Moderators BATCAT Posted March 23, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2012 It depends on the style, but I love me some growl-ey, bright bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 I would have read this thread if it wasn't about bass players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 lol. You know, the other night I really laid back and leaned on the band more, and people really clapped afterward. I made a joke that everyone claps more the less I play. hahaha. Honestly though there might be something in here that BB talks about. Instead of playing a million notes a bar, but just a few right ones. He's made a career I think by letting lot's of room in the song.(he's got a big band) I am trying to do that more these days, along with an idea that If I let the band come up, let them come though, especially if they do a certain part better, like a turn around, no reason I need to play over them. Good musicians seem to step in a help, but if the other guy sounds better, why step on him. I played with a drummer that was just fantastic, it's like he could play the song back there tonally. Give that guy some room. +10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah... I know. That's cool too. But that is very clearly a deliberate, bold and artistic choice. I get it. I've played with that tone for certain groups. But what makes it is it isn't extended frequency. It still rolls off at 4k or so. There's a lot of 4k... but it does roll off. It's the guys who are putting out this 8k and above crap that I really hate. Like it's some hi-fi thing. Ick. Everybody go to your bass players cab and turn down the attenuator that reads something like "High" or "Tweeter". All the way down. Do it while he's getting a beer. Then he'll come back and play the next set and say, "Man, my amp sounds awesome. What happened?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 Less is certainly more when it comes to soloing, IMO. My alltime favorite rock soloist has always been David Gilmour for precisely that reason. The guy can say more with 3 notes than so many other players can say with 300. Keep it simple and make it MEAN something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 A man after my own heart. The worst thing that could've ever happened to bass gear happened. The started putting tweeters in bass cabs. WTF?!?!?! A bass should be solid at 60 Hz. Punch out a 700-900 Hz, and roll off at 3 or 4k. I've always hated horns in my bass cabs. No highs are better than harsh, directional highs. That being said I like a pretty wide high-mid cut that keeps a little bit of highs to maintain definition. It all depends on what the arrangement is. Good EQ for bass in a guitar/bass/drums trio is totally different from what you'd want with two guitar players or guitar and keys. Same for playing with fingers vs a pick. Here's a theory: bass players wouldn't need a low B string if they had good, solid tone to begin with. Ask yourself, which came first horns in bass cabs and hi-fi EQ or the low B string? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 Less is certainly more when it comes to soloing, IMO. My alltime favorite rock soloist has always been David Gilmour for precisely that reason. The guy can say more with 3 notes than so many other players can say with 300. Keep it simple and make it MEAN something. +1000 One of my top 5 favorites in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 Here's a theory: bass players wouldn't need a low B string if they had good, solid tone to begin with. Ask yourself, which came first horns in bass cabs and hi-fi EQ or the low B string? That's like saying guitar players wouldn't need all those stupid pedals if they had any talent whatsoever. The low B sting is just another tool. You make it sound redundant. Horns? Hi-fi EQ (whatever that is)? Low B string? I'll take (and have) all of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 The low B sting is just another tool. It's more than just another "tool". It's the only way to hit certain notes. The lowest octave on my piano isn't just another "tool". It's how you play notes A0 thru Ab1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steveosplace Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 A bass player needs to know where the song is and where the chord changes are... if he doesn't then he's not performing his fundamental role. Not that I dont screw up from time to time but I put counting first (when its needed) even though its not fun, and jumping around onstage second. Nothing sounds worse than the wrong bass note at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 That's like saying guitar players wouldn't need all those stupid pedals if they had any talent whatsoever. The low B sting is just another tool. You make it sound redundant. Horns? Hi-fi EQ (whatever that is)? Low B string? I'll take (and have) all of the above. An argument could be made about the pedals. But that's a different subject. Look, I'm a bass player too, have been for 20 years. And I have a 5 string that I use when called for. But I almost never need it if I have a good low-end tone to begin with, rather than a mid boosted tone with a weak fundamental. I'd never say that notes lower than low E are useless, but I do think that adding in more mids and highs to bass tones led a lot of players to play lower notes (C at the 1st fret on