making money playing orignal music

[SLScott86]

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

We just had Easton Corbin at a festival here. He's a pretty well known/popular country act with two studio albums, a couple of #1s, etc. I'd say at least 20% of his set consisted of covers. Did he have enough material to do all originals? Probably. Would people rather hear him do a cover that they can sing along with than a few of his B sides that they maybe aren't familiar with? Yup.

I know when you put a bunch of effort into writing music and then performing it that you're trying to deliver this art to your audience. The truth is that in a live situation they can't understand/hear the lyrics 90% of the time anyway, and they probably aren't painstakingly listening to every thing that you do and all the details you've worked so hard at putting into your songs. Unless they've heard your music on the radio/internet/elsewhere prior to a show, it's not a bad idea to throw something out there they CAN recognize.

 

Exactly. Nothing hooks like a cover. You can't bank on much, but one thing we've seen time and again is the person with our album in hand telling us how much he or she loved the cover.

[tim_7string]

 

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

I would argue that cover bands get booked and get paid based on a demonstrated ability to entertain. Sure, a band's set list is part of that equation - but certainly not the crux of it. There are plenty of cover bands out there who are working off set lists that are more or less the same - yet, bands playing the same material are booked with very different frequency and at very different rates of pay.

I agree that playing what the club owner thinks his crowd want to hear helps - but that's stating the obvious. Bands that don't play what the guy representing the crowd thinks will sell don't ever get alot of bookings.

In the end - demonstrated ability to entertain is what gets you booked.

 

Great post. A lot of bands in my own area do play similar songs. I always look at the bands that consistently play at the same places while branching out into newer places all the time and playing *those* places again. If a band is doing that, I think they are successful and they are a good band. If a band is constantly playing one place only or books different places, but only plays there once, then never again, well, I think that says something else entirely.

That line of thinking again can apply to originals bands. If you play the multi-band gigs only once in a while and your crowd never builds, whose fault is that? I think it is the band's fault, not the venue. If you didn't promote yourself enough, you only have yourself to blame if nobody shows up. If you are successful, you'll draw more, you'll (hopefully) get paid more and you'll actually go somewhere if you do all this in the right area. So, even though cover bands are seen as an easier way to go, there are still challenges. In both cases, the band better have something to offer that people want to hear or they won't be playing much anymore.

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

We just had Easton Corbin at a festival here. He's a pretty well known/popular country act with two studio albums, a couple of #1s, etc. I'd say at least 20% of his set consisted of covers. Did he have enough material to do all originals? Probably. Would people rather hear him do a cover that they can sing along with than a few of his B sides that they maybe aren't familiar with? Yup.

I know when you put a bunch of effort into writing music and then performing it that you're trying to deliver this art to your audience. The truth is that in a live situation they can't understand/hear the lyrics 90% of the time anyway, and they probably aren't painstakingly listening to every thing that you do and all the details you've worked so hard at putting into your songs. Unless they've heard your music on the radio/internet/elsewhere prior to a show, it's not a bad idea to throw something out there they CAN recognize.

 

Very true. People like something easily digestable and a recognizable cover is something they can easily digest. There's no shame in throwing a few good covers in with your mostly originals show. I did it myself on a smaller level when I did the open mic thing. I played primarily my own stuff, with one cover thrown in. It hooked the audience in for the other songs I did.

Of course, as Sean said, writing good originals is the thing. That's the difference between someone who can do it for a living and someone who really can't.

[Lee Knight]

Norman's point about the ability to entertain... that's spot on. Local San Diego artist Gregory Page is getting a lot of mileage out of his "old timey" shtick.

Though he sounds like he's playing a bunch of standards, being a successful and talented songwriter, when you here his set... those are his songs. He might throw in a Cole Porter tune, but that's more for the reference than for tapping into a cover's power of being recognize. He could and does, just as easily not. The fact is... Page is entertaining. His look and presentation pull you in. You start listening to his melodies and realize you're being drawn in. Then you hear a lyric and get sucker punched. Like how great music is supposed to work.

You gotta get their attention, then have something worth their while. So great songs are essential. And making them notice? That's just as important.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by sventvkg

Yea you are right. But the ones who go on to be successful at some point have the confidence to start weeding out the covers once they build an audience by introducing their own material. From Zach Brown, to Sister Hazel, DMB to Corey Smith and anyone who's built it up with their live show..This how it's done...IF you have the material. MOST do not.

 

I would think that zack browns big break out was with toes. I didnt follow his career but that seemed to be the song that put him on the map and into the headliner role. To get to the headliner in an arena it takes a hit song and the money that follows. Another big must do is getting air play on clear channel.

Its not confidence s much as its the cash flow and backing it takes to put together a real tour. I play for a songwriter. It has always been my feeling that major original success for him would come in the form of a phone call, that someone big would pick up one of his songs. Everything is a longshot.

