Casino - 89db limit

[TIMKEYS]

Good players can make it work under almost any circumstances. Players that "need" volume in order to get their sound, energy, etc. simply just aren't that good, in my experience. I don't play with the biggest group of virtuosos, and certainly they aren't credentialed players, but one of things I like most about them is I know we can get it done under even the most adverse situations. We've had to turn the volume down to conversation-level, but have still been able to keep the energy level high. Takes a certain kind of drummer to be able to do that on an acoustic kit, for sure. I'm still pushing him to get an e-drum kit though.

 

 

Being forced to play with the volume down has made us a tigher band.

[tim_7string]

Our band would be perfect for casinos, because we are all conscious of volume and our own hearing. Our drummer has a great-sounding kit, yet he can play without beating the hell out of it. The other guitarist sometimes plays a little too quietly and the bassist isn't into being the loudest onstage (unlike some other local bass players). And myself, I have always been very conscious of my own onstage volume, be it guitar, keyboards or whatever.

[theAntihero]

Might be 20'. I loaned my db meter to one of the wives in a club we gig at. Anyway, the 107 db was at my keyboards. Pretty much in the middle of things on my side of the stage. (And louder than I personally like.) But if it were 105 db at 3 feet in front of the band than outdoors with no reflective surfaces except for the floor, it would drop to 99 at 6' and 93 at 12 feet. But being that the band isn't really the sound source, that doesn't really apply. And indoors you have ceilings and walls for reinforcement. Taking measurements is the only way to figure out what is really happening. I've always been amazed at how much of a sound drop you get when there's a cross beam supporting the ceiling in the room. (Usually dropping about 18" from the ceiling.) Several of these can take a typical bar band down to conversational level inside of 50'. (I would consider that a plus for a room. You've got to have someplace in a bar where people can hold conversations, or they will leave.) We're going back to the bar that I was thinking about. May just have to do a better job looking at levels and volume drops. Stage is aimed right at the bar. Why do clubs do that?

 

 

Ill never know why they point the stage directly at the bar, its the one place in the entire club that needs to have less volume for drink orders. WE played at one place where our stage vloume came out at about 98db and since the stage is pointed at the bar and all the walls, ceiling and floor are hard surfaces we were told we were extremely loud, under 98db can be pretty hard with hard rock/metal music and an acoustic kit.

 

One the other hand there was a bar is Spokane that had the stage in basically another room than the bar side of things, i thought that was a spectacular idea. Want to listen to music? Go over to the music side. Want to hear a bit of music while you drink? Sit at the bar side.

[theAntihero]

I've always thought that the quiet band could sound just as good turned up and the loud band turned down usually sounded like crap. In previous low volume bands we've placed the PA speakers in the back line and went without monitors. Faster pack up and worked fine. (15 minute pack up back then. 1 hour now.)

 

 

Performance wise yeah, when we were playing with one drummer i used to be able to just shout my backing vocals and be heard very easily without straining my voice and it seemed to make us tighter.

 

But tone wise, there is a lot of re-eqing that has to happen regardless of the instrument you play.

[gspointer]

 

But tone wise, there is a lot of re-eqing that has to happen regardless of the instrument you play.

 

 

Not true with my band.

[mstreck]

So how did the gig go?

Couldn't have gone better, really.

First set - We had people dancing from the first song to the last (a bachelorette party helped) and our sound guy had everything whisper quiet - or so we thought. He received four warnings during the first set - he even took everything out of the mains, so all you could hear out front were our monitors, but the drums were too loud - all he could do was tell John to play quieter.

DJ told us during the break that he loved us. Then he said something else that I couldn't make out over his super-loud break music. The difference was his music was being piped in downward from the ceiling - not pointed towards the outside. Wish we could do that!!!!!

