making money playing orignal music

[MartinC]

Thought I'd throw up a thread as an offshoot to the current debate. Like most musicians, I've gigged with both original and cover outfits. I've made money doing both, and also made no money doing original material with various groups.

I started a group back in 1992 that still does a gig here and there, and it is an original band. I've made more money in this band than any other, but when I started it, being an original band was not the goal-gigging was. It just happened to turn into an original band. I did make some compromises to the public in terms of the writing and arranging, as well as throwing a cover tune bone out there every so often.

I think in my area it is easier to make money playing originals than in a lot of areas, and I never considered that in other areas it was so hard. It wasn't until I started reading this forum that I learned that.

After 20 years playing in my current group I have formed some opinions about how an original music group or solo act can make decent money. I realize that many of these ideas may be of limited value to others based on style of music and location.

1. Make it about the entertainment value of the players, not about the song. They don't know the songs, so the success or failure is about your ability to entertain the public in spite of the fact they don't know the tunes.

2. Play a style, not a song. Many people can relate to a style without a specific song. Jazz, bluegrass, blues, ethnic stuff, etc.

3. Seek out venues that are not known original music venues. They aren't used to getting bands for free.

4. Find a place with a built in crowd-clubs and restaurants in tourist areas are good for this. Lots of turnover and new folks all the time. They are on vacation and looking for new experiences. Be one, and they will buy your cd to remember the great time they had listening to your band. Get their e-mails, and establish fans throughout the world, one at a time. You never know when that one person could create a huge opportunity. They will buy tunes you release in the future on the net.

5. Don't fall into the trap that you have to bring people to get paid. To be good, you have to gig a lot. You won't be able to convince your girlfriend, your family, your buddies, to come out every week. See #4

6. Stay small. Fewer people in the band, less drama, less money needed to make it work. But be able to add more players when the situation calls for it.

7. Get out there. Gig every week. Gigs create gigs. Play solo, as a duo, whatever it takes to stay active. Have a different set list, or a different style, for different configs.

8. Don't kill the thing with rehearsals. Gig instead. Get good players that don't need a bunch of rehearsal. See #1
Nothing kills a band like a garage.

9. After you've been out in the market place doing well, contact every agent you can. They have the corporates, the better weddings, the highest paying privates.

10. Press-make sure your listed in the entertainment sections of local papers and on the papers web listings.

11. Network-go see other similiar bands-see what works and what doesn't, which clubs/bands are drawing, and why.

12. Hustle-see #4-be on the lookout for opportunity. If a day goes by when you didn't do anything to advance your career, ask yourself why you should be successful when there are others out there out working you.

13. Be something different and or the best at what you do. Otherwise, why should people be entertained?


I'd like to hear other ideas as well.

[MartinC]

14. Learn to spell original

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by MartinC

Thought I'd throw up a thread as an offshoot to the current debate. Like most musicians, I've gigged with both original and cover outfits. I've made money doing both, and also made no money doing original material with various groups.

I started a group back in 1992 that still does a gig here and there, and it is an original band. I've made more money in this band than any other, but when I started it, being an original band was not the goal-gigging was. It just happened to turn into an original band. I did make some compromises to the public in terms of the writing and arranging, as well as throwing a cover tune bone out there every so often.

I think in my area it is easier to make money playing originals than in a lot of areas, and I never considered that in other areas it was so hard. It wasn't until I started reading this forum that I learned that.

After 20 years playing in my current group I have formed some opinions about how an original music group or solo act can make decent money. I realize that many of these ideas may be of limited value to others based on style of music and location.

1. Make it about the entertainment value of the players, not about the song. They don't know the songs, so the success or failure is about your ability to entertain the public in spite of the fact they don't know the tunes.

2. Play a style, not a song. Many people can relate to a style without a specific song. Jazz, bluegrass, blues, ethnic stuff, etc.

3. Seek out venues that are not known original music venues. They aren't used to getting bands for free.

4. Find a place with a built in crowd-clubs and restarants in tourist areas are good for this. Lots of turnover and new folks all the time. They are on vacation and looking for new experiences. Be one, and they will buy your cd to remember the great time they had listening to your band. Get their e-mails, and establish fans throughout the world, one at a time. You never know when that one person could create a huge opportunity. They will buy tunes you release in the future on the net.

5. Don't fall into the trap that you have to bring people to get paid. To be good, you have to gig a lot. You won't be able to convince your girlfriend, your family, your buddies, to come out every week. See #4

6. Stay small. Fewer people in the band, less drama, less money needed to make it work. But be able to add more players when the situation calls for it.

