubt that's why he's reacting like that. He's strapped for cash, and it's all your fault!!!! :poke: (I would've been fired after I asked him how he managed to drive all his regulars away.) His theory on entertainment is all screwed up. he wants to keep every dime to himself on the dinner crowd and lets them leave ,, then brings on the duo after they leave to play on a percentage. The duo is there to keep the dinner crowd at the bar. no real hope for this bar owner , like chord girl says , he is in trouble and has no idea how to get out. he might as well just not have a duo ,,, its a better business decision than the one he is making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 If I remember correctly, back when I had a liquor license in PA (1999-2000), you could advertise "happy hour" but not actually indicate that alcohol is being sold at a reduced cost. You could give away beer, but you couldn't advertise that you were doing it. At some point, it became legal to advertise beer prices, I think... but the whole thing was a pain in the ass enough that I got out of the entire headache by selling my share and moving to DE. Now Amy wants us to buy a bar together... yeah, a few posts up, jeff took the liberty of looking it up, drink specials and happy hour are perfectly legal here. I was being a bit sarcastic in my response you quoted, as almost ever bar from here to pennsyltuckyland promotes their happy hour dollar drafts on everything from table tents to gigantic banners plastered on the side of the building.It's all good.I agree with a lot of sentiments about bringing the crowd-To answer another post in this one- The reason he has us start at 10 is because of the payout being a percent of all sales while we are playing, he makes sure the dinner crowd is 100% dispersed so he doesn't have to give a cut of that. His dinner crowd packs the place, it's the 10PM - 2AM times that the bar empties.. I get the why of it - but he's clearly doing nothing to help, and as bluestrat put it- I'm an asshole for asking to help him improve his business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Doesn't matter what the business is; I've seen it plenty of times where someone has a suggestion and the business owner says something to the effect of, "Why don't you start a ______ business and you can run it however you want.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 His theory on entertainment is all screwed up. he wants to keep every dime to himself on the dinner crowd and lets them leave ,, then brings on the duo after they leave to play on a percentage. The duo is there to keep the dinner crowd at the bar. no real hope for this bar owner , like chord girl says , he is in trouble and has no idea how to get out. he might as well just not have a duo ,,, its a better business decision than the one he is making. If he had half a brain in his head, he'd start the duo at a conversible volume before the dinner crowd leaves, right after he did an X to get the earliest sales recorded for dinner, then pay the duo a percentage of the ring during the time that they played. IMO there is a huge untapped market in most areas for early Saturday bands, although you can find them in the larger cities. Let people have music early, and give them the option to get home before the checkpoints go up/ and or to get a good night's sleep. Let his handful of customers for late night come in without a cover and play the jukebox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 This is obviously a pretty lopsided "relationship" you have with this club.. why even bother keeping it with the owners attitude being what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 ....Band is brought in to entertain his customers, not provide them.... Well, the truth of the matter is that some bands DO bring in a crowd. The problem is that bar owners then expect ALL bands to bring in a crowd. I see bands as functioning in two ways in a bar. 1. If you're a hot band in your area, and draw a big crowd no matter where you play, then you can kinda call your owns shots and ask for special things from a bar, extra money, prime gig nights, etc. 2. If you're just a good band that really doesn't draw its own crowd then you have to be able to entertain and hold the people that DO, for whatever reason, show up at that bar. If a band doesn't draw its own following and can't hold a crowd either, and the bar itself doesn't have a built-in crowd, then there's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 If he had half a brain in his head, he'd start the duo at a conversible volume before the dinner crowd leaves, right after he did an X to get the earliest sales recorded for dinner, then pay the duo a percentage of the ring during the time that they played. IMO there is a huge untapped market in most areas for early Saturday bands, although you can find them in the larger cities. Let people have music early, and give them the option to get home before the checkpoints go up/ and or to get a good night's sleep.Let his handful of customers for late night come in without a cover and play the jukebox. Yup its called the 7 to 10 show. Pretty much the whole island down here runs on the 7 to 10 dinner show. the new dig runs em 7 nights a week. they team them up with happy hour and early bird dinner specials. The only place i can think of that starts music at 9pm is one of the high rise hotels. By the time that band starts most people are winding up the evening and are heading home so they can to do the early show thing again the next day. Bars dont seem to get the idea that the vast majority of people dont want to stay out to 1.30 am. Their bio clocks are not wired that way. I cant think of how many times i would have liked to to see a band and just didnt because i knew it was going to be a really late night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dancebass Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Kramer, I made a few calls and looked into this for you a bit. It appears that some dive bar down the street has recently hired some guy named Dalton. This hot shot Dalton has started kicking ass on all the old trouble maker patrons at this bar and things have totally turned around!! The guy you've been working for is REALLY pissed because HE BUILT THIS TOWN and now this guy Dalton is screwing everything up for him! Not to mention Dalton's banging his ex every night in the barn across the lake! My suggestion would be to get a monster truck and run over some cars at a local dealership! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeyParent Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Keep in mind I'm looking for ways to help fill HIS bar for him. Band is brought in to entertain his customers, not provide them. I'm not dumb as to the reality of today's market with the expectations of the band, but geezum... The sad reality though is that some bar owners put the onus on the band to bring people in, even to the point of promoting the show themselves. While a certain amount of this is fine and expected... there has to be limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeyParent Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Well, the truth of the matter is that some bands DO bring in a crowd. The problem is that bar owners then expect ALL bands to bring in a crowd. I see bands as functioning in two ways in a bar. 1. If you're a hot band in your area, and draw a big crowd no matter where you play, then you can kinda call your owns shots and ask for special things from a bar, extra money, prime gig nights, etc. 2. If you're just a good band that really doesn't draw its own crowd then you have to be able to entertain and hold the people that DO, for whatever reason, show up at that bar. If a band doesn't draw its own following and can't hold a crowd either, and the bar itself doesn't have a built-in crowd, then there's a problem. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 If he had half a brain in his head, he'd start the duo at a conversible volume before the dinner crowd leaves, right after he did an X to get the earliest sales recorded for dinner, then pay the duo a percentage of the ring during the time that they played. IMO there is a huge untapped market in most areas for early Saturday bands, although you can find them in the larger cities. Let people have music early, and give them the option to get home before the checkpoints go up/ and or to get a good night's sleep.Let his handful of customers for late night come in without a cover and play the jukebox. Better yet, pay them a flat fee (maybe 75 apiece + tips to start) and invest a little time and energy himself into promoting his business. I never understood how people who run restaurants expect musicians to bring them business. If the guy is losing his crowd, he's starting the music too late. If he's not getting consistent crowds to begin with, he has bigger problems than who is playing, and I'd start with the kitchen, the menu and the waitstaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Kramer, I made a few calls and looked into this for you a bit. It appears that some dive bar down the street has recently hired some guy named Dalton. This hot shot Dalton has started kicking ass on all the old trouble maker patrons at this bar and things have totally turned around!! The guy you've been working for is REALLY pissed because HE BUILT THIS TOWN and now this guy Dalton is screwing everything up for him! Not to mention Dalton's banging his ex every night in the barn across the lake! My suggestion would be to get a monster truck and run over some cars at a local dealership! I was thinking of burning down the hardware store instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Yup its called the 7 to 10 show. Pretty much the whole island down here runs on the 7 to 10 dinner show. the new dig runs em 7 nights a week. they team them up with happy hour and early bird dinner specials. The only place i can think of that starts music at 9pm is one of the high rise hotels. By the time that band starts most people are winding up the evening and are heading home so they can to do the early show thing again the next day.Bars dont seem to get the idea that the vast majority of people dont want to stay out to 1.30 am. Their bio clocks are not wired that way. I cant think of how many times i would have liked to to see a band and just didnt because i knew it was going to be a really late night. ^^^^ This. If it's a restaurant, this is absolute truth. Since none of us know the place Kramer is playing at, I can only go by my own experience for doing the restaurant/wine bar gig I've been doing since the mid 90s. We played 8-12 for years; this year they went from 7-11 on weekends and 7-10 weeknights. And even at that, we often play to almost no one the last 30-40 minutes. The demographics are different, the laws are different, the draw to go out in the first place is different, so businesses have to adapt or die. I repeat: people who run an eating establishment who rely on entertainment to fill their club are clueless. This was confirmed by one guy I play for who has a sports bar/restaurant and has bands on weekends: He is very successful and has two places now, and he flat out told me that any business that relies on musicians for income is a business that's not long for the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 speaking of dumbass bar owners... An ad went up on CL asking for a band to play night before thanksgiving. I happen to find myself in the position to be available. Most bars around here pay bands double on that night because it's the biggest bar night of the year here- So his ad was vague.. just "need band" so I respond, ask him what he's looking for, etc.. and last question was "what are you paying?".. here's his response: # no pay (some free pitchers of beer if we do well at the door could be some beer bought by us for you also)........... chance to book future gigs yourself at good club.# preferably rock.........original / cover your choice.# we can discuss gear but you dont need much more than guitars and a snare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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