Ok so what's new? what have you added?

[guitarguy19]

We just did Don't You Want Me Baby by Human League. Mega synth pop with no synths.

I don't know what the {censored} key it's in but we play it in the key of

[jeff42]

We just did Don't You Want Me Baby by Human League. Mega synth pop with no synths. I don't know what the {censored} key it's in but we play it in the key of

 

There & Back Again has been doing about a 2 min. part of that in a medley for a few years now. We heavy up the guitar in it but still have the synth too... it works with our crowd pretty well. (30 somethings)

[Vito Corleone]

.....but there is a whole 'nuther board where can argue this. Girls don't dance to Floyd.

They do when you mash them up with The Bee Gees.

But, nah, I'm not buying that these two songs--which we play on top of one other because they are virtually identical in beat, tempo and chord structure, are in two different keys simply because one goes to a B7 during the last bar of the chorus before returning to the Em and the other does not.

[sbrett]

So what I've learned is that it doesn't matter how well I know theory, if the other guys in the band think they also know it the 'right' way, then we'll spend more time bitching and less time playing.

[TrickyBoy]

I can't believe there's been a 4-page argument regarding a dominant V chord in a minor key:

 

http://www.netplaces.com/music-theory/more-chord-progressions/using-dominant-chords-in-minor-keys.htm

[Old Fart Rocker]

What the hell, I'll jump in and sound like the UN. To me, there's the absolute and the practical ways of looking at this argument. Using Evil Ways as the example, with the addition of the D7 chord on the turnaround, I have no idea what key that TECHNICALLY makes the song. However, from a practical standpoint playing a Gm pentatonic over the progression works just fine. The guitar solo at the end just vamps over the Gm C. I guess technically you could call that the key of F. But, I alternate between the Gm pentatonic/blues scale and Dm scale. The Dm scale gives it a dorian feel which I absolutely love. The beauty of rock/blues/pop music is that the rules don't always matter. Sometimes it's breaking the rules that makes something sound unique. As long as everybody in the band has the same point of reference, calling Evil Ways Gm or F or Dm almost doesn't matter, imho.

 

Now back on topic, my 3 piece rock band just added a bunch of songs. My favs so far are:

 

Don't You Forget About Me

Working For The Weekend

My Sharona

Smells Like Teen Spirit

Two Princes

Rock You Like A Hurricane

Give Me All Your Lovin'

 

Got a great crowd response from these tunes!

[ChiroVette]

What the hell, I'll jump in and sound like the UN. To me, there's the absolute and the practical ways of looking at this argument. Using Evil Ways as the example, with the addition of the D7 chord on the turnaround, I have no idea what key that TECHNICALLY makes the song. However, from a practical standpoint playing a Gm pentatonic over the progression works just fine. The guitar solo at the end just vamps over the Gm C. I guess technically you could call that the key of F. But, I alternate between the Gm pentatonic/blues scale and Dm scale. The Dm scale gives it a dorian feel which I absolutely love. The beauty of rock/blues/pop music is that the rules don't always matter. Sometimes it's breaking the rules that makes something sound unique. As long as everybody in the band has the same point of reference, calling Evil Ways Gm or F or Dm almost doesn't matter, imho.

 

Oh yeah, I totally agree. Sometimes there is no "actual key" unless you want to start assuming some constant modulations in some songs with strange (but oddly effective) chord progressions. I play in a Grateful Dead cover band and the Dead have some incredibly strange and bizarre chord progressions with sometimes constant modulation in certain signature parts, sometimes chromatic movements, for instance using diminished chords to bridge certain quick modulations, and sometimes just adding in chords that, at first glance, seem completely randomly thrown in there.

 

What does the song say? "It's only rock & roll, but I like it..."

 

[Vito Corleone]

So what I've learned is that it doesn't matter how well I know theory, if the other guys in the band think they also know it the 'right' way, then we'll spend more time bitching and less time playing.

Pretty much. Which is why we just learn our parts and play the song. No one ever discusses theory or key signature. I can afford to waste a bit of time arguing that nonsense here with Wades, but there's no time for it in real life....

[Potts]

Wow..I dont think I've ever seen anyone hijack a thread for 4 pages regarding something soooo boring.

[992gnt]

This is fantastic.

 

We just did Don't You Want Me Baby by Human League. Mega synth pop with no synths. I don't know what the {censored} key it's in but we play it in the key of

[stratotastic]

Wow..I dont think I've ever seen anyone hijack a thread for 4 pages regarding something soooo boring.

 

Oh, I have. Happens a lot around here. Usually the same cast of characters, too.

[wades_keys]

So what I've learned is that it doesn't matter how well I know theory, if the other guys in the band think they also know it the 'right' way, then we'll spend more time bitching and less time playing.

 

Nah man. It's just cover tunes. Just play the lines. This is a discussion board, different situation.

[wades_keys]

 

I can't believe there's been a 4-page argument regarding a dominant V chord in a minor key: http://www.netplaces.com/music-theory/more-chord-progressions/using-dominant-chords-in-minor-keys.htm

 

Nah, the argument is more about the function of the supertonic, or the ii chord.

 

Can it exist on it's own, or must it resolve back to the I is pretty much the question.

 

Also "proper" key sig in terms of tone center vs. readability (accidentals).

