Leaving My Band

[wardjames]

This is more of a explanation than a request for guidance, but I thought I'd post anyway. Sorry for the rambing in advance.

 

So I've made the decision to leave my band and start a new one. We've made incredible strides this year, but we're on incredibly different wavelegnths and it's finally coming to a head. I've come the the conclusion that we're never going to move forward. Here's the issues:

 

1. Differing opinions about what songs we should be playing. To give a little background, we started as a band that played classic country, Merle Haggard, Buck Owens, Bob Wills, etc. in 2009. Desipte making good music, we were getting no audience response, leading to low pay, only bar gigs, etc.

 

At the end of last year I proposed that we play more current country and more audience friendly stuff, because I was sick of playing to empty bars. There was a definite resistance, but I got us to add some stuff "Chattahoochie, Boot Scootin Boogie, etc." that had an immiedate impact, and very shortly were in much higher demand. We did an audio demo this summer, and by the end of summer had some really decent paying gigs, several over the $1000 mark.

 

The frustrating thing is, a couple of the guys have just talked S$%^ about the more popular songs constantly since we've added them. It's like pulling teeth everytime we discuss new songs to add. I constantly have to discuss why we shouldn't add a B-side from so and so's album that someone thinks is cool. As a corrolary, I constantly have to defend our most popular songs, as our bass player inevitably will want to drop them because "they're lame". The straw that broke the camel's back was an email about "Achy Breaky Heart", which is probably in our top five songs as far as crowd reaction goes. Our bass player informed me that he'd rather not play that except at select gigs like private parties, because a real honky tonk band wouldn't play it. In the email chain, the other members basically agreed.

 

So long story short, we're on completely different wavelegnths as to direction. I'd like to play in a band that makes great music and great money, they'd like to play in a band that makes "cool" music.

 

2. Differing levels of effort. My role in the band was to sing 3/4 of the songs, play lead guitar, book gigs, bring the PA, bring lights, and deal with club owners. Everyone else's role was to learn their parts for their instrument. I originally started of playing rhythm guitar and singing...being the frontman. We got rid of our lead guitar player in September. Everytime we audition a new lead player, they're always much better than me, but there's always an excuse as to why we can't at least try them out on an interim basis. Basically everyone's used to a higher pay cut and wants me to play lead and sing, which I don't want to do because (1) I don't have time to do all the other things AND learn guitar parts and (2) my performance as a frontman diminishes significantly when I'm playing lead guitar.

 

3. No willingness to invest in band. At the beginning of this year, we made a commitment to invest in things like marketing, lights, PA stuff, etc. Well, none of its happened, as everyone would rather just take home all their money. So I've just bought all the stuff myself. I also frequently find myself getting asked to front band members money prior to gigs like I'm a bank. I'm willing to put in a couple grand to get a top notch audio, video, website combination going, but it doesn't make sense if I'm getting an equal cut with everyone else.

 

4. Taking too long to learn material. I'm the kind of guy who can learn 8 new songs a month and have them ready to go in one shot. No one else in the band is. It's frustrating taking three practices to get a song to a workable condition.

 

I'm now going to go out and start my own band fresh. I feel like I've made, and learned from, a lot of mistakes over the last couple of years. Hopefully I'll have a much shortened learning curve in getting a new project up and running. I'm interviewing new players, and actually trying to get guys with successful Top 40 band cover experience, rather than cycling through the country band community. The guys I've interviewed thus far seem to be on the same page. I'm excited to try to get things going, and looking forward to the new project.

[Vito Corleone]

Sounds like you're making the right move for the right reasons. Good luck! Nothing is worse than working with people who want equal say and equal pay but aren't willing to take on equal responsibility. Not everyone can be the leader, but at least don't stand in the way of those who are!

 

Will you be able to keep the same name for the band? I think it's a great name for what you do and you've already built some rep with it. Be a shame to lose out on some of the hard work you've done to this point.

[wardjames]

 

Sounds like you're making the right move for the right reasons. Good luck! Nothing is worse than working with people who want equal say and equal pay but aren't willing to take on equal responsibility. Not everyone can be the leader, but at least don't stand in the way of those who are! Will you be able to keep the same name for the band? I think it's a great name for what you do and you've already built some rep with it. Be a shame to lose out on some of the hard work you've done to this point.

