"Aging Out" Fans...

[turnip]

 

Originally Posted by kmart

http://neo-chicago.com/

You're welcome.

 

We're planning a trip out there soon. I'm not from this area, so I've never been; my girlfriend used to go there back in her teens.

The only issue is that from what I've read on line is that these days Neo suffers from the same "Metropolis Records-infection" that every other industrial club we've been to (even the "famous" City Club in Detroit) does. I'm not driving 3 hours to listen to Combichrist and Faderhead.

The music is different now. It's much more trance-influenced, and isn't as hard, edgy, organic, or raw sounding. I'm not going to go into whether or not it sounds "better" or "worse" (that's an old fogey trap ) but it certainly is different, and not what the girl and I love. It is much safer sounding, and the clubs are safer, and everything is less exciting.

[kmart]

Well you can't just go on any old night, that's for sure. But keep an eye on their calendar, maybe FB page. The have regular nights dedicated to exactly the goth-industrial you like from the era you love, and that's what you'll hear all night.

Plenty of people who were involved in that scene here are still around, and they gather in the same few places.

I think for what you're after, you're not going to find it in smaller locales...you just have to look to larger cities where enough of those (us) old fogeys are still around.

[turnip]

 

Originally Posted by kmart

Well you can't just go on any old night, that's for sure. But keep an eye on their calendar, maybe FB page. The have regular nights dedicated to exactly the goth-industrial you like from the era you love, and that's what you'll hear all night.

Plenty of people who were involved in that scene here are still around, and they gather in the same few places.

I think for what you're after, you're not going to find it in smaller locales...you just have to look to larger cities where enough of those (us) old fogeys are still around.

 

Will do, then.

I take it you're in that area?

The last two times we went to Chicago we planned on hitting Neo. The first time we were just completely wiped out (had been a long day) and the second time was with my younger brother and his wife, visiting up from Texas. They are both more than a little... stiff and stodgy... it would have been interesting to say the least. Needless to say, we ended up deciding against taking them to Neo.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by turnip

The last two times we went to Chicago we planned on hitting Neo. The first time we were just completely wiped out (had been a long day) and the second time was with my younger brother and his wife, visiting up from Texas. They are both more than a little... stiff and stodgy... it would have been interesting to say the least. Needless to say, we ended up deciding against taking them to Neo.

 

Yeah, that pretty much defines "aging out" and why scenes for older types of music are virtually non-existant. When we're younger, there's ALWAYS enough energy left to go out clubbing. My wife and I often talk about going out and doing stuff, only to decide around about 8:30 or so that just staying home and watching TV sounds so much better.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Yeah, that pretty much defines "aging out" and why scenes for older types of music are virtually non-existant. When we're younger, there's ALWAYS enough energy left to go out clubbing. My wife and I often talk about going out and doing stuff, only to decide around about 8:30 or so that just staying home and watching TV sounds so much better.

 

we go out quite a bit. We do have the deck stacked in our favor though. Kids out of the house. good location with live entertainment in abundance and no cover charges. Retired with no alarm clock to worry about. Two mile drive to the entertainment district. I think most of you will find that if you will start doing more when you are free of the drudgery of jobs, kids, bills, etc. if your health is good and you dont have substance abuse habits that keep you at home paranoid about getting busted by the police.

[turnip]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Yeah, that pretty much defines "aging out" and why scenes for older types of music are virtually non-existant. When we're younger, there's ALWAYS enough energy left to go out clubbing. My wife and I often talk about going out and doing stuff, only to decide around about 8:30 or so that just staying home and watching TV sounds so much better.

 

Yup. We joke about it all the time, but in reality, unless we designate an evening and the next day as a "going out" night, we have a "bedtime" of 10:30p. By the time 8p or so rolls around, we're in pj's snuggled up on the couch with the cats/dogs, some chamomile tea, and DVD episodes of the X-Files. We've gotten old.

I know that all our peers are the same way, too. It is just frustrating when we do get out, and there doesn't seem to be a place for us. It's all part of getting old, I know; it's just that you never think it'll happen to you.

