Members New Trail Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I saw a video of the new Kelly Rowland song this morning. It was a pretty decent r&b song, and in the middle instead of a sax or guitar solo like you would have back in the day, or just a bridge part, a guy did a rap part, and I thought to myself "rap is getting predictable." Is an R&B Song with a Rap break the latest cliche? And, if so, when will it end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I dunno. As I said recently in another thread, the rap break has become the new guitar solo. Guitar solo-breaks worked for about 50 years. As long as rap breaks are interesting and entertaining, there's no reason they won't continue to be used in this fashion for a long time to come. Rapping has been around for 30 years now. For anyone under 40 it is as much an accepted part of what is "music" as is hearing a drum kit or a piano. One of the things about why guitar solos worked is that they were often the most interesting part of a lot of songs. Especially as the songs themselves got more simple. I hear that now on a lot of these pop tunes. Personally, I think the best part of Katy Perry's "California Gurls" is the Snoop Dogg rap break. (Of course, we leave that part out because we don't have anybody that can rap ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Rap breaks in R&B songs are nothing new, have been around for years. Listen to the early to mid 80's stuff from groups like Secret Weapon, Indeep(Last Night A DJ Saved My Life), Cameo, etc. Heck, Curtis Blow did some rappin' in Rene & Angela's 1985 single, "Save Your Love For Your #1". It is a common occurrence in this genre that has gained popularity over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Is an R&B Song with a Rap break the latest cliche? Not exactly... ANY song with a rap break is the latest cliche. See "Friday" by Rebecca Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members astone923 Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Rap breaks are the new guitar solos, and auto tune is the new reverb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I will say this. They often release songs both with and without the rap break. I almost always like the one with the rap better (exception, ET by Katy Perry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I mind it less when the offending artist can trace some part of their musical lineage to the South Bronx Circa 1983. It gets more contrived when it's used like this. [video=youtube;Lb9q1ScC4cg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Chaka Khan's version of "I Feel For You", with a break rap from Grandmaster Mellie Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Chaka Khan's version of "I Feel For You", with a break rap from Grandmaster Mellie Mel YUP And they pioneered sampling in the intro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I will say this. They often release songs both with and without the rap break. I almost always like the one with the rap better (exception, ET by Katy Perry) ET was a much better song before Kanye up and ruined it on the single edit. California Girls is BETTER with the Snoop parts. Back to the discussion... Rap breaks have been around a LONG time. "Groove Is In The Heart" had a great one by Q-Tip - what was that, 1990? If you want to go way back, "Rapture" technically has a rap break in it (even though it's performed by the singer). Not a new cliche, but certainly one with legs (like sax solos were before guitar solos were before keyboard solos were).Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 ET was a much better song before Kanye up and ruined it on the single edit. California Girls is BETTER with the Snoop parts.Back to the discussion...Rap breaks have been around a LONG time. "Groove Is In The Heart" had a great one by Q-Tip - what was that, 1990? If you want to go way back, "Rapture" technically has a rap break in it (even though it's performed by the singer). Not a new cliche, but certainly one with legs (like sax solos were before guitar solos were).Brian V. +1 I was going to mention Blondie's "Rapture", but didn't think it would count with there being an actual guitar solo, IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think the OP said the idea of the rap break was NEW, but that it had become cliche. Yeah, it's been around for years. Is it yet cliche? I don't think so. I think there's a lot more that can be done with it before it becomes what guitar solos became in the big-hair 80s. It isn't coincidence that most of the best and most classic guitar solos were recorded years and decades before the whole idea of the guitar solo became passe. They only became cliche when they started to become rote, predictable and lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 +1I was going to mention Blondie's "Rapture", but didn't think it would count with there being an actual guitar solo, IIRC That, and the fact even though I love me some Blondie, Debbie Harry is a horrible rapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think the OP said the idea of the rap break was NEW, but that it had become cliche. Yeah, it's been around for years. Is it yet cliche? I don't think so. I think there's a lot more that can be done with it before it becomes what guitar solos became in the big-hair 80s.It isn't coincidence that most of the best and most classic guitar solos were recorded years and decades before the whole idea of the guitar solo became passe. They only became cliche when they started to become rote, predictable and lame. Maybe not cliche in the "pop/rock" realm, but certainly in the R&B/soul/hip-hop realm. Back in the early-80's(arguably, Fatback's "King Tim The 3rd" circa 1979 was the first rap break in R&B) thru the 90's, you would hear a lot of that stuff on urban radio. Rap was commonplace in those stations back then, but hadn't