 

 

Dave:

 

I could keep the name if I pushed it. I came up with it as well as the logo prior to the involvement of any current members. That being said, I'm not sure it's a gigantic benefit, rep wise. Most people on the corporate and casual calls we've got don't know us from adam except through Gigmasters or an internet search. Also, I'm wondering if the drinking connotation is going to hold me back from higher end stuff as opposed to a name like "Pure Country", "Gone Country", etc.

 

The real rep we have with that name is with bars, and that's a place I want to get out of playing.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Dave: I could keep the name if I pushed it. I came up with it as well as the logo prior to the involvement of any current members. That being said, I'm not sure it's a gigantic benefit, rep wise. Most people on the corporate and casual calls we've got don't know us from adam except through Gigmasters or an internet search. Also, I'm wondering if the drinking connotation is going to hold me back from higher end stuff as opposed to a name like "Pure Country", "Gone Country", etc. The real rep we have with that name is with bars, and that's a place I want to get out of playing.

 

 

If you go with gone country you should check to see if its trademarked. I do know that anything with ville and rita draws the attention of jimmy b's legal team. good luck on your new project.

[rangefinder]

 

Sounds like you're making the right move for the right reasons. Good luck!

 

 

+1 to this. From your posts it seems like you have your head on straight. I'd expect you to do well as a frontman/leader for a fresh band.

[modulusman]

Wardjames you sound like a good guy to be in a band with. If you do your own thing make sure that you set the ground rules early and get paid for all the extras you do. Good Luck.

[Old Fart Rocker]

Damn, wish I was in San Diego. I've really been wanting to join a country band lately. Over the past year I've been listening to more country, mostly the newer stuff. I know, I know, it's not REAL country. But the bottom line is I enjoy the music and the crowds seem to like it too. My dance/party band added 6 or so newer country tunes to the song list in case we need them for an event and I must say those are some of my favorite songs we do.

 

Good luck on getting the new band together!!! I absolutely believe you are making the right decision.

[MartinC]

I think you might want to consider that the current band is your band. You are carrying the load and should already have the final say as to pretty much everything. You could call a meeting and just tell everyone how it is and if you don't like it, sorry. Maybe you can hold onto a key player or two, the name, the web stuff, etc. They may all walk out the door, but that's what you'll be doing anyway.

 

If I'm you, and you chose to start over, I'd make it clear from the start, it's your band and they are sidemen or you could find yourself in the same position very soon. Expecting to find guys that want to invest, and all happen to share the same vision is possible, but it's way easier to just get great players and tell them, you get x a gig.

 

When I started my group, I had a clear vision of the type of music I wanted to play, a small PA and a steady gig. I was able to get top players by doing a steady weekdays only gig, since they seldom worked during the week. I've certainly made a lot of compromises over the years(next year the group will be 20 years old), but the thing that has kept the group together more than any other one thing has been my ability to get work.

 

Take that away , and despite the fact that we all enjoy each other's company and the music, there is no group. When I book a gig, I have the ability to hire anyone I want to do that gig. I always call the main guys first, but have other options. And I don't even sing. You sing, you can play rhythm and lead, have a PA, have a clear vision of what you want to play, and can get gigs. You don't need a band, you need players.

[wardjames]

Thanks guys. I've really learned a lot from this forum and I finally feel like I'm not going to be held back from implementing it. The gigs I've been able to get recently will allow me to pay other players twice what they'd get in bars while at the same time allowing me to get paid for the extra work and investment. I think it's a win-win.

[TrickyBoy]

Good luck! I think the key is being as upfront with everyone as possible regarding what you envision the new project being. I think you'll have no problem finding good musicians who are like-minded. Honestly, I'd almost sell it in the context of "We want to be the country version of a wedding band. We'll play all well know tunes that go over great. None of this playing obscure b-side bull{censored} because it's"cool"."