Also, and this is totally not-quite-so-related, but it seems that the younger generation just isn't... angry or frustrated like we (or our older siblings/parents/etc.) were. I remember feeling a huge sense of frustration, disenfranchisement, anger, et cetera as a teen/early 20-something man. I saw it (second-hand) in the early generations, too: the punk/industrial revolution of the late 70's, the New/No Wave and Noise Rock/Pig{censored} generation of the 80's and early 90's... these were dangerous, aggressive, confrontational music scenes.

I remember going to local shows with crust/grind/metal bands and it being scary. Crazy {censored} went on at those gigs. The kids were lashing out at a world that didn't seem to want/care/know about them, and it came through in the music. I just don't see/feel that in much "new" music... it is almost like a swing back toward the "manufactured" and over-blown music of the mid-70's and 80's hair scenes is back. A lot of filler and show, no substance and meat.

It seems from talking to younger people that there is a sense of entitlement and complacency that my peers just didn't feel. As a first-time college professor this past semester, I saw some of this first-hand: a lot of the kids simply expect good grades, without doing anything to get them, and then are seriously confused when they don't have everything handed to them on a silver platter. But they don't get angry... they are just confused.

It's like that scene from "Zoolander":

J.P. Prewitt: "Male models don't think for themselves."

Derek Zoolander: "That's not true!"

J.P. Prewitt: "Yes it is, Derek."

Derek Zoolander: [meekly] "Okay."

That's how I feel kids are these days, and that's how the music sounds. Combichrist doesn't sound dangerous. It sounds like Paul Oakenfold with the vox and 909/808 run through a virtual fuzz box (not even a real fuzz box).

/rant

I'll just go and yell at kids on my lawn now.

[turnip]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

we go out quite a bit. We do have the deck stacked in our favor though. Kids out of the house. good location with live entertainment in abundance and no cover charges. Retired with no alarm clock to worry about. Two mile drive to the entertainment district.

 

That's a pretty good score you've got running there.

[TIMKEYS]

That's a pretty good score you've got running there. [/QUOT

A Little luck and a lot of planning and good choices i guess.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

we go out quite a bit. We do have the deck stacked in our favor though. Kids out of the house. good location with live entertainment in abundance and no cover charges. Retired with no alarm clock to worry about. Two mile drive to the entertainment district. I think most of you will find that if you will start doing more when you are free of the drudgery of jobs, kids, bills, etc. if your health is good and you dont have substance abuse habits that keep you at home paranoid about getting busted by the police.

 

Yeah, I don't know if we'll get to that point anytime soon. Kid isn't even 5 yet and I'm in the process of buying a new house. We're gonna be tied down for quite a few more years, I'm afraid

But that's a choice I made early on in life. I specifically chose to do the rock band thing, not get married, not have kids, not settle down until I nearly 40 because I wanted to get all that stuff out of system when I was younger as much as possible. I knew I'd basically be trading those 20 years for another 20 years down the road, but I'm cool with that. I see some of my friends whose kids are now out of the house and think that looks nice, but then I think back on them being tied down to the job and the house when they were 25 while I was out having the time of my life and I know they missed out on much more than I will in the future.

50 is the new 40, right? As long as the health holds out, I can still do the retirement cruises and early bird specials when I'm in my 70s.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by turnip

Also, and this is totally not-quite-so-related, but it seems that the younger generation just isn't... angry or frustrated like we (or our older siblings/parents/etc.) were.

 

I think that's right. These things go in cycle. I came of age in the late 70s/early 80s and there wasn't a lot of "youth anger" then. Even the underground punk scene seemed more like they were just going to motions rather than being TRUELY angry about anything. I think that was largely the result of kids who grew up viewing the older 60s hippie generation and thinking it was all a lot of bull{censored}. Generations tend to pendulum back and forth. Actually there's an interesting theory about it all being a 4-generational cycle that can be traced back hundreds of years, but that's a topic for another forum. But I definately think there's a lot of truth to people being a product of their environment and depending on how your parents act and raise you has a lot to do both with how you will emulate them and how you will rebel against them.