7. Get out there. Gig every week. Gigs create gigs. Play solo, as a duo, whatever it takes to stay active. Have a different set list, or a different style, for different configs.

8. Don't kill the thing with rehearsals. Gig instead. Get good players that don't need a bunch of rehearsal. See #1
Nothing kills a band like a garage.

9. after you've been out in the market place doing well, contact every agent you can. they have the corporates, the better weddings, the highest paying privates.

10. Press-make sure your listed in the entertainment sections of local papers and on the papaers web listings.

11. Network-go see other similiar bands-see what works and what doesn't, which clubs/bands are drawing, and why.

12. Hustle-see #4-be on the lookout for opportunity. If a day goes by when you didn't do anything to advance your career, ask yourself why you should be successful when there are others out there out working you.

13. Be something different and or the best at what you do. Otherwise, why should people be entertained?


I'd like to hear other ideas as well.

You pretty well hit the nail on the head when it comes to the model we use. We mix originals with covers because the original stuff tends to fit with the style of covers we do. Its about entertainment and playing a {censored} load of shows. We are based in a resort town and let the people come to us. Its really not any different than the top acts in our area that are exclusive cover bands. They all run this model. the guy I play for pushes it further because he started his own club. No pressure to book ,, since its a house band deal. You bring in the guys you want on his days off.

[RoadRanger]

There was a time when you could gig originals for money just about anywhere if you could entertain. These guys were great:
http://www.studiowner.com/essays/ess...s=0&pagnum=133

[FitchFY]

Great list, Martin. A few thoughts from my experience:

1.) Be true to yourself. You can tell when a band is faking it and not being sincere - don't try to be something you aren't. Your Affliction t-shirt doesn't make you rock and roll - YOU make you rock and roll. (Or skinny tie and suit coat make you jazz... whatever.)

2.) Know and respect your fans. People love "being friends with the band," so make your fans your friends and feel valued. If you play and leave, your band doesn't deserve the gig.

3.) Have passion for what you play. See # 1 - It's okay to chase your dream, and this is your avenue for it -- own the music.

4.) Be realistic. Like in any band, there are many others doing what you already do. If you expect people to fawn for you, just stop now. You need to EARN whatever your goal is -- know that you'll have good nights and bad nights, good band members and bad, and know you'll eat a lot of PB&J sandwiches.

5.) Listen, listen, look and learn. EVERY band that plays can teach you something. Heck, every musician can --- whether something you want to do or not do, you can always learn. Watch all the bands on your bill!

6. Be a good communicator. Writing music with others can be really stressful if someone thinks it's their song or their band. Being in an original band is only 30% music - when writing, you really need to let things roll off your back, be patient, and try all ideas.

[SpaceNorman]

Once again, maybe it's just my "covers" orientation ... but I'm curious why you post this as "originals" advice and not simply advice for any genre? There's not a single point you made that can't be applied to the "covers" world as well.

Maybe there's some there's an innate trait in "originals" guys that prevents them from realizing just how similiar they are to the "covers" guys?

[JailTime]

These are great thoughts, guys. Thanks for the insights - I agree with most of the preceding.

[MartinC]

Great ideas-really true about loving the music-otherwise what's the point.

Originally Posted by FitchFY

Great list, Martin. A few thoughts from my experience:

1.) Be true to yourself. You can tell when a band is faking it and not being sincere - don't try to be something you aren't. Your Affliction t-shirt doesn't make you rock and roll - YOU make you rock and roll. (Or skinny tie and suit coat make you jazz... whatever.)

2.) Know and respect your fans. People love "being friends with the band," so make your fans your friends and feel valued. If you play and leave, your band doesn't deserve the gig.

3.) Have passion for what you play. See # 1 - It's okay to chase your dream, and this is your avenue for it -- own the music.

4.) Be realistic. Like in any band, there are many others doing what you already do. If you expect people to fawn for you, just stop now. You need to EARN whatever your goal is -- know that you'll have good nights and bad nights, good band members and bad, and know you'll eat a lot of PB&J sandwiches.

5.) Listen, listen, look and learn. EVERY band that plays can teach you something. Heck, every musician can --- whether something you want to do or not do, you can always learn. Watch all the bands on your bill!

6. Be a good communicator. Writing music with others can be really stressful if someone thinks it's their song or their band. Being in an original band is only 30% music - when writing, you really need to let things roll off your back, be patient, and try all ideas.

[wesg]

Don't be stupid and try to learn a bunch of covers at the last minute in order to obey #3 while keeping the bar owner happy. That killed one incarnation of an originals group I was in about 20 years ago. And, GOD, was it ever embarrassing. No, scratch that, it was humiliating. GAH. I *still* feel like hiding under a table.

