Members Vito Corleone Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 Well, there's Adele...even though I think she's attractive. And once again...when you have a voice like THAT.... And the thing is that even with Adele--who hasn't tried to make "use" of her weight the same way Mama Cass or Meat Loaf did---there's a big sense of her being the "exception to the rule". Everyone knows Adele is a bigger girl. It's part of who she is. You almost never hear a mention of her without somebody mentioning that she ISN'T a typical pop-tart. The "fool's gold" here, however, is that whenever one of these "exceptions to the rule" comes along, many people seem to think it's going to open the floodgates and now suddenly every fat chick with a good voice will have a better shot at stardom than she did before. It doesn't work that way. It seems the public really LIKES having certain "exceptions" to point to now and again, but we don't want to turn them into the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 Here we go.... I love on these threads how people run out of things to say and immediately start citing examples in pop culture in relation to a local crowd of 25 in a bar. These threads always derail from situations of a local cover band trying to improve their game to an analysis of how celebrities are born, bred and survive. Is there anything remotely similar to someone playing in a local bar and has to wake up early for their 10am shift at Mr. Slurpee, versus the megastar who has a stylist, manager, entourage and is swept away by a limo after every performance. Let's keep it real people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 Here we go.... I love on these threads how people run out of things to say and immediately start citing examples in pop culture in relation to a local crowd of 25 in a bar. These threads always derail from situations of a local cover band trying to improve their game to an analysis of how celebrities are born, bred and survive. Is there anything remotely similar to someone playing in a local bar and has to wake up early for their 10am shift at Mr. Slurpee, versus the megastar who has a stylist, manager, entourage and is swept away by a limo after every performance. Let's keep it real people! The 'real', though, is for every truism or rule anybody in a successful bar band wants to make/cite/cling to, the exceptions noted smash them to bits. Why? Because the talent trumps all that nonsense. In response to me posting a picture of Meatloaf, I got responses of "If you can sing like that", yada yada yada... Well... EXACTLY. The reason those exceptions became successful had nothing to do with how they looked, what they weighed, how ugly they were. NOR did it have a single thing to do with what song they mashed up with which other one, how many current top 10 songs were in their set last night, how many fans they had on their FaceBook pages, etc. They became successful because they were amazing talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 The 'real', though, is for every truism or rule anybody in a successful bar band wants to make/cite/cling to, the exceptions noted smash them to bits. Why? Because the talent trumps all that nonsense. In response to me posting a picture of Meatloaf, I got responses of "If you can sing like that", yada yada yada... Well... EXACTLY. The reason those exceptions became successful had nothing to do with how they looked, what they weighed, how ugly they were. NOR did it have a single thing to do with what song they mashed up with which other one, how many current top 10 songs were in their set last night, how many fans they had on their FaceBook pages, etc. They became successful because they were amazing talents. All true... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 The reason those exceptions became successful had nothing to do with how they looked, what they weighed, how ugly they were. NOR did it have a single thing to do with what song they mashed up with which other one, how many current top 10 songs were in their set last night, how many fans they had on their FaceBook pages, etc.They became successful because they were amazing talents. Yeah, but it STILL took careful marketing of their looks. Again, Meat Loaf called himself "Meat Loaf." The Mamas and the Papas sing a song with the lyric "everyones getting fat except Mama Cass." Both acts --- even way back then and even with those great voices --- decided they needed to try to turn a negative-into-a-positive. It wasn't just a "{censored} how I look, nobody will care because its all about the music" attitude. Going back to what I said before--people love to pull out the exceptions and think it means that all the rules must not ACTUALLY mean anything. Except when you look carefully at the 'exceptions' you usually see they put as much effort into playing by the rules as the rules-players did. They just twisted it around backwards or inside out or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 Here we go.... I love on these threads how people run out of things to say and immediately start citing examples in pop culture in relation to a local crowd of 25 in a bar. These threads always derail from situations of a local cover band trying to improve their game to an analysis of how celebrities are born, bred and survive. Is there anything remotely similar to someone playing in a local bar and has to wake up early for their 10am shift at Mr. Slurpee, versus the megastar who has a stylist, manager, entourage and is swept away by a limo after every performance. Let's keep it real people! What? You mean platinum-selling exceptions don't prove the rule? Killjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 I took the comment more literally. I know I don't want to sacrifice a lot in my life just to be in a band that makes $15,000 a gig. Even if we were making $5000/night, it would involve some serious travel on the road and that's something I just don't want to do anymore. So, I would be under that category of "not everybody wants to be that band." I don't want to play every weekend. I don't want to play every night. I don't want to change the style of music I play. I did a lot of that years ago and I'm happy with my current situation. Put into this context, I can agree with you. I'm certainly not willing to travel more or radically increase the number of gigs on my schedule for greater financial success either. In my mind, it all boils down to efficiency. For the sake of discussion - let's take travel and quantity of gigs off the table - and think in terms of two "commuter" bands (i.e., both playing within an hour of home) and playing the similiar # of gigs per month. There are plenty of bands that fit this basic mold. Some of those bands consistently work gigs that pay very well - while others consistently work gigs that pay poorly. I know that bands like this exist because I've played in them. In my experience - the better paid band doesn't work harder than the