So yeah, this generation is a bit more relaxed than some in the past. I see some of the 'entitled' kids you talk about, but I see some really, really good ones too. But my guess is that when the 'entitled' generation starts raising their own kids, they'll see the mistakes their parents made and raise their own differently.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Yeah, I don't know if we'll get to that point anytime soon. Kid isn't even 5 yet and I'm in the process of buying a new house. We're gonna be tied down for quite a few more years, I'm afraid

But that's a choice I made early on in life. I specifically chose to do the rock band thing, not get married, not have kids, not settle down until I nearly 40 because I wanted to get all that stuff out of system when I was younger as much as possible. I knew I'd basically be trading those 20 years for another 20 years down the road, but I'm cool with that. I see some of my friends whose kids are now out of the house and think that looks nice, but then I think back on them being tied down to the job and the house when they were 25 while I was out having the time of my life and I know they missed out on much more than I will in the future.

50 is the new 40, right? As long as the health holds out, I can still do the retirement cruises and early bird specials when I'm in my 70s.

 

The problem you have is the inflation that we will see in the future. Things will cost more and the rate of rising prices may not keep up with wages, expecially when your biz depends on people re financing things and home sales. Most guys your age are pretty well on their way to having a retirment funded and a home paid off and the kids through college. Good luck you are gonna need it.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

The problem you have is the inflation that we will see in the future. Things will cost more and the rate of rising prices may not keep up with wages, expecially when your biz depends on people re financing things and home sales. Most guys your age are pretty well on their way to having a retirment funded and a home paid off and the kids through college. Good luck you are gonna need it.

 

Well, we all need a bit of good luck, but personally, I'm relying a bit more on being smart and careful. But what makes you think you know anything about my financial situation compared to "most guys my age"? I have all sorts of friends and relatives who got wiped out during the financial crisis. We stayed low and kept our head above water. Didn't play the "cash out" game and buy too much house in the 00s like everyone else did.

I've got one house paid for that I rent out, and now that the market is turning around and values are on the upswing, it's a good time to buy. We're outgrowing the present house a bit and want to be closer to the school we'd like to send the kid to, so we're buying a new home and I'll convert the present one to another rental and will have that one paid off in a few years. Plus I've already pre-paid for 4 years college tuition for the kid and we've got a decent sum set aside in investments for retirement. Plus the 3 houses should provide a nice bit of equity down the road when they are all paid off.

Will things keep up with inflation? Who knows. But it isn't like anyone just invented inflation. People survived the ridiculous inflation of the 70s and 80s and most managed to retire ok. I'll think we'll be fine. Slow and steady wins the race. But all anyone can do is just play the game as best we can and hope for the best.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Well, we all need a bit of good luck, but personally, I'm relying a bit more on being smart and careful. But what makes you think you know anything about my financial situation compared to "most guys my age"? I have all sorts of friends and relatives who got wiped out during the financial crisis. We stayed low and kept our head above water. Didn't play the "cash out" game and buy too much house in the 00s like everyone else did.

I've got one house paid for that I rent out, and now that the market is turning around and values are on the upswing, it's a good time to buy. We're outgrowing the present house a bit and want to be closer to the school we'd like to send the kid to, so we're buying a new home and I'll convert the present one to another rental and will have that one paid off in a few years. Plus I've already pre-paid for 4 years college tuition for the kid and we've got a decent sum set aside in investments for retirement. Plus the 3 houses should provide a nice bit of equity down the road when they are all paid off.

Will things keep up with inflation? Who knows. But it isn't like anyone just invented inflation. People survived the ridiculous inflation of the 70s and 80s and most managed to retire ok. I'll think we'll be fine. Slow and steady wins the race. But all anyone can do is just play the game as best we can and hope for the best.