Second set - DJ had kept them on the floor and we opened the set with a country song - Here for the Party - that was a mistake. It cleared the floor and it took us two more songs to get them back (Rolling In the Deep was the winner). We had them from then on out, even though we were playing at a VERY low volume and there was no real "punch" to songs like Sweet Child and You Shook Me. It's hard to "rock out" to those songs when they aren't loud AT ALL.

Next break, DJ comes up and repeats what I couldn't make out before - that we should have been scheduled for next week - NASCAR race weekend. I asked why and he said that out of all the bands that have come through there in the past three years that he's been working there, we were one of the "best" because we kept the crowd by playing modern stuff and not classic rock. He went on to explain that every other band plays "stuff that no one knows" (it's a pretty young crowd in there - mostly early 20's - college kids) and that ever really good bands lose the crowd when everything they play is 30-40 years old.

Third set - this set is almost always a sure-thing, and we kept the crowd again. However, during this set, our drummer's volume started creeping up. And I could tell that our sound guy was creeping up our volume to match him. At that point (15 minutes left) I figured we were never coming back, so I just let it go. We ripped into the modern rock portion of the night and the crowd went into concert mode - not dancing, but lined up in front of us rocking out.

We had to cut the last set short because we were contracted to stop at 1. Everyone was asking for "one more song" so the management told us to go ahead and to "turn it up". :D :D We launched into Enter Sandman - total WIN!

After we were done, the DJ told us that he told the management that we needed to come back and that they needed to do "whatever it took" to get us back there. He must have left an impression, because the woman was smiling when she paid me and we received the full agreed upon rate. No volume fines were taken out (as they should have been per the contract that I signed).

As much as I hated the added stress of a volume limit and the one-hour load in/set up window, it was a pretty good gig overall! It validated our song choices and suggested that maybe we aren't quite the {censored}ty band we thought we were. My bandmates said that if we play there again, we should have the shows spread out that it doesn't become a monthly pain in the ass. I'll contact the venue's booker this week to see what he says about it.

[MickeyKeys]

Couldn't have gone better, really. . .

 

:thu::thu:

[Hegmatronicon]

Glad the gig went well.

The type of gigs where everything is whisper quiet and the drummer is forced to "tap" the drums are not worth doing for me. As much as people like to say on here that if you need it loud to get energy then you arent very good - i disagree totally. There's a reason rock music is played loudly.....whether live or recorded.....it's better. Simple. If i go to see a band playing and they are super quiet and the drummer is tapping along - no matter what they are playing - i'm instantly bored and leave. It just sounds lackluster. I'm not saying everything has to be louder than God......but i'm sick of getting gigs where acoustic drums played at a normal volume - are too loud. In that case...the venue isn't right for full bands and should consider acoustic duo's.

Trying to play stuff like Katy Perry and Ke$ha etc with a full band (drums, guitars, bass and vox) at an extremely low volume is ridiculous and just doesn't work IME. I've done it, and been witness to other bands doing it.....and it never sounds as good as it should/could.

^IMO^

[kmart]

 

I'm not saying everything has to be louder than God......but i'm sick of getting gigs where acoustic drums played at a normal volume - are too loud. In that case...the venue isn't right for full bands and should consider acoustic duo's.

 

 

I agree with this 100%. Believe me, I don't want it THAT loud, ever.

But I want to be able to play my drums like I mean it, not caress them like they're eggs I don't want to break. And no, I don't want to do the gig with brushes or multi-rods, because that's a totally different thing. If I wanted to do that, that's what I'd be doing.

 

I simply abstain.

[WynnD]

Not much more than a good keyboard setup.

 

Define good keyboard setup.

I'm gigging a Roland VK77 organ and a Roland RD 300 GX piano. Ran me about $4000 used not including amps. It's the best stuff I've owned, but is it good? (I expect to be buried with it.)

[TIMKEYS]

I agree with this 100%. Believe me, I don't want it THAT loud, ever. But I want to be able to play my drums like I mean it, not caress them like they're eggs I don't want to break. And no, I don't want to do the gig with brushes or multi-rods, because that's a totally different thing. If I wanted to do that, that's what I'd be doing. I simply abstain.