[FitchFY]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Maybe there's some there's an innate trait in "originals" guys that prevents them from realizing just how similiar they are to the "covers" guys?

Ya know, I was typing that list and realizing "there may be a bit of a Zen thing with some of this."

Example: #2. Know and respect your fans.

This is true for ANY band. You're new, you've got zero fans, and you need everyone there to follow you after this gig... but why? For my cover band, we needed friends to support our band so we'd get booked and make more money.

For my original band, we needed friends and fans to support our music and help our name get out there. This never had a financial factor - it was for support of our art. We wanted everyone to hear the special music we were making.

Is that pretentious and histrionic? Perhaps -- but it's what it was. There's such a sense of ownership on original music for me - if someone doesn't like my Faith No More cover, it's because they don't like the Faith No More song. But if they don't like my original song, it's because they don't like my music. So earning those friends and fans, to me, has a different meaning and a different zen.

It's important in either style of band, but I guess there's just variables to both.

[MartinC]

Cover bands don't seem to have the same trouble getting paid as orignal music groups, hence, the post. Cover bands often get booked in part based on a set list, or an era they concentrate on (80's, modern rock, etc) If your a decent cover band playing what the club owner thinks his crowd wants to hear, your probably going to do ok.

Many original bands don't get paid anything. That was the idea behind the post-it doesn't have to be that way.

The only innate trait I have as far as gigging is to play music I love, and make as much money as possible doing it. It just happened that for me it was with original music.

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Once again, maybe it's just my "covers" orientation ... but I'm curious why you post this as "originals" advice and not simply advice for any genre? There's not a single point you made that can't be applied to the "covers" world as well.

Maybe there's some there's an innate trait in "originals" guys that prevents them from realizing just how similiar they are to the "covers" guys?

[FitchFY]

Originally Posted by MartinC

8. Don't kill the thing with rehearsals. Gig instead. Get good players that don't need a bunch of rehearsal. See #1
Nothing kills a band like a garage.

I just put "Nothing kills a band like a garage" on my Facebook status. GREAT quote, and so true. I know three bands off the top of my head who are AWESOME and no one knows of them because they only play out once every few months.

It's a different business model, though - they're trying to grow themselves online by having a huge media presence of photo shoots, new tunes, etc. And that's really cool, and I support it.

But what's interesting (and makes sense to me) is they're burning out due to their lack of shows and lack of fan response in person. I talked to the drummer the other day and he said "my shells have dust on them. This sucks."

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by FitchFY

I just put "Nothing kills a band like a garage" on my Facebook status. GREAT quote, and so true. I know three bands off the top of my head who are AWESOME and no one knows of them because they only play out once every few months.

It's a different business model, though - they're trying to grow themselves online by having a huge media presence of photo shoots, new tunes, etc. And that's really cool, and I support it.

Part of what sucks about doing original stuff for me is that there is commonly an expectation (sometimes written) that you will put two weeks or so between shows in a given market. That means- unless you are hitting the road a lot- you can really only gig once or twice a month.

[MartinC]

That is something that exists in clubs catering to the original scene. It's essentially being sentenced to driving a ton, or never reaching your potential as a band.

Originally Posted by Actionsquid

Part of what sucks about doing original stuff for me is that there is commonly an expectation (sometimes written) that you will put two weeks or so between shows in a given market. That means- unless you are hitting the road a lot- you can really only gig once or twice a month.

[RoadRanger]

^ hence the stereotypical van full of guys "on tour" sleeping in it and eating PB&J sandwiches.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by FitchFY

Ya know, I was typing that list and realizing "there may be a bit of a Zen thing with some of this."

Example: #2. Know and respect your fans.

This is true for ANY band. You're new, you've got zero fans, and you need everyone there to follow you after this gig... but why? For my cover band, we needed friends to support our band so we'd get booked and make more money.

For my original band, we needed friends and fans to support our music and help our name get out there. This never had a financial factor - it was for support of our art. We wanted everyone to hear the special music we were making.

Is that pretentious and histrionic? Perhaps -- but it's what it was. There's such a sense of ownership on original music for me - if someone doesn't like my Faith No More cover, it's because they don't like the Faith No More song. But if they don't like my original song, it's because they don't like my music. So earning those friends and fans, to me, has a different meaning and a different zen.

