Members Kramerguy Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Backstory: We play an acoustic duo every couple of months at this local bar. They seat about 20 4-man tables and a 12-seat long bar- not a huge place, tiny by most standards. So we play there, 10-1 Sat nights, for a % of the till. By 10, the dinner crowd is GONE, and there's not much of a regular bar crowd. We've done exceptionally well on some occasions, but since the economy downturn, we've seen crowds here dissipate to the point of it being a $$ loss after gas and meal. (no free beer or food either). So... I call the owner this morning, tell him I'm going to street team our next gig, put up posters and fliers everywhere, and that I asked if it would be cool to put a coupon onto the flyer (easy tear-off) for 50% off the first domestic draft (a $1.00 off coupon on the first beer, basically). He got upset and said he doesn't do discounts. Period. I suggested that it was just a gimmick to get more people in the door, and he said "that's why I have bands" and even told me that if I felt that wasn't good enough, that I don't have to play there anymore. I found myself doing damage control, told him I didn't mean any offense, etc.. he was pretty bent up about it. I assured him I was only looking for new ways to bring in more business to help him and us.. He pretty much told me to find some other way to do it. In a very agitated tone. Jeez, what gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rodclement Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 In the state of PA it is ILLEGAL for an operator to promote sale of alcohol by loweing price, ofering specials, two'fers, etc. Anything that may promote over consumption. I know it is done often with "no" consequence to operators however, should anything happen like an accident, etc, any materials that can show that the operator was promoting over consumption will be used against him. Maybe the owner has been down this road before... Rodrigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dancebass Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Jeez, what gives? The entire country has their panties in a wad about something or another. Everyone's a self righteous prick that lack the basic skill set needed to cooperate in a civil manner with other humans? Just a shot in the dark guess on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 uhh, happy hour is illegal??? That's news to me. I think every other bar minus one I know of is breaking the law His reasoning was that he doesn't do discounts on weekends.. nothing to do with law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 uhh, happy hour is illegal??? That's news to me. I think every other bar minus one I know of is breaking the law His reasoning was that he doesn't do discounts on weekends.. nothing to do with law. Might have just been in the approach and he felt that you were trying to tell him how to run his bar. Had you approached him with the idea of the flier asking him for suggestions on how to bring people in with it, he might very well have come up with the discount idea himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 He got upset and said he doesn't do discounts. Period. Well, that's the part where I would have stopped and said "Fair enough" instead of getting into a big discussion. Basically, he runs his business, you run yours. I wasn't there, obviously, so I might be misunderstanding the situation. But that's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Not all bar owners are good business people, and most of them are pretty tight with the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yer Blues Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Not all musicians make good bar owners. In fact, many of them don't even make good musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 argh.. I hate coming off all wrong ., I was hurried in typing the original post- I did initially tell him that I was doing fliers and asked what he thought of an idea to add a coupon or something. I really offered it as a suggestion. Keep in mind I'm looking for ways to help fill HIS bar for him. Band is brought in to entertain his customers, not provide them. I'm not dumb as to the reality of today's market with the expectations of the band, but geezum... I didn't come off all half-cocked or anything. I merely tried to sell the idea and was almost instantly thrust into damage control, it just went south THAT fast. The dude got upset over it. I didn't solicit that reaction intentionally. It wasn't normal. Hence this post. Thought you all might get a kick out of it, being as everyone here seems to like trashing bar owners. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 In the state of PA it is ILLEGAL for an operator to promote sale of alcohol by loweing price, ofering specials, two'fers, etc. Anything that may promote over consumption. Is that by taking out ad's in newspapers and such because that would be too obvious where as Kramerguy could rely on a closed system of communication such as e-mail or Facebook/Myspace messages where the target audience is just a select few. Just by getting people in the door makes others want to be part of a crowd. You know the herd mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 The dude got upset over it. I didn't solicit that reaction intentionally. It wasn't normal. Hence this post. Thought you all might get a kick out of it, being as everyone here seems to like trashing bar owners. My mistake. Some people just have personality disorders and you never know what you're gonna get. Several years back