Members SeniorBlues Posted November 23, 2011 Members Share Posted November 23, 2011 Maybe. But more likely they just went with some guy who was more of a known quantity for the agency. Not that different than applying for any other job to that degree. You might want to try putting together a personal promo pak and hitting the agencies. Tell them your story--that you haven't done it for awhile but you've got the chops, the work ethic, etc. If agencies are looking for players it's most likely going to be to fill a spot in an existing band or putting together a project for a gig they need to fill. Either way they need players that can be ready to go quickly and they won't want to waste time with guys they aren't sure can learn the material and be ready to go fast. So you gotta go out there and sell yourself in that regard.But, yeah...if I was in your shoes that's probably exactly what I'd do: hit up the agencies and see if they know any bands looking for R&B keyboard players. Worse they can do is say "no". Again, at least you're a keyboard player. They probably have STACKS of guitarists promo paks filling the round file..... As you've noted many times, classic rock in clubs and old R&B standards on the corp gigs used to work well until recently. Now it's got to be contemporary. Just last week, I talked to pro drums and guitar who were psyched to do a trio. I downloaded all the stuff they were ready to do . . . . and I just couldn't get interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 23, 2011 Members Share Posted November 23, 2011 No offense, guys, but I really wouldn't want to play in your bands. None taken. And I don't think anyone has ever suggested you should want to play in anyone else's band. You should play in the band you want to play in. I only post my stories to show some paths on how to get from point A to point B. Hopefully you can take what you can and apply your own spices to the recipe. The trick is figuring out A) what sort of band you want to play in and B) how to make it happen. You keep saying you just want to find some like-minded musos and you don't care much about gigging. Well....I dunno. That leaves me scratching my head because I'm not understanding why that should be so difficult. It's not like you're looking to start a band playing only New Zealand Aboriginal Tribal Chants. Blues-based 60s/70s R&B? Maybe it's different back east, but you can't swing a dead cat without knocking over half a dozen of those guys around here... Tim, you mentioned flexibility, and you're absolutely right.I'm not. . . . . well I think I am, but it's still a narrow range in the scheme of things. Well, you may need to re-think that some. Not saying you should be open to playing in a punk rock band or anything, but maybe just work on finding new ways to twist what flexibility you do have and making it work. Cuz I gotta say, for a guy who has had at least half-a-dozen sigs about how "it shouldn't be about the songlist", and for all the comments you've made over the years here about the bands and players who focus on which songs "work" and which don't....you sure do seem to be concerned about which songs YOU'RE willing to play or not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 23, 2011 Members Share Posted November 23, 2011 As you've noted many times, classic rock in clubs and old R&B standards on the corp gigs used to work well until recently. Now it's got to be contemporary. Well it would be harder to start up, that's for sure. I know some great bands doing great work doing the old stuff, but they've all been doing it for years. Someone pretty much has to literally die for a spot to open up in one of those bands. But, that being said....you never know. People DO retire and die. Being in the right place at the right time is a big part of success in this business. We hired a drummer once who ended up being on the road with us for three years simply because he happened to be in the music store when we walked in and said "we need a drummer, fast...who in this town is any good?" and the guy behind the counter pointed at him and said "that guy..." Obviously he had to be good enough to get the gig, but had he not been standing there right then? Someone else likely would have gotten the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2011 Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 Just last week, I talked to pro drums and guitar who were psyched to do a trio. I downloaded all the stuff they were ready to do . . . . and I just couldn't get interested. Just curious---what was the stuff? And you would have been playing left-hand bass with this trio I presume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timrocker Posted November 24, 2011 Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 This issue is the current dilemma of my musical life right now. But, it's not a case of being allergic to the songs that other bands are all playing, it's a case of just being bored to death with songs that are boring. Only real world solution I can point to/hope for is being in a band that keeps the repertoire intact in order to keep doing business, but cycles new and exciting (and risky) songs in, here and there, and out when they don't work. Curious if anyone has worked that approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 24, 2011 Members Share Posted November 24, 2011 And one thing about being a keyboard player---there HAS to be fewer out-of-work keyboard players than any other position. Supply and demand is in our favor. They're getting to be a luxury around here, like a horn player. I'm seeing ever more power trios simply because of then economics. Not for me, though. Gotta have my keyboards and at least a sax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 B) type one can be easier because it puts the needs of the audience right into the goals at the outset. The problem I see so often with bands that claim they don't really care what the audience thinks is that they actually do care and often end up being continually frustrated that the audience isn't digging their pet project band as much as they are themselves. I think some bands make the mistake of trying to change (or worse, "educate") their crowd while playing the same bars they played while doing the covers that go over well. More likely than not, this isn't going to happen. I know that people aren't going to automatically love the Rush and Pink Floyd covers if I were to change the focus of the band on them, yet staying within the same bar circuit we are currently in. It isn't rocket science: find out what bars hire bands, find out what kind of music goes over in those places, learn and perform that kind of music well, get hired, get rehired, rinse, repeat. OR....make the goal of your band that you will do the music YOU want to play, do the research, find *different* places that appreciates YOUR kind of music (say, for example, all