 

 

what do you do when the band decides it wants to play a good gig with a noise limit?

[kmart]

 

what do you do when the band decides it wants to play a good gig with a noise limit?

 

We don't; never had a single issue where we were told we had to 'keep it down'.

 

We play rock/pop music, and we book/play at venues and locations that understand that means a certain level of volume comes along with the package. Anyone can play dynamically to a certain point with real sticks, still hitting the drums as opposed to tapping them...but a certain amount of volume is generated, period. ONE venue we play at has a drum shield, but that's because they aren't suited for full bands in the first place, and the front of the stage is about 2' away from the end of the bar.

We gig at places that want a band to play as entertainment as the focus, not as background to someone's dinner conversation. I know that's a large part of what you do, but there's plenty of gigs out there that don't require that. My guitarists play with smaller combo amps. Bass player can use a single speaker cab with appropriate head. I play as suited to the room, and it has never been a problem/detriment.

[mstreck]

We still might have the option of playing the room across the hall. I talked to their sound guy yesterday. He said he wants to introduce us to the booking manager. I told him we are more frat party band than casino band and he said that would be just fine.

 

I checked out the place. They have a full stage, PA, and lights setup. It's definitely worth us looking into.

[rodclement]

Congrats on the gig! A big fringe benefit of booking Casinos and other well known venues is that is ups your demand and rates as well. It says a lot about the professionalism of your band in the minds of agents.

Rod

[kanetoads]

Great thread - Sounds to me like your on your way to becoming a pro band..

Your getting a handle on your volume and your changing up your songs to get the audience engaged....seems simple...but how many peeps have been kicked off this forum for simply saying that a band needs to own a sound meter and consider what the audience wants when they play?

[TIMKEYS]

We don't; never had a single issue where we were told we had to 'keep it down'. We play rock/pop music, and we book/play at venues and locations that understand that means a certain level of volume comes along with the package. Anyone can play dynamically to a certain point with real sticks, still hitting the drums as opposed to tapping them...but a certain amount of volume is generated, period. ONE venue we play at has a drum shield, but that's because they aren't suited for full bands in the first place, and the front of the stage is about 2' away from the end of the bar. We gig at places that want a band to play as entertainment as the focus, not as background to someone's dinner conversation. I know that's a large part of what you do, but there's plenty of gigs out there that don't require that. My guitarists play with smaller combo amps. Bass player can use a single speaker cab with appropriate head. I play as suited to the room, and it has never been a problem/detriment.

 

 

 

That is not really what we do. We are a band that entertains during the dinner hour where the front man is very active at working and entertaining the crowd. He does it through conversation and music, not by playing loud and pogo jumping around the stage and hair shaking etc. Its an act that he has been doing as a full time entertainer for like 17 years down here. He has expanded things to include a full band show and a venue. Its a pretty well organized and successful entertainment organization. The band plays house shows, festivals, weddings , street fairs and is getting into hosting events. You need to be able to play at low volumes as well as rock it out loud to do what we do.

[Vito Corleone]

...but how many peeps have been kicked off this forum for simply saying that a band needs to own a sound meter and consider what the audience wants when they play?

I'M still here.

[kmart]

You need to be able to play at low volumes as well as rock it out loud to do what we do .

 

 

But playing to the dinner crowd as I described is PART of what you do; you've said so yourself in numerous posts. Part of that is your front man engaging the audience with conversation and patter, sure.

 

But I'll point out the obvious: there's A WORLD of other options available between what it is that you do and playing uber-loud and "pogo jumping around the stage and hair shaking etc."