 

True ,, thank god I navigated the carter years in my twenties.... 300 dollar cars, 100 dollar rent and no debt. Down here now people cant rent their property for enough money to even make expenses even when the places are paid for. Taxes and insurance just keep going up. We are in a very tough time. Interest rates are being held down by artifical means and risk and prices just keep going up unless you are stupid enough to buy into the fact that there is no inflation and wont be any.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

True ,, thank god I navigated the carter years in my twenties.... 300 dollar cars, 100 dollar rent and no debt. Down here now people cant rent their property for enough money to even make expenses even when the places are paid for. Taxes and insurance just keep going up. We are in a very tough time. Interest rates are being held down by artifical means and risk and prices just keep going up unless you are stupid enough to buy into the fact that there is no inflation and wont be any.

 

I don't think anybody can predict the future regarding inflation or to what degree wages or real estate will or won't be able to keep up with it. But what IS true is that money has never been cheaper. And real estate isn't going to get any cheaper. And while I know places like Texas didn't see the boom and bust that some other places did, the fact is I can show you houses around Nevada that were going for $300,000 at the peak of the market that you could have snatched up for $50K a few months ago. Which is what a lot of people have been doing and the market is headed back up. Stuff isn't likely to go back up to 2008 levels anytime soon, but I fully expect it to hit its "real" value of somewhere between the two extremes in the not-too-distant future. And borrowing as much money as you can now at ridiculously low rates and paying it back later with inflated dollars? You'd have to be a fool to not do that if you can.

Most of us over a certain age can remember stories about how Grandma and Grandpa bought their house after the Depression and thirty years later were still making payments of $38 a month or whatever. We're going through that sort of cycle again. Those $1200 a month mortgage payments a lot of people are making may seem like a joke 30 years from now. Inflation is just some zeros on the end of a figure to a certain degree. The key is making it work in your favor, not the other way around.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

I don't think anybody can predict the future regarding inflation or to what degree wages or real estate will or won't be able to keep up with it. But what IS true is that money has never been cheaper. And real estate isn't going to get any cheaper. And while I know places like Texas didn't see the boom and bust that some other places did, the fact is I can show you houses around Nevada that were going for $300,000 at the peak of the market that you could have snatched up for $50K a few months ago. Which is what a lot of people have been doing and the market is headed back up. Stuff is likely to go back up to 2008 levels anytime soon, but I fully expect it to hit its "real" value of somewhere between the two extremes in the not-too-distant future. And borrowing as much money as you can now at ridiculously low rates and paying it back later with inflated dollars? You'd have to be a fool to not do that if you can.

Most of us over a certain age can remember stories about how Grandma and Grandpa bought their house after the Depression and thirty years later were still making payments of $38 a month or whatever. We're going through that sort of cycle again. Those $1200 a month mortgage payments a lot of people are making may seem like a joke 30 years from now. Inflation is just some zeros on the end of a figure to a certain degree. The key is making it work in your favor, not the other way around.

 

Yes that is the way many people think it works. The problem with property is that you have taxes and the expenses of insurance and keeping the house plugged in. Its pretty easy to buy a house in down times at low interest rates and end up with way more house than you can really afford in the future. Its tricky. Its like the guy who goes out and gets a great bargin on a twin engine airplane , then discovers he is really maintaining a million dollar plane, beause his parts and labor are at new airplane prices. The secret is not to over buy or over borrow, because energy is not going down, and either is insurance and maintence and materials to keep it up. When you buy it ,, you have to feed it or lose it. I dont see wages going up at the same rate as inflation because our goverment is doing things that is textbook for a major depression. When the state gets tight for money ,, they raise taxes. Goverment never suffers , they have the people to inflict the pain upon.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Yes that is the way many people think it works. The problem with property is that you have taxes and the expenses of insurance and keeping the house plugged in. Its pretty easy to buy a house in down times at low interest rates and end up with way more house than you can really afford in the future. Its tricky.

 

Well, ya you gotta be smart about it. The problem people got into with the "way more house" thing before was betting on the equity going up enough that they could refi before the payments went up on their ARMs. Dumb. Again, slow and steady wins the race. Get a fixed rate mortgage with a payment that fits your budget. Don't gamble on certain things needing to take place in the future or else you screwed. But you're the one predicting crazy inflation in the future. Well, that's gonna mean interest rates going up to 10, 15, 20% if you're right. Time to lock in those 3% rates now.