[wardjames]

 

I think you might want to consider that the current band is your band. You are carrying the load and should already have the final say as to pretty much everything. You could call a meeting and just tell everyone how it is and if you don't like it, sorry. Maybe you can hold onto a key player or two, the name, the web stuff, etc. They may all walk out the door, but that's what you'll be doing anyway. If I'm you, and you chose to start over, I'd make it clear from the start, it's your band and they are sidemen or you could find yourself in the same position very soon. Expecting to find guys that want to invest, and all happen to share the same vision is possible, but it's way easier to just get great players and tell them, you get x a gig. When I started my group, I had a clear vision of the type of music I wanted to play, a small PA and a steady gig. I was able to get top players by doing a steady weekdays only gig, since they seldom worked during the week. I've certainly made a lot of compromises over the years(next year the group will be 20 years old), but the thing that has kept the group together more than any other one thing has been my ability to get work. Take that away , and despite the fact that we all enjoy each other's company and the music, there is no group. When I book a gig, I have the ability to hire anyone I want to do that gig. I always call the main guys first, but have other options. And I don't even sing. You sing, you can play rhythm and lead, have a PA, have a clear vision of what you want to play, and can get gigs. You don't need a band, you need players.

 

 

Yep, I'm definitely going to be up front with people on that end. To be fair, it's not the fault of the guys in my current band. In reality, I've changed from when we started the band, not them. That's why I don't feel comfortable having a meeting and saying it's my way or the highway. I'd rather just move on myself. Plus, when you have those meetings, I feel like they'd say "OK Ward, we're on board" (because the money's good), but then we'd be in the same place 3 months later. Better to just cut ties and leave as friends.

[wardjames]

 

Good luck! I think the key is being as upfront with everyone as possible regarding what you envision the new project being. I think you'll have no problem finding good musicians who are like-minded. Honestly, I'd almost sell it in the context of "We want to be the country version of a wedding band. We'll play all well know tunes that go over great. None of this playing obscure b-side bull{censored} because it's"cool"."

 

 

Yep, that's pretty much how the craigslist ad is going to read. I'm actually going to target guys who are in or have been in Top 40 bands, but are willing to do country. There's no Top 40 style country bands, and I think the potential is huge, given the success of the genre as a whole.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Good luck! I think the key is being as upfront with everyone as possible regarding what you envision the new project being. I think you'll have no problem finding good musicians who are like-minded. Honestly, I'd almost sell it in the context of "We want to be the country version of a wedding band. We'll play all well know tunes that go over great. None of this playing obscure b-side bull{censored} because it's"cool"."

 

 

I'm always amazed by how many special requests we get to learn country songs for weddings. I have no problem doing them, but I'm always just left thinking "if they wanted a country band, why didn't they just HIRE one?"...

 

...perhaps there's not enough good country bands targeting that market....

[Agitator]

 

The frustrating thing is, a couple of the guys have just talked S$%^ about the more popular songs constantly since we've added them. It's like pulling teeth everytime we discuss new songs to add. I constantly have to discuss why we shouldn't add a B-side from so and so's album that someone thinks is cool.

Man, I hate that {censored}.

 

I've just started a new band with a few members of my other band. The other (ska) band is still gigging, but this is a stripped-down four-piece with no horns, and we're concentrating on soul, reggae and funk.

 

The keyboardist is a good friend of mine. We played together (with the drummer, too) and released an album in the 90s, and he's toured internationally with Jamaican artists.

 

I like playing with him but he's exactly the same way. "I'm so sick of playing the same old songs", blah blah blah. We're trying to get a rotating cast of vocalists to sit in with us from gig to gig, and a friend of mine sent in some suggestions that she'd like to sing, and Keyboardie is like "That's too poppy... that one is from 1976, I thought we were doing stuff from the early 70s and 60s" etc. I just want to play stuff that grooves, that people will enjoy. I don't want to turn into a greatest hits band, but I want to play enough recognizable stuff that we can appeal to a wider audience than our immediate circle of music geek friends.

 

Long story short... I'm just hijacking your thread to vent (and empathize). Our band is much less serious than yours -- my only goal is to get a regular gig (weekly, monthly or biweekly) where we can jam and have a good time -- but at the same time, if this keeps up, It's going to come to conflict at some point, and I hate that {censored}.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I'm always amazed by how many special requests we get to learn country songs for weddings. I have no problem doing them, but I'm always just left thinking "if they wanted a country band, why didn't they just HIRE one?"... ...perhaps there's not enough good country bands targeting that market....

 

 

I think there are enough good country bands, but the really good ones tend to also dabble in original stuff as well and may have their focus on things like festivals and opening for big league country acts. I dont think any of them would turn down a wedding reception gig though,, but they may not play the variety that the typical wedding reception takes.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I think there are enough good country bands, but the really good ones tend to also dabble in original stuff as well and may have their focus on things like festivals and opening for big league country acts. I dont think any of them would turn down a wedding reception gig though,, but they may not play the variety that the typical wedding reception takes.