It's important in either style of band, but I guess there's just variables to both.

we shotgun it with both original songs and covers. The difference is we do a lot of texas songwriter covers. If you do a show where you are playing the best of texas songwriters and can lay your stuff right in there with it and it hangs it ups your status in the listeners mind. Then they buy the CD and become a fan. We have a home base veune that the band leader is playing in one form or another ,, be it solo, duo or trio, You can play the same room 5 and 6 days a week on just your 5 cds. You have to do covers or the whole stay in one place and let the people rotate through a tourist town doesnt work. we have tons of repeat out of town fans. we also pick up pvt shows off of this fan base. You gotta be an all of the above kind of band to pull that off well. It may be a unique situation , but its how we do it.

[BATCAT]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

^ hence the stereotypical van full of guys "on tour" sleeping in it and eating PB&J sandwiches.

 

That's not really why bands tour, but it's true that's sometimes the only way for an original band to get a lot of stage time, and stage time is key in really polishing a set. Unfortunately not only is booking a tour a big headache (if you're DIY) it's harder and harder to make money (read: not lose a lot) on tour. Not to mention if you want a decent job it can be hard to find one that allows you the flexibility. I've only managed small tours with any band in and never did one that didn't hemorrhage money.

[davebols]

If you know any cover bands, see if you could play a short set before them. Most the cover bands here don't mind, and a lot of times they will pay for you to play a full set. I think it was said before, get out and meet other players. try to create oportunity to play in front of people. Benifits are good too.

[JailTime]

Originally Posted by MartinC

3. Seek out venues that are not known original music venues. They aren't used to getting bands for free.

4. Find a place with a built in crowd-clubs and restaurants in tourist areas are good for this. Lots of turnover and new folks all the time.

Want to just take a second to throw up a caution on #3 and 'hell yeah' on #4

For #3, if you play original music in a venue that expects covers, it can be awfully frustrating. And - I don't think it's good practice to play for free even if you are an original outfit. Maybe you won't command the big $'s, but I always try to adhere to the unwritten rule that performers should be compensated. You're doing the next act a favor, and you're telling the venue that you're a serious artist.

For #4 - there are original venues in most towns, I'm sure - and if not original, then venues/clubs that routinely mix in originals into the lineups. And I'm not talking about getting on the bill with 8 other bands for 45 minutes. You have to seek them out, but they are out there.

#7 - play a lot - agreed. even if it's solo, duo, play as much as your schedule can handle. I wish I played more.

[tim_7string]

Originally Posted by MartinC

Thought I'd throw up a thread as an offshoot to the current debate. Like most musicians, I've gigged with both original and cover outfits. I've made money doing both, and also made no money doing original material with various groups.

I started a group back in 1992 that still does a gig here and there, and it is an original band. I've made more money in this band than any other, but when I started it, being an original band was not the goal-gigging was. It just happened to turn into an original band. I did make some compromises to the public in terms of the writing and arranging, as well as throwing a cover tune bone out there every so often.

I think in my area it is easier to make money playing originals than in a lot of areas, and I never considered that in other areas it was so hard. It wasn't until I started reading this forum that I learned that.

After 20 years playing in my current group I have formed some opinions about how an original music group or solo act can make decent money. I realize that many of these ideas may be of limited value to others based on style of music and location.

1. Make it about the entertainment value of the players, not about the song. They don't know the songs, so the success or failure is about your ability to entertain the public in spite of the fact they don't know the tunes.

2. Play a style, not a song. Many people can relate to a style without a specific song. Jazz, bluegrass, blues, ethnic stuff, etc.

3. Seek out venues that are not known original music venues. They aren't used to getting bands for free.

4. Find a place with a built in crowd-clubs and restaurants in tourist areas are good for this. Lots of turnover and new folks all the time. They are on vacation and looking for new experiences. Be one, and they will buy your cd to remember the great time they had listening to your band. Get their e-mails, and establish fans throughout the world, one at a time. You never know when that one person could create a huge opportunity. They will buy tunes you release in the future on the net.

5. Don't fall into the trap that you have to bring people to get paid. To be good, you have to gig a lot. You won't be able to convince your girlfriend, your family, your buddies, to come out every week. See #4

6. Stay small. Fewer people in the band, less drama, less money needed to make it work. But be able to add more players when the situation calls for it.

7. Get out there. Gig every week. Gigs create gigs. Play solo, as a duo, whatever it takes to stay active. Have a different set list, or a different style, for different configs.

8. Don't kill the thing with rehearsals. Gig instead. Get good players that don't need a bunch of rehearsal. See #1
Nothing kills a band like a garage.

9. After you've been out in the market place doing well, contact every agent you can. They have the corporates, the better weddings, the highest paying privates.