 

I/my current bandmates and MILLIONS of others are not interested in doing what it is that you do OR in playing LOUD or pogo jumping around the stage/hair shaking: we're happy and successful doing stuff that falls somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

[WynnD]

The type of gigs where everything is whisper quiet and the drummer is forced to "tap" the drums are not worth doing for me. As much as people like to say on here that if you need it loud to get energy then you arent very good - i disagree totally. There's a reason rock music is played loudly.....whether live or recorded.....it's better.

 

 

As a musician who has played at jukebox level, I disagree. If the music can sound good from the jukebox at that level, then good musicians can play it well at the same level. I love intense music. I'm not too fond of loud music. You shouldn't confuse the two. Recorded example would be the Letters by King Crimson on the Islands album. It starts and ends at a whisper. Don't turn it up or you might blow out your sound system. (Quite a wide level of dynamics in one song that was recorded with analog equipment.) And the song is very intense and will never get radio airplay. (For that matter, don't attempt to listen to it in a running car, you would miss most of the lyrics that way.)

[stratotastic]

gig story

Wow, congrats Mike! Sounds like you killed em. Well done!

Oh and happy belated birthday.

[mstreck]

Wow, congrats Mike! Sounds like you killed em. Well done! Oh and happy belated birthday.

Thank you, sir!

[kmart]

 

As a musician who has played at jukebox level, I disagree. If the music can sound good from the jukebox at that level, then good musicians can play it well at the same level. I love intense music. I'm not too fond of loud music. You shouldn't confuse the two. Recorded example would be the Letters by King Crimson on the Islands album. It starts and ends at a whisper. Don't turn it up or you might blow out your sound system. (Quite a wide level of dynamics in one song that was recorded with analog equipment.) And the song is very intense and will never get radio airplay. (For that matter, don't attempt to listen to it in a running car, you would miss most of the lyrics that way.)

 

 

IMO, comparing the volume level/dynamics of a recorded (jukebox) song vs. a live performance is a bunk effort at best. For all any of us know, the example you noted could have had all the musicians playing at a much greater volume in the studio.

[Hegmatronicon]

 

IMO, comparing the volume level/dynamics of a recorded (jukebox) song vs. a live performance is a bunk effort at best. For all any of us know, the example you noted could have had all the musicians playing at a much greater volume in the studio.

 

 

This.

[Hegmatronicon]

 

As a musician who has played at jukebox level, I disagree. If the music can sound good from the jukebox at that level, then good musicians can play it well at the same level. I love intense music. I'm not too fond of loud music. You shouldn't confuse the two. Recorded example would be the Letters by King Crimson on the Islands album. It starts and ends at a whisper. Don't turn it up or you might blow out your sound system. (Quite a wide level of dynamics in one song that was recorded with analog equipment.) And the song is very intense and will never get radio airplay. (For that matter, don't attempt to listen to it in a running car, you would miss most of the lyrics that way.)

 

 

Right - but what i was saying was - i dont think it DOES sound good coming out of a jukebox at a whisper! I think it lacks energy and gets lost in the background - if thats what you want...good. That's not for me.

 

Also - If we are setting up at a venue and my drummer is tuning his toms - and in the process we get asked to turn it down........the venue get's put on the "thanks but no thanks" list and we dont pursue other gigs there.

[TIMKEYS]

But playing to the dinner crowd as I described is PART of what you do; you've said so yourself in numerous posts. Part of that is your front man engaging the audience with conversation and patter, sure. But I'll point out the obvious: there's A WORLD of other options available between what it is that you do and playing uber-loud and "pogo jumping around the stage and hair shaking etc." I/my current bandmates and MILLIONS of others are not interested in doing what it is that you do OR in playing LOUD or pogo jumping around the stage/hair shaking: we're happy and successful doing stuff that falls somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

 

 

True there are lots of gigs out there that have different requirements. We like to be able to do all of them. Market days street fair gig on saturday from 11am to 2pm. Its outdoors ,, we will turn it up for that one and load back in saturday night and play the regular dinner show at the home dig. I dont see playing quieter as some kind of big sell out to rock and roll. Good bands can sound great turned down.