 

When the state gets tight for money ,, they raise taxes. Goverment never suffers , they have the people to inflict the pain upon.

 

If either your financial future or your peace of mind is dependant upon being afraid about how much property tax rates might go up, then you probably shouldn't be in the real estate game. Stick to renting, if that's the case.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Well, ya you gotta be smart about it. The problem people got into with the "way more house" thing before was betting on the equity going up enough that they could refi before the payments went up on their ARMs. Dumb. Again, slow and steady wins the race. Get a fixed rate mortgage with a payment that fits your budget. Don't gamble on certain things needing to take place in the future or else you screwed. But you're the one predicting crazy inflation in the future. Well, that's gonna mean interest rates going up to 10, 15, 20% if you're right. Time to lock in those 3% rates now.

If either your financial future or your peace of mind is dependant upon being afraid about how much property tax rates might go up, then you probably shouldn't be in the real estate game. Stick to renting, if that's the case.

 

The problem with this economy is that interest rates should be much higher than they are. One of the only reasons why they are not higher is because the fed is playing santa to on obama federal debt. If the rate goes up ,, the USA goes down the tube. We are going to go through a major depression when the the debt sled stops sliding. I see taxes becomming a major issue. I agree with you ,, lockin in now is a good move , but you really have to be very conservative on what you do. I have weathered a lot of storms in the market and during hard times. This one is by far the most troubling. As for risk ,, I know when to take it and when to lay low. For now its keep the sailed reefed down on risk and steer a steady course. How you handle risk all depends on how much you have to loses. Nothing to lose ,, go for it. You aint that far from broke swinging for the fences.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

The problem with this economy is that interest rates should be much higher than they are.

 

Exactly. That's why the people who are going to make money down the road are the ones who take advantage of the low rates today.

 

One of the only reasons why they are not higher is because the fed is playing santa to on obama federal debt.

 

You're suffering from old-man-government-paranoia disease, Tim. You've turned into the old man you probably used to laugh at when you were younger. The people who have made money throughout history are the ones who are smart enough to know it doesn't really matter which party is in office. They make money regardless. At the top of the pyramid, they are the ones who OWN the {censored}ing government.

On the other end of the scale you have those old guys living in trailers listen to the radio all day long who think everything that happens in their life is dependant upon the next election. You can either play the game or get played BY it. The choice is yours. Have fun.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Exactly. That's why the people who are going to make money down the road are the ones who take advantage of the low rates today.

You're suffering from old-man-government-paranoia disease, Tim. You've turned into the old man you probably used to laugh at when you were younger. The people who have made money throughout history are the ones who are smart enough to know it doesn't really matter which party is in office. They make money regardless. At the top of the pyramid, they are the ones who OWN the {censored}ing government.

On the other end of the scale you have those old guys living in trailers listen to the radio all day long who think everything that happens in their life is dependant upon the next election. You can either play the game or get played BY it. The choice is yours. Have fun.

 

I understand where we are as a nation. I prolly have way more chips in the game than you do at your point in life. This is a pretty difficult time to be an investor living off what you can turn in the market. Lots of risk and not much in the way of return. I wish it was as simple as buying a couple houses, but you will find that its not. How much do you think you will need to retire on your own dime as a self employed business guy?

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

I understand where we are as a nation.

 

Actually, I don't think you do. I think you've probably bought into a lot of bull{censored} by good media salesmen and carnival barkers along the way though.

 

This is a pretty difficult time to be an investor living off what you can turn in the market. Lots of risk and not much in the way of return.

 

Really? What markets have you been investing in? The stock market has doubled in the last 4 years. I've had a VERY nice run lately. Sorry if you haven't done as well. Maybe a little less partisan BS might work in your favor?

 

I wish it was as simple as buying a couple houses, but you will find that its not. How much do you think you will need to retire on your own dime as a self employed business guy?