10. Press-make sure your listed in the entertainment sections of local papers and on the papers web listings.

11. Network-go see other similiar bands-see what works and what doesn't, which clubs/bands are drawing, and why.

12. Hustle-see #4-be on the lookout for opportunity. If a day goes by when you didn't do anything to advance your career, ask yourself why you should be successful when there are others out there out working you.

13. Be something different and or the best at what you do. Otherwise, why should people be entertained?


I'd like to hear other ideas as well.

This is a great list, MartinC. Thank you for posting it!

I'm with FitchFY on #8: "Nothing kills a band like a garage." This can apply to cover bands as well. The guys in my cover band are good enough that we don't need to practice. Individual practice is fine. All my cousin and I have to do is make sure that when we say we are playing it in G, we mean G on the fretboard or G in sound (we play in flat tuning), so that we don't play in the wrong key for the songs. Other than that, when we play, it sounds like we already practiced. We did practice a bit before a street dance gig that was coming up, but that was just to add a whole bunch of tunes at once. I believe practice is a good idea in the beginning stages, but after that, just gig, man. The songs come together so much better *and* you're getting paid!

I also strongly agree with #2 (Play a style). As a cover band, a band is called upon to be many things to many people, sometimes failing miserably. As an originals band, if you do that, people will probably be confused about you. I believe an originals group should have a strong identity, their own flavor, their own sound that no one else can make and it's something that puts them in high demand. That is the key right there. Create something people want. Boom!

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by MartinC

Cover bands don't seem to have the same trouble getting paid as orignal music groups, hence, the post. Cover bands often get booked in part based on a set list, or an era they concentrate on (80's, modern rock, etc) If your a decent cover band playing what the club owner thinks his crowd wants to hear, your probably going to do ok.

I would argue that cover bands get booked and get paid based on a demonstrated ability to entertain. Sure, a band's set list is part of that equation - but certainly not the crux of it. There are plenty of cover bands out there who are working off set lists that are more or less the same - yet, bands playing the same material are booked with very different frequency and at very different rates of pay.

I agree that playing what the club owner thinks his crowd want to hear helps - but that's stating the obvious. Bands that don't play what the guy representing the crowd thinks will sell don't ever get alot of bookings.

In the end - demonstrated ability to entertain is what gets you booked.

[sventvkg]

Write good originals. You can then play them at any gig. Last 5 years I was gigging full time for a living I played mostly originals and only covers that I liked with no regard for anything popular. Worked for me and I sold a lot of records.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by sventvkg

Write good originals. You can then play them at any gig. Last 5 years I was gigging full time for a living I played mostly originals and only covers that I liked with no regard for anything popular. Worked for me and I sold a lot of records.

 

Most people I know who are songwriters and also do 3 hour shows end up doing some covers. You do stuff off the most recient cd you are selling and some stuff off the one before that ,, and fill in the rest with solid covers in the genre. If the people have a good time, some end up buying both CDs. You cant ever stop being entertainers no matter if you are doing your own stuff or just covers.

[sventvkg]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Most people I know who are songwriters and also do 3 hour shows end up doing some covers. You do stuff off the most recient cd you are selling and some stuff off the one before that ,, and fill in the rest with solid covers in the genre. If the people have a good time, some end up buying both CDs. You cant ever stop being entertainers no matter if you are doing your own stuff or just covers.

 

Yea you are right. But the ones who go on to be successful at some point have the confidence to start weeding out the covers once they build an audience by introducing their own material. From Zach Brown, to Sister Hazel, DMB to Corey Smith and anyone who's built it up with their live show..This how it's done...IF you have the material. MOST do not.

[sbrett]

Originally Posted by sventvkg

Yea you are right. But the ones who go on to be successful at some point have the confidence to start weeding out the covers once they build an audience by introducing their own material. From Zach Brown, to Sister Hazel, DMB to Corey Smith and anyone who's built it up with their live show..This how it's done...IF you have the material. MOST do not.

We just had Easton Corbin at a festival here. He's a pretty well known/popular country act with two studio albums, a couple of #1s, etc. I'd say at least 20% of his set consisted of covers. Did he have enough material to do all originals? Probably. Would people rather hear him do a cover that they can sing along with than a few of his B sides that they maybe aren't familiar with? Yup.

I know when you put a bunch of effort into writing music and then performing it that you're trying to deliver this art to your audience. The truth is that in a live situation they can't understand/hear the lyrics 90% of the time anyway, and they probably aren't painstakingly listening to every thing that you do and all the details you've worked so hard at putting into your songs. Unless they've heard your music on the radio/internet/elsewhere prior to a show, it's not a bad idea to throw something out there they CAN recognize.