NYC punk covers..Ramones, Blondie, Television, etc. or all original songs) and target those places instead. I know that my original songs aren't going to go over in the local bar scene, so there is no reason to play them there. The only exception is if one of my songs were accepted on the iHeart radio playlist approved by the local radio station and it happened to get significant airplay like a few of my peers have done. Then yes, there is a market for that. Otherwise, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think some bands make the mistake of trying to change (or worse, "educate") their crowd while playing the same bars they played while doing the covers that go over well. More likely than not, this isn't going to happen. I know that people aren't going to automatically love the Rush and Pink Floyd covers if I were to change the focus of the band on them, yet staying within the same bar circuit we are currently in. It isn't rocket science: find out what bars hire bands, find out what kind of music goes over in those places, learn and perform that kind of music well, get hired, get rehired, rinse, repeat.OR....make the goal of your band that you will do the music YOU want to play, do the research, find *different* places that appreciates YOUR kind of music (say, for example, all NYC punk covers..Ramones, Blondie, Television, etc. or all original songs) and target those places instead. Agreed. One thing that I've found is true that many bands often overlook (or do backwards): I see a lot of bands start out trying to be the band THEY want to be, and then, often begrudgingly, adjust the band to fit the marketplace as time goes on. I recommend maybe do the complete sell-out thing right from the start, build a following as quickly as possible, and THEN it's easier to start throwing in the more self-indulgent material after you've already got their attention and loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 So... you ever have the 'new songs' discussion, where everyone tosses out what songs they want to do?I have to admit, I used to have the exact same disposition I'm going to complain about now.. I didn't want to play SWA, or Jesse's Girl.. I begrudgely played them at gigs, and soon realized, that for instance SWA is probably one of the best reactions we get all night no matter where we play. I stuck to pushing the "different" songs, something to set us apart from all the other bands.. Some Sponge here, some Tool there.. Even duran duran and the go-go's... We've prided ourselves on being different.. not like every other band.So, I've been paying more and more attention to ourselves and other local bands in our respective class.. and guess what?ALL bands take that exact same approach. I cant find a single band around here that does not add obscure songs in an effort to be different, so in the end, they are all the SAME.. and it's funny how we all do the same obscure songs, too!So I was thinking, why not go against the current, drop the smug purist attitude, totally sell out (since that's against the status quo, right?) and just play what works all night? Not saying to guess at what new hot song might catch or not, but sticking with only the best of the best, the cheesiest of the cheese.. Stuff like pride & joy, Billie Jean, BEG, etc... and yes, even mustang sally.. .. and why does everyone hate MS? Not cause it does poorly, but because it does well damn near every time any band plays it.I'm kind of tired of no dance floor and crickets after the same "obscure" songs every time. I'd rather play SWA and BEG all night and have people dance than play a perfect rendition of an obscure one-hit-wonder and get crickets and atta-boys only from the family & friends section..I'm sure I could come up with 40 songs that are winners.. I'm sure we all could.I'm guessing very few of your obscure songs match ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 In our case, the issue is constant complaining. Imagine if after everytime you play a song in rehearsal said member goes "god I hate that song". It wears on you after awhile. And yes, I am going to have a come to Jesus talk with said member.yes, that and the ones who either mess it up on purpose or just slop thru it because they aren't professional enough to give effort to something they don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 Agreed. One thing that I've found is true that many bands often overlook (or do backwards):I see a lot of bands start out trying to be the band THEY want to be, and then, often begrudgingly, adjust the band to fit the marketplace as time goes on. I recommend maybe do the complete sell-out thing right from the start, build a following as quickly as possible, and THEN it's easier to start throwing in the more self-indulgent material after you've already got their attention and loyalty. LOL. That's us! We starte out playing old school country, and got a ton of critical acclaim...from the three old guys in the bar who like old school country. To be fair...I didn't know any better. We all figured we just needed more practice until I read "the Cover Band" book and started coming here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 LOL. That's us! We starte out playing old school country, and got a ton of critical acclaim...from the three old guys in the bar who like old school country. To be fair...I didn't know any better. We all figured we just needed more practice until I read "the Cover Band" book and started coming here.actually, many places classic country would kill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 actually, many places classic country would kill! A midwest thing again maybe? Out this way, I don't even know if there's even anywhere in Bakersfield (where a lot of "classic country" was created) anymore that you could draw more a handful of people for it. Even Merle Haggard is only playing 1,500 seaters there these days.... http://www.foxtheateronline.com/homepage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 A midwest thing again maybe? Out this way, I don't even know if there's even anywhere in Bakersfield (where a lot of "classic country" was created) anymore that you could draw more a handful of people for it. Even Merle Haggard is only playing 1,500 seaters there these days.... http://www.foxtheateronline.com/homepage maybe east of the Miss? Go down into Missouri, southern Ill, Okla, Texas and then east. Some of those authentic classic country acts do very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 maybe east of the Miss? Go down into Missouri, southern Ill, Okla, Texas and then east. Some of those authentic classic country acts do very well. I play in a americana type band. classic country is great stuff for us , but you cant run a whole show on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 I think Ward probably has the right idea: pack the place doing modern/party