 

The goal is to retire at 65 or so with a paid-off house to live in and $1-2M in other assets. We're on a pretty good path to hit that goal. If we don't or that's not enough? Then that will be what it will be I guess.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

I have never been a fan of popular music. The concept of "aging out" is foreign to me. Even when I was young I always listened to and played older traditional acoustic folk, blues, or alternative music. You don't have to look hard to find many good players/singers of this genre of music. The city I live in has always been pegged as "boring" however that is only by those who do not live here. I can go out any night of the week and find an enjoyable live performance at any number of coffee houses or small pub like venues. Not to mention any of the open mic's, informal Irish music sessions or bluegrass jams that are available to those interested in such.

Good live music is ageless.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Actually, I don't think you do. I think you've probably bought into a lot of bull{censored} by good media salesmen and carnival barkers along the way though.

Really? What markets have you been investing in? The stock market has doubled in the last 4 years. I've had a VERY nice run lately. Sorry if you haven't done as well. Maybe a little less partisan BS might work in your favor?

The goal is to retire at 65 or so with a paid-off house to live in and $1-2M in other assets. We're on a pretty good path to hit that goal. If we don't or that's not enough? Then that will be what it will be I guess.

 

Yea they did double , but they doubled from 6000 dow that was at 14000. This last 4 year run basically just got people back close to even after the big dump. In 15 years one to two million might be a little slim. Its a little slim now, with interest rates so low. The risk vs reward ratio just keeps getting tighter. Our federal goverment is decreasing the value of the dollar at a very rapid pace. You destroy the dollar and you destroy this country. This adm and fed chairman are destroying the dollar and the future of our nation.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Yea they did double , but they doubled from 6000 dow that was at 14000. This last 4 year run basically just got people back close to even after the big dump.

 

Exactly. You have to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. If people were dumb enough to stay with the market during the crash, I don't know what to tell them. It's not like it dumped for 14,000 to 6,000 overnight.

 

In 15 years one to two million might be a little slim. Its a little slim now, with interest rates so low. The risk vs reward ratio just keeps getting tighter. Our federal goverment is decreasing the value of the dollar at a very rapid pace. You destroy the dollar and you destroy this country. This adm and fed chairman are destroying the dollar and the future of our nation.

 

Again, same stuff I've heard for decades. Nothing that people weren't saying in the 70s and very few people didn't come out of all that just fine and even way ahead by the 90s. The key to dealing with inflation is keeping your money in assets that keep up.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Exactly. You have to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. If people were dumb enough to stay with the market during the crash, I don't know what to tell them. It's not like it dumped for 14,000 to 6,000 overnight.

Again, same stuff I've heard for decades. Nothing that people weren't saying in the 70s and very few people didn't come out of all that just fine and even way ahead by the 90s. The key to dealing with inflation is keeping your money in assets that keep up.

 

The problem with the know when to hold them and know when to fold em theory is that typically most major gains in the market are made on just a few day during the year. You do have to be in to get those gains. I have a pretty decent trackrecord at this investment thing and not what you call a new retireee. You havent. Yes you do have to keep your investments in things that keep up , but you also have to move with caution on things that have expenses associated with it that you cant control. In a cash short society like we have , odds are that rent you can charge will be controlled more by what people can pay , rather than what you bought the thing for, or by what you think the rent should be. Renters are typically people who cant afford to buy, unless you go short term rentals. I tend to see a glut of rental property hitting the market. I dont see the expenses to keep it plugged in getting less. I can rent properties down here for much less than it costs the owners who have them paid for to keep. Most rent at a loss. WHile you are working , the depreciation is nice. After you retire , not so much so.

[race81]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Exactly. You have to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. If people were dumb enough to stay with the market during the crash, I don't know what to tell them. It's not like it dumped for 14,000 to 6,000 overnight.

 

Some of us who lost thousands....had no choice but to leave money there. Most employer run 401's will not let you remove your money when you expect the market to go down the tubes. I lost nearly 10g when the market dumped a few years back, and just now is it back up to where it was then................I dont contribute to anything I dont have control over anymore.

Aging out.............funny reading the replies to this. For many years I played in a country music opry setting. Made very good money doing so for nearly 15 years. Somewhere near the last three years the crowds started to dwindle. Thought we were doing something wrong, but then come to realize our audience was dying off.....sad..but true story.