lessor paid band. What has always jumped out at me is that the better paid bands have always worked smarter. They've developed a truly marketable product (their show), they've had a much more focused marketing plan, they've been effective at creating a band brand. They were good at identifying what needed to be done, when it needed to be done - and most importantly, at actually getting it done !! The better bands have effective leadership - guys who a) can see the big picture and can lay out a course of what needs to be done to order for the group to be successful and equally important, b) they were able to lead their bandmates in a direction. The better bands have leadership that figures out how to motivate bandmates and get a contribution from everybody. (leadership. A bandleader that tries to rely on his "title" of bandleader to set direction and motivate his bandmates ain't a leader in my book. A real bandleader commands the respect of confidence of his bandmates based on the quality of his ideas and the strength of his leadership. Put in that context - I can't think of anybody who willingly chooses the "low pay" gigs. I've only got so many hours each month that I can invest/spend on my musical endeavors - and I want the most I can get out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 In my experience - the better paid band doesn't work harder than the lessor paid band. What has always jumped out at me is that the better paid bands have always worked smarter. They've developed a truly marketable product (their show), they've had a much more focused marketing plan, they've been effective at creating a band brand. They were good at identifying what needed to be done, when it needed to be done - and most importantly, at actually getting it done !! That's definitely true of the band I was in for 3 years. Musically they don't compete with a lot of the other bands out there. But unlike many of those same bands, they tend to gig when they want, where they want, and for what they want. In fact they've got a Derby Eve gig at a joint that's gonna be packed...so yeah, so true and that's what so many bands don't have. But I'd say in that band's case it's far more sales than marketing, and in fact the leader is a VP of sales in real life: he could sell Jesus a pair of sandals I think. He's that good. So while I hear ya on the marketing, especially for "upper tier" work, better SALES will get most bands a lot farther than they are now. Lead tracking and follow-up is what makes the diff: I saw Tim work both of those aspects a couple of times and he gets it: but his time management skills are unimpeachable too.... I remember him once taking time off from work: minutes, not a day - and meeting a manager at the place of work and sealing the deal. This was before 10 o'clock in the morning. Think how many people don't make the call until after 5PM? Not Tim: he'd work it during the day and when he could most likely secure a comitment. Most of the gigs were booked in the morning, NOT AFTER 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 4, 2012 Members Share Posted May 4, 2012 One other main ingredient that has been overlooked in this thread thusfar is visuals.Sure, musicianship is important, as is onstage energy.HOWEVER, if you weigh 350 lbs and have stringy greasy hair, nobody is gonna care how much "energy" you display onstage. You gotta give the crowd something pleasing to look at!Fer Sher!! [video=youtube;ie4IPkvgtOY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie4IPkvgtOY&feature=fvst [video=youtube;35ib-aFZbuc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35ib-aFZbuc [video=youtube;wnS0jDq8SxQ] [video=youtube;AwNpevm-Zts] [video=youtube;p4vusv0_VVc] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 Fer Sher!! For petes sake! I practically clogged an artery just LOOKING at all those fat {censored}s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 For petes sake! I practically clogged an artery just LOOKING at all those fat {censored}s.we play a few Popa Chubby songs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 we play a few Popa Chubby songs! And Mr. Chubby is great to listen to. But that's a body made for radio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnMCA72 Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 ...To me there is no "this band does 'this' or this band does 'that'.... I agree, but there's no shortage of bands/people who believe that there is some "magic formula". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnMCA72 Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 I would say that MOST bands, and most individuals in bands, wouldn't do it. I know guys, good players, who seem perfectly happy to get together once a week and talk/practice/jam/drink/rehearse with no real desire to gig at all. A lot of people just don't have the fire in the belly needed to really be successful. It's like, there are a lot of people who can run, throw, field, & hit that don't have the mental toughness it takes to play pro baseball, let alone make the major leagues. Everybody's level of commitment, interest, & energy is different & we really shouldn't judge each other based on what we think we might do. Walk a mile in the other guy's shoes, & all that. I know once I said, "Enough is enough", & gave up music for a "sure thing" day job. Being "good" is never good enough, & there are also plenty of people (in music as well as baseball) who aren't necessarily top-shelf talent, but just work their butts off. One of my favorite sayings is that the "best" guitar player of all time probably plays by himself in his basement, & nobody else has or ever will hear him play. Even skill & talent alone can only go so far, but hard work can drive even a mediocre talent into the bigtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnMCA72 Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 ...It wasn't our league. We didn't have the range, the versatility or the talent to try and 'be that band'.... Not to mention, "that band" already exists. There's no need for another one because it's already covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnMCA72 Posted May 5, 2012 Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 ...A good front person is a good front person for one reason... because they draw the audience in. That can be the results of image, appearance and performance. & they make it work with what they have, not trying to be somebody that they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted May 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 5, 2012 ..... One of my favorite sayings is that the "best" guitar player of all time probably plays by himself in his basement, & nobody else has or ever will hear him play...... That's funny, I've always said that myself......(except for maybe Shawn Lane. He might have been the exception to that rule) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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