Edit ,, looks like chicken fried was his first hit. Toes was the song that caught my attention since gulf and western is more on our radar screen

[New Trail]

 

Originally Posted by MartinC

..... I've gigged with both original and cover outfits. I've made money doing both.....I started a group back in 1992 that still does a gig here and there, and it is an original band. I've made more money in this band than any other.....I think in my area it is easier to make money playing originals than in a lot of areas, and I never considered that in other areas it was so hard. It wasn't until I started reading this forum that I learned that......

 

I think it's fair to say that a lot of us, who live in areas of the country where bands playing originals have little to no venues to play, are quite envious of your situation of being able to play your originals AND make money doing it.

[MartinC]

I think when considering the difference between a cover band's ability to get paid, and an orignal band, there's more to it than being able to entertain. There is the format of the venue. There is also the prevailing pay scale of the venue. Back in the late 70's early 80's, I played covers full time, we'd pull into town and play five sets a night, six nights a week. Then another cover band would come in and do the same while we moved on to the next town to do the same gig. You could have had a great original band, and would have had no chance of getting those gigs. The agent used your picture, and your set list to convince the club he should hire you. Their crowd wanted to hear music they knew, not be entertained by random music. Much has changed, but there are still many many clubs where you have no chance of being booked playing originals no matter how entertaining you might be.

Of course there are original band clubs too-the problem is that most have managed to convince bands that they should be paid based on draw, if at all.

It's pretty clear to me from reading this board over the last five years or so is that most of the working, earning, musicians in much of the country are playing covers. I don't think it's in all cases because that's their choice. I think it's because that's what they have to do to get paid. How many times have we read here that "I'm making "X" tonight, so I'm happy playing covers"

Or "I'm playing to a full house of hot dancing girls, because I don't want to play to three people for $5. gas money." Or, "They wanted to make sure we played these tunes at the wedding"

How about the next time you get booked for a gig, be it a club, a corporate, or a wedding, don't play anything anyone in the crowd knows, just play your own tunes, and see how it works. Absurd? Why? Since you have the ability to entertain, it shouldn't matter. Are they really hiring a band to entertain, or a band to play the music they know and love?

And finally, there has been a ton of threads here about set lists, how effective they are, what set lists will ensure your band gets only lower paying gigs, such as classic rock vs. current material. I would say that a set list of a cover band is in fact in many cases the crux of it's initial marketing. You have two hot chick singers who can dance, horns, and keyboards? Great! What songs do you play? Do you play ____________________?

 

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

I would argue that cover bands get booked and get paid based on a demonstrated ability to entertain. Sure, a band's set list is part of that equation - but certainly not the crux of it. There are plenty of cover bands out there who are working off set lists that are more or less the same - yet, bands playing the same material are booked with very different frequency and at very different rates of pay.

I agree that playing what the club owner thinks his crowd want to hear helps - but that's stating the obvious. Bands that don't play what the guy representing the crowd thinks will sell don't ever get alot of bookings.

In the end - demonstrated ability to entertain is what gets you booked.

 

[RoadRanger]

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

The truth is that in a live situation they can't understand/hear the lyrics 90% of the time anyway

 

Wow, the soundguys out your way must really suck. When I'm doing a singer act the vocal(s) go on top (assuming they don't suck) even if that means nothing else gets into the PA.

[RoadRanger]

 

Originally Posted by sventvkg

Yea you are right. But the ones who go on to be successful at some point have the confidence to start weeding out the covers once they build an audience by introducing their own material. From Zach Brown, to Sister Hazel, DMB to Corey Smith and anyone who's built it up with their live show..This how it's done...IF you have the material. MOST do not.

 

Having listened to your stuff I have to wonder why you're not "there" yet - any guesses?

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

Having listened to your stuff I have to wonder why you're not "there" yet - any guesses?

 

you have to be blessed and have someone give you the break. Tons of guys in nashville that can write great songs. Only a few can get someone in the position to make your career to give you the nod. Lots of careers are like that. aviation was one. You had to find someone to give you that first corp pickup pilot job to build the jet and turbo prop time. Some chief pilot had to deem you worthy of the break.

[MartinC]

I find it strange that this is the case in other areas, but I'm from San Francisco-it's flat out strange here.

 

Originally Posted by New Trail

I think it's fair to say that a lot of us, who live in areas of the country where bands playing originals have little to no venues to play, are quite envious of your situation of being able to play your originals AND make money doing it.

 

[sbrett]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

Wow, the soundguys out your way must really suck. When I'm doing a singer act the vocal(s) go on top (assuming they don't suck) even if that means nothing else gets into the PA.

 

Hell, there's times I listen to a CD and can't understand what is being said the first time through. It doesn't have anything to do with a PA/soundguy (or lack thereof, which is usually the case in most 'original' venues that I've been to around here). It has to do with the fact that people don't know your original music, and they aren't killing themselves trying to decipher it.