 

 

A country band that seriously wants to target weddings would probably do best to learn a few classic rock and R&B standards just to cover the variety. But I think there IS a good market for "Top 40 Country" out there. Ward's on the right track and seems to have the smarts and drive to pull it off. There's a couple of pretty good ones up this way already, including one in Sacramento that goes by "Gone Country", so that name is probably out for him. Down south might be more wide open though.

[FitchFY]

It sounds like a valid change for you, Ward. It also sounds like you've got some great ducks in a row right now for a very succesful swing at things. Best of luck!

[rhino55]

FWIW, I really like the name and logo.

[TIMKEYS]

 

A country band that seriously wants to target weddings would probably do best to learn a few classic rock and R&B standards just to cover the variety. But I think there IS a good market for "Top 40 Country" out there. Ward's on the right track and seems to have the smarts and drive to pull it off. There's a couple of pretty good ones up this way already, including one in Sacramento that goes by "Gone Country", so that name is probably out for him. Down south might be more wide open though.

 

 

Not sure if i can picture ward doing lady gaga stuff ....

[wardjames]

Not sure if i can picture ward doing lady gaga stuff ....

 

I think you just can't read my poker face!

 

I'm moving in the direction of weddings and learning some R&B and Rock for them. Brown Eyed Girl, Sweet Child of Mine, Pretty Woman, Sweet Home Alabama, Old Time R&R, Wonderful Tonight, Legs, etc.? No reason I can't do those.

[wardjames]

 

I'm always amazed by how many special requests we get to learn country songs for weddings. I have no problem doing them, but I'm always just left thinking "if they wanted a country band, why didn't they just HIRE one?"... ...perhaps there's not enough good country bands targeting that market....

 

 

There's a lot of good country bands...but they almost ALL play "Old School" Country. Younger crowds want to hear modern country. To them, classic country is Boot Scoot Boogie and Chattahoochie.

 

There's very few bands with a Top 40 mentality, so I think I've got an interesting niche by adopting the same mentality as corporate and wedding bands.

[TIMKEYS]

I think you just can't read my poker face! I'm moving in the direction of weddings and learning some R&B and Rock for them. Brown Eyed Girl, Sweet Child of Mine, Pretty Woman, Sweet Home Alabama, Old Time R&R, Wonderful Tonight, Legs, etc.? No reason I can't do those.

 

We play a few drive by beach weddings down here and mix country with some older rock... we are your worst nightmare if you are looking for a traditional wedding band. But it is south texas and we do a good deal of original music , thats really why the band exists. We get hired by people who are fans of the band. They love it when the people from the left coast get terrorized with a little good natured texas humor. Our band leader has been a top solo act down here for years and formed a backing band. The guy is a great singer... without his vocals it would be just another band.

[wades_keys]

 

Dave: I could keep the name if I pushed it. I came up with it as well as the logo prior to the involvement of any current members. That being said, I'm not sure it's a gigantic benefit, rep wise. Most people on the corporate and casual calls we've got don't know us from adam except through Gigmasters or an internet search. Also, I'm wondering if the drinking connotation is going to hold me back from higher end stuff as opposed to a name like "Pure Country", "Gone Country", etc. The real rep we have with that name is with bars, and that's a place I want to get out of playing.

 

I'd join your band with a quickness. 8 songs a month? {censored} dude, I'll chew threw 8 songs in 2 days. I could be gig ready with you guys in a week. Wanna play new country? Cool. Play that funky music? Cool.

 

Where do I sign up?

[trevcda]

I always liked the name Southbound and Down, a play on "Eastbound and down". Plus- Jerry Reed was good enough to write you a theme song already! Not really a country guy, but always found that to be a really catchy damn chorus. Plus it's the theme to Smokey and the Bandit! Damn... now that song is stuck in my head for the weekend. I'll spare you all and not post a link. It's your fault if you go looking! Have a great weekend everybody!

[stratotastic]

Hey Ward, just wanna chime in and say good luck. Sounds like you're making the right move. You seem like a good guy and I always like your posts. I'm sure whatever you do will work out in the end.