the B string instead of the 3rd fret on the A string for example) in order to try to reinforce the low end they were EQing out in the first place. I think the same thing is true with what's happening with guitar currently. Most people playing 7 and 8 string guitars would be better off with a different EQ setup and a bass player with better tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jmarcus2 Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 I never gave bass players much thought until I got in front of a three piece where the bass player was weak. It's amazing how much a good one will hold up the song and reduce the workload for the guitar player/singer. Hmmmph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'd never say that notes lower than low E are useless, but I do think that adding in more mids and highs to bass tones led a lot of players to play lower notes (C at the 1st fret on the B string instead of the 3rd fret on the A string for example) in order to try to reinforce the low end they were EQing out in the first place. I think the same thing is true with what's happening with guitar currently. Most people playing 7 and 8 string guitars would be better off with a different EQ setup and a bass player with better tone. Sorry, but I gotta chime in here... I chose a 7-string guitar for the ability to play lower notes without retuning a guitar. I like the other 6 strings on a guitar. I just wanted to add another option to it. It had absolutely ZERO to do with trying to solve an EQ problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted March 23, 2012 Members Share Posted March 23, 2012 I chose a 7-string guitar for the ability to play lower notes without retuning a guitar. I like the other 6 strings on a guitar. I just wanted to add another option to it. It had absolutely ZERO to do with trying to solve an EQ problem. You may be the exception, but a lot of players who keep tuning lower and lower wouldn't have to if they had better bass players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 You may be the exception, but a lot of players who keep tuning lower and lower wouldn't have to if they had better bass players. Sorry, but I think must be missing something here. A note is a note. Our bass player plays a 5-string which is essential because on a lot of the modern pop stuff we do with synth bass lines, there's a lot of low Ds and C#s and whatnot. IIRC, even "Sledgehammer", which we played years ago, had a bass line with a low "B" in it. The note is the note. You can't really play the same note by playing just it an octave higher with some great tonez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 In the classic rock band I play with I use my 4-string basses. With my country band I use the 5s because alot of the newer country stuff requires it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 A man after my own heart. The worst thing that could've ever happened to bass gear happened. The started putting tweeters in bass cabs. WTF?!?!?! A bass should be solid at 60 Hz. Punch out a 700-900 Hz, and roll off at 3 or 4k. God i hate tweeters in bass cabs, no matter what eq setting you use you always get this wheezy, shrill yet harsh treble that sounds like a earbud at the bottom of a tin can at full volume. They dont add clarity, they add suck to the tone, plus if you are operating at a freq that you need a tweeter to reproduce, bass is not what you are playing. Im odd like that though, i find that the bass guitar should add bass to mix of the band. Im lucky that my bass player is a fan of a tone that can only be described as a "tonal earthquake". An Eb-0 with flatwounds, played with a rubber pic, through a stack i custom built him tuned at around 48hz, 1000w of power and even an octave down effect leaves a massive, massive,MASSIVE footprint and in a trio it sounds fantastic. Its sort of sad though because i cant tell you how many times after being told we sound huge for a trio i was asked what special things i did as the guitarist to make us sound so huge and the person being befuddled after i told him a big bass tone goes a long way in a trio. Often they would ask me repeatedly for my secrets and maybe, in desperation, ask the drummer for his as well and never ask my bass player. In fact if i kept repeating that big bass tone etc was the secret id get Yeah, but he's too bassy for what i like as a bass tone, i barely hear him over the groove or I cant hear his runs over the groove. Im in a 3 piece band with, at the time, a drummer who loves Ginger Baker, exactly where in the f*ck do you think the groove is coming from? Do you think i have a rhythm section hidden in my pickup cavity? Do you think the Groove Fairy has graced us with its presence? Perhaps you think i have the Spirits of Bass Players Past tuned in on my amp? Or maybe, just maybe, the groove is coming from the bass player, you know that guy that plays too "bassy"(as if it was possible) for a bass player. Actually at the moment im sort of terrified as he picked up his 1st 5 string bass, i dont know if some of the bars we play at can handle that much bass without exploding, may god have mercy on our souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yeah... I know. That's cool too. But that is very clearly a deliberate, bold and artistic choice. I get it. I've played with that tone for certain groups. But what makes it is it isn't