I was opening a small video rental store in a small center with a restaurant/bar. This place had an exclusivity in their rental agreement that they were the only place that could sell food. I wanted to be able to sell some popcorn and candy bars and the landlord told me I'd have to get this bar owner to agree. Well, the bar owner and I had always gotten along well---REAL nice guy as far as I knew--so I thought I could probably just ask him and all would be OK since what I wanted to sell wasn't exactly competiting with anything he sold. Well when I approach the guy with a big smile on my face he completely jumps down my throat with an attitude I never even DREAMED this dude possessed! A few days later his son (who co-owned the place) comes over and tells me it's ok to sell the stuff I want as I long as I clear the items individually with them first. Fair enough. I'm guessing the son realized his father was being unreasonable. Who knows WHAT set him off? Maybe he never liked me as I thought he did. Maybe somebody else in the center asked a similar thing a week before in a manner that was far less reasonable. Maybe he's just a dick. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 well guido , whaddya expect with popcorn? You must have been outta your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FXR Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Yesterday a local musician made a facebook page for the area. The first posts so far are commercial. Second posts, bars looking for bands to bring a crowd. I think it's an odd thing that somehow musicians are supposed to make the bar successful. I asked a musician friend about it and he shrugged and said stay out of it. Us musicians know. If you post pointing it out you'll look bad. (By musician, I mean gigging musician.) What a {censored}ing joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 See, this is where it always ends up when bands assume responsibility for bringing the crowd. He flat out told you his clientele is YOUR responsibility, that he's not going to lift a finger to help, you're an asshole for even suggesting that he do something to help, and it is on YOU to come up with a way to bring more people. The sad thing is, if you tell him to get stuffed, there would be ten more bands lining up for the chance to get the same 'deal' you're getting. {censored} like this happens here, too, and is the main reason retirement is looking better to me every day. I was just informed by the new management at the restaurant gig I have been doing for 16 years that they expect me to bring in more clientele, and they expect me to be a full band rather than a duo, for the same money, of course. Um....sure, I can make people want to come and eat your food and pay your prices and endure your service just because I'm sitting in a corner playing an acoustic guitar, because as everyone knows, the background music is the main reason people go out to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I can understand the owners reaction if he believes the band is discounting his drinks without permission. The band would be upset if they got paid a percentage of the door and the owner decided to charge no cover for a couple hours trying to get people in. I don't think it was the idea as much as it was the delivery of the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I don't think it was the idea as much as it was the delivery of the message. I assure you it was delivered as "just an idea- whaddya think?"... nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I was just informed by the new management at the restaurant gig I have been doing for 16 years that they expect me to bring in more clientele, and they expect me to be a full band rather than a duo, for the same money, of course. Um....sure, I can make people want to come and eat your food and pay your prices and endure your service just because I'm sitting in a corner playing an acoustic guitar, because as everyone knows, the background music is the main reason people go out to eat. again- haha. well said. I guess next we will have to bring in new burger recipes that the customers had better like.. or else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SwampMusic Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 With the whole % of the till thing, he shifts complete responsibilty for the crowd to you. When it becomes % of the till with a $200 minimum, then he will have some motivation to build the clientele. Unless you're just looking at this as a paid (maybe) practice, I would definitely look to move on. Even as tight as things are, there are too many places (even in rural SC) that will pay a reasonable fee. And full retail for beer and food?!? Oh, hell no. If the beer isn't comped or heavily discounted, I'll either drink water or bring my own. I don't rub the owner's face in it. I just bring along a black fabric cooler that could pass as an equipment bag with a 6 pack of goosenecks in it. There's nothing wrong with either side trying to get the best deal they can, but sometimes the bridge needs to be burnt. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 In the state of PA it is ILLEGAL for an operator to promote sale of alcohol by loweing price, ofering specials, two'fers, etc. Anything that may promote over consumption. I know it is done often with "no" consequence to operators however, should anything happen like an accident, etc, any materials that can show that the operator was promoting over consumption will be used against him. Maybe the owner has been down this road before... Rodrigo Maybe that's something ND should do as well. There are a LOT of drink specials pretty much every night of the week here in Grand Forks (and I'm assuming Fargo and Bismarck as well) and we have been considered the number 1 beer-chugging city in the United States a few years ago. Kramerguy: I'm thinking that you probably didn't approach them "the right way" about your idea. It's best to let bar owners think they came up with it instead, like guido61 said. I've had problems dealing with them myself. I made an innocent comment at one bar back in 2009. I said, "Wow, pretty good crowd tonight, huh?" She whipped her head around and shot back, "HUH! It's *always* packed in here the night of a concert at the casino!" (We were playing in town while the band Staind had a concert that same night.) First of all, I knew it was bull{censored}, because I had been in that bar before when there was a well-known band at the casino and there was hardly anyone there. She implied that it didn't matter if she had a band, had a DJ or nothing at all, it would have been packed. The crowd themselves told me a different story, as many of them heard there was "a good band" at that bar and people from all of the other bars left and went to that particular bar, even though some of them don't like that woman's place (gee, I wonder why? She seems like such a cheerful person! ). I just smiled, since we still hadn't been paid yet and bitched about it later after getting our money. I know you were just trying to be helpful, but sometimes these things can backfire, as you have discovered. I guess it's up to you if you think it's still worth all the effort driving, setting up, playing to no one, tearing down and leaving with almost nothing. Personally, after the bar owner acted like that, I would have told them, "Thanks for everything, but it's time to move on. Good luck." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I assure you it was delivered as "just an idea- whaddya think?"... nothing more. Well, you get credit for trying to help him even if he didn't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Here is the most likely answer: Bar owner is stressed out because business sucks. His perception=musicians are supposed to bring in a crowd. Therefore, he has deflected blame onto you. NOW, you, who are the reason he isn't doing well (in his mind) actually tell him how to run his business. Now you're the asshole. psych degree, mofos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 See, this is where it always ends up when bands assume responsibility for bringing the crowd. He flat out told you his clientele is YOUR responsibility, that he's not going to lift a finger to help, you're an asshole for even suggesting that he do something to help, and it is on YOU to come up with a way to bring more people. The sad thing is, if you tell him to get stuffed, there would be ten more bands lining up for the chance to get the same 'deal' you're getting. {censored} like this happens here, too, and is the main reason retirement is looking better to me every day. I was just informed by the new management at the restaurant gig I have been doing for 16 years that they expect me to bring in more clientele, and they expect me to be a full band rather than a duo, for the same money, of course. Um....sure, I can make people want to come and eat your food and pay your prices and endure your service just because I'm sitting in a corner playing an acoustic guitar, because as everyone knows, the background music is the main reason people go out to eat. {censored}, that's nothing. A bar that we're scheduled for playing New Year's Eve at wants us to play New Year's Day (night?) as well. We were happy...until it was revealed that he wanted us to play the entire weekend for, get this.. $800. So, the deal we're giving him on NYE (which is that same $800) apparently wasn't enough. He wanted us to throw in an extra day for free! After some discussion, the bass player and I agreed that we would do it for $1200 ($400 for the extra day), or stick with the original $800 for NYE only. Keep in mind this bar owner previously hired a band for $1200 for one night. And that night *wasn't* NYE (he just opened the bar in May of this year). I'm still in disbelief. And I'm still not sure if we're playing there at all now (he hasn't gotten back to us yet). On the plus side, if he cancels the gig on us, we have another place that definitely wants us if it opens up. I'll keep you guys posted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 It is not illegal to offer drink specials in PA. I needed proof so I found this online: PENNSYLVANIATitle 40, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuitarPlayerFL Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Keep in mind I'm looking for ways to help fill HIS bar for him. Wet T-shirt contest. Cash prize. The bar will fill with drinking baboons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 While I think it's a great idea for the OP to try his best to promote the venue I think he may have "touched a nerve" with the discount drink coupon. It sounds like your intentions were good but I can understand how the owner could get upset. The closest thing I could equate this to would be if the owner suggested having a promotion one night that the patrons could come up and play your gear. Your gear is your lifeblood in the same way his business is: he probably is just a little touchy about people messing with it. Kudos on the extra effort though. Not many guys are willing to go that extra mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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