With regards to PA/sound engineers--it's been my experience that those items are an afterthought at many venues. Obviously there are exceptions, but most of the venues that I've been to that cater to original music either have no PA or an inadequate PA. If there is a PA, the guy running sound is usually a friend of one of the bands or an employee of the bar that really has no idea how to truly run sound. Conditions are the opposite for the cover guys around here.

[SLScott86]

The most financially successful local original act I've met had a $200 guarantee. For what that's worth. Very, very smart business people and good musicians.

[RoadRanger]

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

Hell, there's times I listen to a CD and can't understand what is being said the first time through. It doesn't have anything to do with a PA/soundguy (or lack thereof, which is usually the case in most 'original' venues that I've been to around here). It has to do with the fact that people don't know your original music, and they aren't killing themselves trying to decipher it.

 

You could get away with that {censored}e back in the "Inagaddadaveda" days but if you want to write hits the vocal had better be understandable and catchy. Listen to Sven's tunes for an example of how it should be done .

[RoadRanger]

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

With regards to PA/sound engineers--it's been my experience that those items are an afterthought at many venues. Obviously there are exceptions, but most of the venues that I've been to that cater to original music either have no PA or an inadequate PA. If there is a PA, the guy running sound is usually a friend of one of the bands or an employee of the bar that really has no idea how to truly run sound. Conditions are the opposite for the cover guys around here.

 

IMNSHO you'd better make sure you have good PA support if you ever want a chance at "making it". Doesn't matter how good the tunes are if you sound like carp .

[sbrett]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

IMNSHO you'd better make sure you have good PA support if you ever want a chance at "making it". Doesn't matter how good the tunes are if you sound like carp .

 

PA support is way way way down at the bottom of things needed to give you a chance at "making it". Good PA support comes with already having 'made it' to a certain extent.

[RoadRanger]

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

PA support is way way way down at the bottom of things needed to give you a chance at "making it". Good PA support comes with already having 'made it' to a certain extent.

 

Chicken or egg? LOL

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by sbrett

PA support is way way way down at the bottom of things needed to give you a chance at "making it". Good PA support comes with already having 'made it' to a certain extent.

 

Originals joints are the same way here. You're fortunate if you get some Yamaha clubs and a decent board. Many times it's a {censored} powered mixer and no name bins that were obsolete 30 years ago.

[RoadRanger]

 

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Originals joints are the same way here. You're fortunate if you get some Yamaha clubs and a decent board. Many times it's a {censored} powered mixer and no name bins that were obsolete 30 years ago.

 

And yous original guys think you are going to "make it" playing through carp like that?

[wades_keys]

well I don't think anyone that plays Molly Malones, Lisa's oak street lounge, the hideaway , the corner door or gerstles are deluded enough to think that this is all they need to do to make it.

Those are a few of the original venues around here and really the only place to refine your act if you're doing that deal. My stint playing originals was pretty brief: I gotta get paid

[BATCAT]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

IMNSHO you'd better make sure you have good PA support if you ever want a chance at "making it". Doesn't matter how good the tunes are if you sound like carp .

 

Good PA support?! If were talking about the typical situation for an original pop/rock band (at least in the cities I've gigged in), by the time a band gets to the point where they're bringing their own PA to a gig they've already made it.

I've done hundreds of gigs in dozens of original bands over the last 15 years and brought the PA to, I believe, two of those.

At everything from bars to larger clubs, bringing your own PA is not even an option. It's simply not done.

[RoadRanger]

^ That's pretty sad .

[SLScott86]

 

Originally Posted by Actionsquid

Good PA support?! If were talking about the typical situation for an original pop/rock band (at least in the cities I've gigged in), by the time a band gets to the point where they're bringing their own PA to a gig they've already made it.

I've done hundreds of gigs in dozens of original bands over the last 15 years and brought the PA to, I believe, two of those.

 

Yeah, we have brought a PA a number of times, but when doing so it's playing cover venues, or private parties. That's also the only time we get paid anything of note.

[BATCAT]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

^ That's pretty sad .

 

Well, it's just the nature of the beast. Some clubs here have pretty great PAs, though. And others have shockingly primitive ones. The mark of a seasoned band is the ability to shine playing through a PA at either extreme. It's a learned skill.

If you have three or four bands, starting at, say, 10pm and needing to be done by 1:30am, it would be physically impossible for each of them to set up and tear down an entire PA before/after playing a 30-60 minute set.

[wades_keys]

I do miss coming up with parts and hearing a sing come together, and it is a goal of mine to play originals again. When the time is right.

[sbrett]

 

Originally Posted by Actionsquid

If you have three or four bands, starting at, say, 10pm and needing to be done by 1:30am, it would be physically impossible for each of them to set up and tear down an entire PA before/after playing a 30-60 minute set.

 

Ya I've never seen that happen. Usually one of four things happens for the original guys (at least around here):

1. The club has its own PA. May be a good one, may be an awful one.

2. One of the original bands has a PA, and everyone uses theirs.

3. There is no PA period.

4. The club and/or bands call us (the cover band) to provide our PA for the show. We run sound and get a guarantee.