extended frequency. It still rolls off at 4k or so. There's a lot of 4k... but it does roll off. It's the guys who are putting out this 8k and above crap that I really hate. Like it's some hi-fi thing. Ick.Everybody go to your bass players cab and turn down the attenuator that reads something like "High" or "Tweeter". All the way down. Do it while he's getting a beer. Then he'll come back and play the next set and say, "Man, my amp sounds awesome. What happened?" Yeah, I don't see it working out that way, in my own case... I gig a Mesa M-p 600/ PH810 rig, and set my horn attenuator @ -2db, with my crossover set @ it's highest setting... I don't like alot of horn, but also don't like the sound of my cab without any at all - and would notice that right away... I also wouldn't be very happy with a bandmate that decided to make adjustments to my gear without telling me - as I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it, either... I don't like an overly bright bass sound, but do like a little highs - since it fits the modern rock/metal genre I typically cover, and helps me to hear my notes in a band mix... Another value to approaching things as I do is, by having enough highs with my cab's settings(instead of my amp's EQ), means that my DI send doesn't end up being overly bright - so, I can hear myself on stage well enough, yet the soundman gets a good sounding send he doesn't have to fight... Now, when I'm playing classic rock, blues, southern rock/modern country - I use a 215, and don't use nearly as much high end... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 God i hate tweeters in bass cabs, no matter what eq setting you use you always get this wheezy, shrill yet harsh treble that sounds like a earbud at the bottom of a tin can at full volume. They dont add clarity, they add suck to the tone, plus if you are operating at a freq that you need a tweeter to reproduce, bass is not what you are playing. It depends - cheap horns and crappy crossovers do exactly what you're describing, but high end cabs with quality horns and crossovers generally don't have the overly bright, harsh sound you're describing... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I've always hated horns in my bass cabs. No highs are better than harsh, directional highs. That being said I like a pretty wide high-mid cut that keeps a little bit of highs to maintain definition. It all depends on what the arrangement is. Good EQ for bass in a guitar/bass/drums trio is totally different from what you'd want with two guitar players or guitar and keys. Same for playing with fingers vs a pick. Here's a theory: bass players wouldn't need a low B string if they had good, solid tone to begin with. Ask yourself, which came first horns in bass cabs and hi-fi EQ or the low B string? Depends on the genre - I play alot of modern rock, and spend about half my typical night playing songs that require a low Db, C, and B... EQ has nothing to do with it, if the song requires those notes... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would be happy to play all my gigs with my little shuttle combo amps and let my PA do all the work. I can get all the low-end I need out of the subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would be happy to play all my gigs with my little shuttle combo amps and let my PA do all the work. I can get all the low-end I need out of the subs. Yep. My bass player has been using a little SWR combo or something like that and running a line out to the PA. I've downsized to a 15 watt amp and do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I just like the ones where I have the number of their probation officer. Damn!!! Gotta clean the SNOT off my computer screen !Now where is that freaking number anyway?I just had the damned thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yep. My bass player has been using a little SWR combo or something like that and running a line out to the PA. I've downsized to a 15 watt amp and do the same thing. I have played without an amp.Just a DI and blow bass back through the monitors.Requires a decent monitor rig,and can't be done if the guitar rig is a dimed 50 watt 1/2 stack,but when it can be done stage volume is usually near perfect.Those smaller wattage tube amps(for guitar)are perfect for club work IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would be happy to play all my gigs with my little shuttle combo amps and let my PA do all the work. I can get all the low-end I need out of the subs. I prefer to play thru a good sized rig - most of the time, we play clubs that have house sound and lights, and although those clubs have plenty of subs, they rarely have monitors that will handle bass very well... Furthermore, my band is a loud modern rock/metal band - besides a pounder for a drummer, I have a Triple Rec halfstack on either side of the stage... I'm better off knowing that I have enough rig to hear myself well on stage, and not depending on anyone else... I also really like the way my rig sounds, and enjoy playing thru it... Since we're not hauling PA, and our backline is trucked in, this setup has worked well *for me* for the last couple of years... Our crowd likes to get right up front to the stage, and is used to a big, loud backline - to each their own, though... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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