yet achieved the crossover status of "Rapper's Delight". It was very common to hear raps in R&B songs because pretty much everyone was putting them in their tracks. Rap was fast becoming big in the urban community and this was a way to sell records. Very cliche in the R&B realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted December 1, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2011 It seems like (from my pretty limited exposure to cmmercial R&B stations) the "new" cliche is verses with a lot of fast rapping and then sung choruses with an assload of autotune. It generally sounds awful to me but I already embraced being over the hill so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 RE Jason Aldean: country songs have had rap breaks for decades. There just called recitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 RE Jason Aldean: country songs have had rap breaks for decades. There just called recitations. [video=youtube;QrojFR7jM9E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrojFR7jM9E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 It seems like (from my pretty limited exposure to cmmercial R&B stations) the "new" cliche is verses with a lot of fast rapping and then sung choruses with an assload of autotune. It generally sounds awful to me but I already embraced being over the hill so... This is definitely super cliche right now. The entire BOB album is this. It seems like Rhianna does the chorus for every hip hop song I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 This is definitely super cliche right now. The entire BOB album is this. It seems like Rhianna does the chorus for every hip hop song I hear. Except for the ones sung by Bruno Mars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Except for the ones sung by Bruno Mars... And apparently now Adam Levine..."Stereo Hearts" is getting played every hour on the hour on our Top 40 station. It's driving me NUTS.Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 And apparently now Adam Levine..."Stereo Hearts" is getting played every hour on the hour on our Top 40 station. It's driving me NUTS.Brian V. LOL....nothing like a winning "formula" is this business, I suppose.... they'll crank 'em out until the formula doesn't work anymore and then they'll move on to the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jayare Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 "Give Peace A Chance".....or almost anything by The Inkspots ..from the 40's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MickeyKeys Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Personally, I think the best part of Katy Perry's "California Gurls" is the Snoop Dogg rap break. (Of course, we leave that part out because we don't have anybody that can rap ) LOL, we do the same . . . but I'm actually grateful. Personally I just flat-out hate rap. The only rap I've ever found enjoyable is because it's funny - Will Smith's "Parents Just Don't Understand". Until recently we have been shoehorning a bit of "Rapper's Delight" (I just had to look this up and almost got the name wrong! ) into "Play That Funky Music" after (NOT in place of) the guitar break. I think it's incredibly lame, and sounds contrived and awful. Also, I kept waiting to hear: "Steve walks warily down the street with the brim pulled way down low" . . . another cliche, but it might have kept this from turning into utter s**t. This was our bass player's idea. He performed the vocal. However, he abruptly resigned four days ago after getting his nose out of joint over something he should not have taken personally but did. He originally promised us all in his email to cover gigs until we found someone. A day later, he bailed on us for this Saturday night. Called our front guy only - I found out Tuesday night. I hope to God this crappy idea leaves with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 I've learned to embrace it. Since the existence of this band we've had rap and hip hop in our setlist. It makes up 30%-40% of our setlist every night and it's no surprise to any of us why it's so popular. It's a guaranteed eruption from the audience every time. Even older people. We're not just winging it or getting by. We dive just as deep than if we were learning a Journey, GN'R or Tom Petty song. Resisting would futile... and would be empty too, since more people are dancing to "House of Pain's" Jump Around at our shows than they are to "American Girl". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 LOL, we do the same . . . but I'm actually grateful. Personally I just flat-out hate rap. I think I hated rap for about the first five minutes back when every rocker did when it first hit the scene, but I don't really have much feeling about it one way or the other now. Some of it I think is really good and cool, and some of it I think is stupid and crass (especially most of the 'gangsta' stuff), but I didn't grow up with it so I don't have a real connection to it and I don't think I actually own any rap CDs nor have much interest in buying any. My wife has a few she likes. But I definately agree with Grant about just embracing it and going with it. If it's something that works for the crowds you play for and you can pull it off, then you should do it when/where you can. Just like doing a country tune, I suppose. Actually, Tiffany raps reasonably well for a middle aged white lady, so I plan on taking advantage of that when and where we can. Problem is, there aren't that many classic [female raps and, unlike with sung songs--where I don't really ever mind just having the girls sing the male gender lyrics, (or change the gender if that works better)--most male rap doesn't quite work the same way. Having a girl do the Snoop rap in California Gurls? Nah. Just not feelin' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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