[Roadappledrumme]

Wow..I dont think I've ever seen anyone hijack a thread for 4 pages regarding something soooo boring.

Which is why I'm glad I'm a drummer lol!

[jeff42]

Which is why I'm glad I'm a drummer lol!

agreed!

[Vito Corleone]

I can't believe there's been a 4-page argument regarding a dominant V chord in a minor key:

 

Why? Did you just join this forum or something?

[jimiv]

 

Nah, the argument is more about the function of the supertonic, or the ii chord. Can it exist on it's own, or must it resolve back to the I is pretty much the question. Also "proper" key sig in terms of tone center vs. readability (accidentals).

 

 

Fantastic,...now we're going to argue about what the argument is.

[Potts]

Why? Did you just join this forum or something?

 

LOL.. well yeah- kinda

[Vito Corleone]

Sorry to have contributed so much to a boring and pendantic argument---especially since none (few) of us around here have much need to delve into music theory anyway---but I just have a hard time believing that so much of the sheet music I've been reading my entire life would have been written in the 'wrong' key. I've seen a LOT of pop-song sheet music over the years. I don't recall EVER seeing a i-IV minor song like "Evil Ways" written so that the key was F major rather than G minor so as to minimize the number of accidentals. And I'm pretty sure I'd remember that because it would have stood out as so odd and so counter to what just feels correct. Have all those transcriptions be 'technically' wrong all these years? Or is it more a matter of "there really are no hard and fast rules to this stuff"?

 

I've always seen Evil Ways written out like this: In Gm with 2 flats and they always naturalize the E for the C-major chord....

 

http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0077611&

[Vito Corleone]

LOL.. well yeah- kinda

 

Well YOU...yeah. But Jason's been hanging around this dump forever. He should know better than anyone how some of us get after we've gotten a few beers into us..... :poke:

 

BTW...welcome to the Forum. Unless you used to be somebody else and then, welcome back and nice guitar!

[Potts]

Thanks for the welcome David! I'm such an internet junkie I can't believe that it took me all these years to know that this forum even existed. Moving forward my life is probably over now.

[Old Fart Rocker]

 

Thanks for the welcome David! I'm such an internet junkie I can't believe that it took me all these years to know that this forum even existed. Moving forward my life is probably over now.

 

 

Welcome, and yeah, it's easy to get hooked on this forum. The good news is that there are a lot of good musicians and bands on here. There's always good info to be had.

[Vito Corleone]

Welcome, and yeah, it's easy to get hooked on this forum. The good news is that there are a lot of good musicians and bands on here. There's always good info to be had.

Yep. Just keep your "scroll" button at the ready....

[ChiroVette]

90% of people in bands are going to hear ANY song that starts on a minor and resolves back to a minor as being in a minor key. They're still wrong.

 

I definitely don't want to wade hip deep into this one, and I didn't listen to the song in question, but very often issues like this come down to the modes of the corresponding major keys. I know plenty of songs, for instance, that are completely diatonic to a particular major key but center around, say the major second. I am quite sure you already know this, so you will probably either shake your head and agree with me or say "No {censored}, Sherlock!" but either response is fine.

 

Anyway, I play in a Grateful Dead cover band and one of their songs, Estimated Prophet, is in 10/10 and with the exception of the chorus and bridge the tonal center is completely wrapped around F#m. In fact, the modal jam at the end of the song is completely based on that, and the way I look at the song while in that "minorish sounding key," for lack of a better term, is that it is in F# Dorian, but could arguably be better described as "E Major played from F# to F#." Now many people who don't know the modes would be tempted to say that it is in the key of F#m, but that is absolutely wrong. And, in fact, I would dare any lead guitarist or soloing keyboard player to try to improvise in F# Natural minor over this tune while the band is vamping on chord forms in the F# Dorian mode.

 

I think that is the mistake many a guitarist especially makes. Because, in the aforementioned example, trying to fit a round peg in a square hole by playing F# Natural minor over that would yield you one bad note in every octave of the scale. Because, obviously the F# Natural minor Scale (or Aolean mode, if you prefer) would actually be in A Major, and therein lies the problem.

 

So from a purely technical standpoint, you are right, because if you analyzed Estimated Prophet, you would correctly label it in one of two ways:

 

"No way, dude! That isn't F# minor, it is E Major played from F# to F#."

 

Or you might say "The tune is in F# Dorian!" But that is, in essence, saying the same thing. I can go on and on about the modes, because my band is absolutely huge on modal jams. But I can tell you this, which assuredly you already know, so let's say this is for anyone who isn't cognizant of this: Many (obviously not all!) issues with keys could be resolved if people would stop assuming that a modal jam or a song in a mode of a particular key is either the "natural minor" or the "natural major" based solely on the fact that the tune is centering around either the major or the minor chord. Sure, they might hit on the correct key by accident IF the song centering around, say Am is actually in C-Major, but that is sheer luck, and only happens because they got lucky since Am is the relative minor of C Major.

 

Anyway,not trying to jump into an argument I am not part of nor want any part of, but I think that this might actually help some people who may be arguing with you for the wrong reasons and not even know it.

[jimiv]

How are you guys doing with Soul Sister? There is movement afoot with my band to add it, but I don't know if the song has already faded.

Also we're talking about Drive By and I know Grant has already mentioned that one is working for him.