country songs and then bring the party along for a great classic tune or two a set rather than playing all classic stuff and trying to slowly build a following for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted November 26, 2011 Members Share Posted November 26, 2011 I've found that the toughest thing to do is actually get the other band members on board. We have 4 of 5 band members on board with playing 100% songs that everybody likes. The 5th has a bad attitude, and will constantly try to put down songs that do really well. For isntance, we'll play Chattahoochie, and he'll always talk about how poorly we play it, or say "The crowds not into it", even though everyone in the audience is singing along. So this band member is smarter, cooler and more distinguished than the rest of you? I would kindly tell him the first time that he is outnumbered and the only one who feels that way and ask him 'how does that sit with you?' The next time there would be no question and the third time I would tell him I've heard enough whining and the fourth time, I would suggest he find a band that felt like he did. The fifth time I would tell him I hope he found that other band because he is no longer in this one. Whiners just ruin it for everyone else and cast a negative pall on the whole group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 So this band member is smarter, cooler and more distinguished than the rest of you? I would kindly tell him the first time that he is outnumbered and the only one who feels that way and ask him 'how does that sit with you?' The next time there would be no question and the third time I would tell him I've heard enough whining and the fourth time, I would suggest he find a band that felt like he did. The fifth time I would tell him I hope he found that other band because he is no longer in this one. Whiners just ruin it for everyone else and cast a negative pall on the whole group.yep, its a poor fit. Its silly to be in a band that doesn't come close to fitting your desires. Nothing wrong with not wanting to be in a band that does all the "stuff for people that don't really like music". But its pretty silly to join that type of band and then try and change it into your own idea of what you want it to be. There's plenty of room for bands that don't cater to the MOR crowd (and certainly a market for it) so just start your own band or join one that is a better fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 actually, many places classic country would kill! Not really. There's a few classic country bands out of Austin that do well, i.e. Dale Watson, but it's just like any other genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 yep, its a poor fit. Its silly to be in a band that doesn't come close to fitting your desires. Nothing wrong with not wanting to be in a band that does all the "stuff for people that don't really like music". But its pretty silly to join that type of band and then try and change it into your own idea of what you want it to be. There's plenty of room for bands that don't cater to the MOR crowd (and certainly a market for it) so just start your own band or join one that is a better fit. To be fair to this member, when we started, we played only hip classic country stuff. That's what WE all listen to most. About last January, I made the conscious decision that I wanted to play in a more commerically viable contemporary country band, since I want to be paid if I'm going to be out at night playing. Everyone agreed that they wanted the same thing, but I could tell this particular member was hesitant. So, it's not like he joined a band he didn't like, the band has changed dramatically. At the same time, we need to move forward, and we can't have a sourpuss holding us back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 I think Ward probably has the right idea: pack the place doing modern/party country songs and then bring the party along for a great classic tune or two a set rather than playing all classic stuff and trying to slowly build a following for it. It seems to be a pretty good formula. Country's like every other genre. If you play just classic rock, you're going to have a hard time. If you play modern stuff and throw in a few classic rock hits, it should work as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 Not really. There's a few classic country bands out of Austin that do well, i.e. Dale Watson, but it's just like any other genre.well I know some who do great. They do a little Paisley, Yoakum, Garth stuff too, but lots of true country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 To be fair to this member, when we started, we played only hip classic country stuff. That's what WE all listen to most.About last January, I made the conscious decision that I wanted to play in a more commerically viable contemporary country band, since I want to be paid if I'm going to be out at night playing. Everyone agreed that they wanted the same thing, but I could tell this particular member was hesitant. So, it's not like he joined a band he didn't like, the band has changed dramatically. At the same time, we need to move forward, and we can't have a sourpuss holding us back. I went through the exact same thing with my band. We made a concious decision to change the type of band we were and all of us were on board with it except one guy. Instead of relaxing into the changes he just kept resisting so he eventually left. I miss him and what he brought to the band musically and I'm sorry he didn't enjoy it more because we're having a lot of fun and making some decent money. But things are what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 To be fair to this member, when we started, we played only hip classic country stuff. That's what WE all listen to most.About last January, I made the conscious decision that I wanted to play in a more commerically viable contemporary country band, since I want to be paid if I'm going to be out at night playing. Everyone agreed that they wanted the same thing, but I could tell this particular member was hesitant. So, it's not like he joined a band he didn't like, the band has changed dramatically. At the same time, we need to move forward, and we can't have a sourpuss holding us back.well, he should just quit and find something that fits better. No use on being a whiner about it, but I certainly understand his disappointment. Bands change all the time. That's a big reason why members change and new bands form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted November 27, 2011 Members Share Posted November 27, 2011 well, he should just quit and find something that fits better. No use on being a whiner about it, but I certainly understand his disappointment. Bands change all the time. That's a big reason why members change and new bands form. You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.